CharGen: Point buy or 4D6 and take three best dice?

[Black_Zawisza]

Which do the Giants In The Playground prefer, and why? I dislike the dice roll system for two reasons: 1) The average stat will be a 10.5, while COMMONERS have average scores of 10. Assuming you roll slightly above average or worse (and don't fudge the numbers ), you won't have ANY positive ability modifiers. Suck. And 2) it seems only fair to me to start everyone on an even playing field. I hate how so much of the game can be determined by that single dice roll right at the beginning.

EDIT: Right, forgot that taking the three highest dice increases the average. Not by much, though.

[Morithias]

Which do the Giants In The Playground prefer, and why? I dislike the dice roll system for two reasons: 1) The average stat will be a 10.5, while COMMONERS have average scores of 10. Assuming you roll slightly above average or worse (and don't fudge the numbers ), you won't have ANY positive ability modifiers. Suck. And 2) it seems only fair to me to start everyone on an even playing field. I hate how so much of the game can be determined by that single dice roll right at the beginning.

The PC's aren't suppose to be 'average' if they were normal people, they wouldn't be randomly risky their lives on something most people would never even consider.

It's hard convincing people to even consider the profession skill now, trying to make everyone average and having them play the 'normal people' for a whole camp would be the equivalent of DM suicide.

[Tyndmyr]

The latter one is the main reason I use point buy. I can design a roll system that'll get me stats around whatever average I want...but all a roll system adds is variability in the starting stats.

I don't particularly want people to have advantages or disadvantages based solely on initial luck. So, point buy it is.

[Kylarra]

I usually offer rolling in order or pointbuy as a backup if your initial scores are too low. It's been so long since I've played a game with stats like that though.

[The-Mage-King]

Roll 5d6b3. That ups the average a bit.

And, if I do use PB, I won't go under 32. I like my characters nice and strong...

[Black_Zawisza]

I also prefer point-buy because it's far better for min/maxing. Lots of classes are mostly dependent on only one or two scores, and it's far better to have those maxed out than to have 14 across the board.

My DM, sadly, seems to prefer the dice roll method...

[Rixx]

The average of 3d6 is 10.5. 4d6 drop lowest is higher.

I think a lot of players are addicted to high stats.

[Jallorn]

I was under the impression that the average of 3d6 was 12...

Well anyway, the roll system is supposed to produce an average of 12 for the heroes, although I can't recall if they meant 3d6 or 4d6b3.

Plus, you can reroll if you have a net modifier of 0 or lower.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Faced with the choice of 4d6b3 or 18 point buy, I would take dice rolling without hesitation for almost any character concept. For most concepts, though, the certainty from 25 pb is better than the average gain from dice rolling, and higher pbs are gravy. That said, after rolling up (good) 32 and 33 point buy equivalent lines for a character and backup character in a 3.5 game, I can't complain about my own experiences with randomness.

[Tyndmyr]

I also prefer point-buy because it's far better for min/maxing. Lots of classes are mostly dependent on only one or two scores, and it's far better to have those maxed out than to have 14 across the board.

My DM, sadly, seems to prefer the dice roll method...

Eh, if they let you allocate the scores, dice roll is pretty good for min-maxing, unless you're just unlucky. After all, the only thing better than putting dump stats where they wont matter is not having dump stats.

Last time I we used 4d6b3, I had no stats under 13...and another player had two 14s, two 16s, and two 18s. The others were not so lucky, by a significant margin.

One other fringe benefit of point buy is that you can have players whip up their chars at home, without any suspicion of if they really did pull off that amazingly lucky roll.

[Swordgleam]

Rolling for a one-shot, point buy for anything longer. Although I rolled absurdly good stats for the SWSE game I'm in, so I might have to reconsider - I acknowledge that most of my bias against rolling is because I usually roll lousy.

I've seen a lot of interesting ways of rolling. I've seen roll 4d6 7 times, drop lowest of the seven and lowest each roll. I've seen 4d6 drop lowest reroll ones. My very first group had a choice of 4d6 drop lowest, and roll 5d6 in order drop lowest two. I still ended up with a Dex of 5.

[RufusCorvus]

I find myself disliking both systems. Rolling is too random and might lead to players starting on an uneven keel. But then point buy lends itself to being too inorganic. But between the two, I'll take point buy.

Yes, I'm kind of hard to please.

[Xuc Xac]

I find myself disliking both systems. Rolling is too random and might lead to players starting on an uneven keel. But then point buy lends itself to being too inorganic. But between the two, I'll take point buy.

Try making characters as a group. Roll one set of 6 numbers and then every PC will arrange those same 6 numbers in the order they want for their stats. It's random, but no one gets a better roll than anyone else.

[Dark_Nohn]

I've tried experimenting with these as a DM, and as far as it goes, probably the best way I've found is 8+1d10 or 6+1d12 for slightly tougher odds. This usually results in stat arrays that are good for most players, (2 stats heroic good, 2 stats heroic average, 2 stats heroic poor.)
For PbP though, there is no option except point buy.

[ranagrande]

Try making characters as a group. Roll one set of 6 numbers and then every PC will arrange those same 6 numbers in the order they want for their stats. It's random, but no one gets a better roll than anyone else.

Something similar that I have done before is where the players each roll a set of stats and then choose which set they want to use, the one they rolled or any of the others.

[Xuc Xac]

The PC's aren't suppose to be 'average' if they were normal people, they wouldn't be randomly risky their lives on something most people would never even consider.

So you're saying PCs should all have below average Wisdom scores?

[RufusCorvus]

Try making characters as a group. Roll one set of 6 numbers and then every PC will arrange those same 6 numbers in the order they want for their stats. It's random, but no one gets a better roll than anyone else.

That was a thought I've had and seen lots of places. Sort of a "pick your own array."

[kyoryu]

I think it depends on the game. The more the game tends towards "PCs are special snowflakes that will never die," the more point-buy is appropriate. The more the game tends towards "The world is grimdark place and PCs will die left and right," the more random generation works.

[Ravens_cry]

If I have a specific concept in mind, I prefer the predictability of point buy.

[Kaldrin]

We roll the points in the point buy.

[dsmiles]

The more the game tends towards "The world is grimdark place and PCs will die left and right," the more random generation works.

This is exactly why my group rolls. Usually 4d6 keep the best 3, but occasionally 3d6 in order (just for extra grim darkness).

[Amphetryon]

Try making characters as a group. Roll one set of 6 numbers and then every PC will arrange those same 6 numbers in the order they want for their stats. It's random, but no one gets a better roll than anyone else.

We did this. Enjoy 16 15 14 12 10 4....

[Raimun]

I've been thinking about 4D6-b3 and after the players have decided how to allocate their dice rolls, tell them to upgrade the stat they left the lowest to 18!

That would be a surprise. Genius Fighters, Charismatic Barbarians, cat-like Clerics and totally ripped Wizards.

Though few would be wise as Gandalf and even fewer would get those +4 hp per level. I think this would work at least once.

[Emmerask]

The average of 3d6 is 10.5. 4d6 drop lowest is higher.

I think a lot of players are addicted to high stats.

to be precise with 4d6b3 the avg stat is 13

I was under the impression that the average of 3d6 was 12...

Not really, 3.5 is the avg for 1d6; 3d7 would be 12


We use 3d6b4 with 3 sets which worked quite nicely.

[The Glyphstone]

I've been thinking about 4D6-b3 and after the players have decided how to allocate their dice rolls, tell them to upgrade the stat they left the lowest to 18!

That would be a surprise. Genius Fighters, Charismatic Barbarians, cat-like Clerics and totally ripped Wizards.

Though few would be wise as Gandalf and even fewer would get those +4 hp per level. I think this would work at least once.

That would be funny indeed.

[Tyndmyr]

I've been thinking about 4D6-b3 and after the players have decided how to allocate their dice rolls, tell them to upgrade the stat they left the lowest to 18!

That would be a surprise. Genius Fighters, Charismatic Barbarians, cat-like Clerics and totally ripped Wizards.

Though few would be wise as Gandalf and even fewer would get those +4 hp per level. I think this would work at least once.

This'd be amusing for a few minutes, until the wizard realizes that 5 in int dooms him.

Time to suicide!

[Emmerask]

This'd be amusing for a few minutes, until the wizard realizes that 5 in int dooms him.

Time to suicide!

Did I misunderstand the idea?
I was under the impression that nothing changes but the lowest stat gets boosted to 18? so why would the wizard put 5 in int in the first place?

/edit or did you mean the second time where the dm doesn´t do the boost?

[Tyndmyr]

Did I misunderstand the idea?
I was under the impression that nothing changes but the lowest stat gets boosted to 18? so why would the wizard put 5 in int in the first place?

Oh, I misunderstood, I assumed that it was a reversal of order.

No, in that case, it's just hilariously good fun. Not a bad idea, actually.

[Kaldrin]

I think a lot of players are addicted to high stats.

I don't think Stats are as meaningful as people make them up to be. Every two stat increases equals a 5% bonus to a roll. Mid and late game that's not really that big of a deal. We've done the experiment by giving all classes all 18s. Was easier until about level 5 and then it became normalized.

[Emmerask]

Oh, I misunderstood, I assumed that it was a reversal of order.

No, in that case, it's just hilariously good fun. Not a bad idea, actually.

Yeah I like it quite a lot too