What to do with an honestly dumb player?

[TaliaJacta]

When I joined a D&D campaign in college three years ago, my friends and I encouraged my then-roommate (we'll call her Roomie) to join us, because we wanted to convert her to geekiness and we needed another player.
Now, we've been through several games, and Roomie still hasn't learned the mechanics of the game. She learns a single attack for whatever character she's playing, uses that same attack without variation for the entire campaign, and has to ask our mutual friend for help if she needs to do anything else...even things like skill checks. It's not that she's willfully being dense; I believe she just can't wrap her mind around the idea of the game. She keeps playing because it's a social activity for her, but her obtuseness is making the game less enjoyable for everyone. I'm the DM for our current campaign, so I've been hearing it from the other players.

I don't want to kick Roomie out of the game; besides the fact that she's my friend, this is a small school, and animosity has a way of spreading. But I can't keep accommodating her slow learning curve. The rest of the group wants to convert our current campaign from 4e to 3.5, but I'm making them wait because it would mean trying to teach Roomie (who always plays clerics) the 3.5 spellcasting system.

I'm really at a loss. Has anyone had similar experiences? How did you resolve it?

Edited because I fail at syntax.

[Tyndmyr]

You mean to 3.5 from 4 or vice versa?

Well...Im gonna suggest a lighter rules system. It won't entirely fix the problem, but any D&D system is harder to grok mechanically at a glance than most, because they just have a lot of rules.

[Kylarra]

Well if they do mean going to 4e from 3.5 which the text says but the reason doesn't, then power cards are a suggestion.

[Sipex]

I have a player like this and we play 4th edition. She's a fighter. She's also dating the party rogue and would probably result in him dropping if we kicked her out so we have to adjust other ways.

My recommendation is to make things as easy as possible for her, our player picked up some 4th edition power cards for her character so she knows exactly what her powers are at all times. In addition, we run mini training sessions for her when time is convenient. Something along the lines of "Okay, I want you to use <Power> what do you need to roll?".

Unfortunately, she needs to come to terms with the fact that she needs help to figure out what to do first. If she's not willing to acknowledge the fact that she's slower than the rest of the group she won't want to improve.

[TaliaJacta]

You mean to 3.5 from 4 or vice versa?

4e TO 3.5. Sorry; momentary fail in syntax.

[Sipex]

I then would recommend explaning the spell system to her and, afterwards when she looks confused say: "Yeah, it's really complex and crazy, I prefer to just use a fighter instead." and see if she bites.

[Oracle_Hunter]

She may not be dumb - she may simply be uninterested.

Specifically, she's uninterested in learning the intricities of a combat system because the game isn't about combat for her. In fact, I suspect she may like playing Clerics because of the fluff that is implied, not because of any mechanics.

You can't force someone to become interested in mechanics; ask her why she plays the way she does and you might learn a lot.

If it turns out she is purely interested in RP it would probably be better to have her guest-run NPCs instead of trying to force her to care about aspects of the game that everyone else enjoys.

[mucat]

Why call her dumb? Sounds like she's just not interested in the game mechanics...so don't make her bother with them.

Ask her what she wants her character to do, and either roll the dice for her or have one of the other players hand her the appropriate dice and tell her what she's rolling against. The other player will have to know both the rules and the roomie's character very well, but if roomie is otherwise fun to game with, someone should be willing to take that role. Just don't make it seem judgmental. Don't say "we're taking mechanics out of your hand," but whenever she suggests something that's not her standard "one-size-fits-all" attack, have her mentor ready to step in and say "Great idea! Here's how you do it."

Same with the magic system, if she converts to 3.5e. Before the game, tell her a half-dozen or so varies and interesting things her spells can do, besides simple healing, and let her decide how to use them as she plays. Her friend worries about range and duration, and tells her what to roll. "Cool! Only thing is, you'll need to move about 20 feet closer first. You've got time to do that this round; do you want to?"

If she likes this style of play, then she'll probably start using a lot more creativity in her actions since she knows she's allowed to try something even if she doesn't know the rules for it.

[Comet]

Is she having fun even if she has to ask for help to do everything combat related?
Are the other players OK with helping her out, sort of co-piloting her character?

Unless the answer is no, I don't see a problem, or at least a serious one. One of the people I GM'd for was like this, too. Some people just aren't interested in rolling and calculating and stuff. They just want to declare their actions and then see some results.

So, unless you want to kick her out, there's nothing to do but to let her hang along as she has done up until now. She can still contribute to everything that doesn't require rolling and such and you guys can help her out when combat rolls around. Just introduce a good balance of encounters that require rolling the dice and encounters that are just about talking and narrating stuff.

Who knows, she might eventually understand the basics of the rules one day if she keeps at it. Until then, just keep things simple and ensure that she is having fun without it affecting the fun of everyone else.

[Saya]

If possible, you might want to try writing out some kind of mechanics cheat sheet for her

Also, has she ever read the player's handbook? Because personally I have found that if I haven't read about how something is done, and rather someone tells me how to do it, I tend to forget every once in awhile how/what it does.

[kalkyrie]

There are 3.5e characters which are simpler than 4e ones.
Thinking something like a Barbarian with Pounce. She can be a great help to the party (and feel needed) by taking one action. (Pounce -> Full Attack)
Warlocks should work in a similar manner.

Though I suggest you write her character sheet in any case- put down her standard attack routine, etc.

Regarding the cleric preference, what does she normally do as a cleric?
If it's heal, then simply giving her a spell list which is "CLW x 3, CMW x3, CSW x2..." might work.
As would giving her passive abilities (like the Dragon Shaman healing aura). Then everyone else can calculate the benefit for her. Less hassle for her.

Bear in mind as the DM you aren't limited to the printed classes.
Ask her what type of character she would like to play, and make up a class for it.

The class doesn't have to be balanced (she's not going to be powergaming!), so you can give it one very powerful at will ability.
You can even give the class a broken power like at-will illusions, or at-will create objects. No rule knowledge needed to use, but will reward her thinking up cool ways of using the power.

In general, knowing the rules isn't necessary for any system, with help from the DM.
Get her to think up something cool for her character to do, then roll a dice.
If the dice is a high number, then she succeeds.
If it is a low number, she misses, or she succeeds with a drawback.

[Greenish]

If she wants to play a cleric in 3.5, I suggest using the spontaneous variant (UA/SRD), in addition to Conjob's suggestion.

Helping her figure out the spells each level instead of each morning makes it easier for people helping her, and being able to consistently procure the same effects makes it easier for her to figure what to do.

[TaliaJacta]

She doesn't really seem like she's having fun; we're all at a loss to figure out why she wanted to join this game at all. (We only dragged her to the first campaign--this is two DMs later.) And she doesn't RP; she zones out until it's her turn in combat, does her attack, and then zones out again. She doesn't appear to have thought about her character at all.

[Greenish]

She doesn't really seem like she's having fun; we're all at a loss to figure out why she wanted to join this game at all.

Ask her.

[Oracle_Hunter]

She doesn't really seem like she's having fun; we're all at a loss to figure out why she wanted to join this game at all. (We only dragged her to the first campaign--this is two DMs later.) And she doesn't RP; she zones out until it's her turn in combat, does her attack, and then zones out again. She doesn't appear to have thought about her character at all.

Um... you should ask her what's up. Bad comes to worst, she says "nothing" - but at least she knows that y'all care about her enjoyment.

Also, be sure to note that you wouldn't be offended if she drops. Not all games are for everyone; if she's not having fun with your play style then it's probably bettter for her to find something else to do rather than mope around.

[Starbuck_II]

I suggest Warlock:

It has Eldritch blast to spam (if she wants one ability).

She can than augment her blast with essence/shape invocations.
Or
Additional abilties (Spider Climb, Summon swarm, etc).

[mucat]

She doesn't really seem like she's having fun; we're all at a loss to figure out why she wanted to join this game at all. (We only dragged her to the first campaign--this is two DMs later.) And she doesn't RP; she zones out until it's her turn in combat, does her attack, and then zones out again. She doesn't appear to have thought about her character at all.

Ah, that sounds like more of a problem. I misunderstood you at first, and thought she liked the game but was bored with the mechanics.

If she just likes the people there and wants to hang out with them, does the same group get together for anything else? She might have more fun at Scrabble night, watching movies, or just going out and hitting the town. It sounds like she doesn't really want to be part of the game...but it would be nice to give her a way to just start doing different things with the group, rather than feeling like she'll be cut off from it if she doesn't like D&D.

Of course, if the campaign is the only time that bunch of people get together, that makes it harder...

[Sipex]

Oh, yeah, it really sounds like she doesn't want to be there then.

Maybe encourage her to join a club or something?

[Kylarra]

I agree with other people. It sounds like she is mostly doing it as a social thing to do with you guys, rather than any actual interest in the game.

[PlzBreakMyCmpAn]

She won't be able to keep up with 3.5. 4e is like the pokemon version of Magic the Gathering; its really hard to go down but easy to go up. Besides DnD isn't for the faint of intellect. You're going to have to brute force it - aka give it time and repetition.

[ericgrau]

I'm going to second power cards. I had some and used candies to track my encounter and daily powers. Burn a power eat the candy.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

I'm going to second the notion that you should talk to your roomie and ask what she gets out of the game. If she really is only there to socialize, make her character using the 4e NPC rules. She describes what she wants to do, and you adjudicate/make all the rolls. Simple for both of you. Note that this would not work in 3e.

If you don't want an awkward conversation, I suggest a minor experiment. On one gaming night, play a nice light-hearted game of Risus, and see if roomie gets into the game more with the super-simple mechanics. If she does, maybe rules-light systems are the solution. If she doesn't, then she's probably just uninterested in rpgs, and there's not much you can do.

Edit: I'll also second the notion that she's probably not dense, just uninterested.

[Zeofar]

Somehow, this reminds me so much of my sister, I can't even believe it... If I ever could get her interested in any sort of game, she usually got stuck on auto after a while or quit in frustration. The exception of this, in my experience, has been the Sims 2, Guild Wars, and the Shining Force games.

The primary difference from other things she's tried? Character building with an aesthetic element. If the two are the same at all, give her some kind of way to create her character's appearance and she should have greater interest. Then, try to get her into roleplay, and by this, I don't mean character development and considering what her character would do based on her motivations, but just get her to think within the game world. Also, give her some time before she has to have the character ready to play. Tell her the setting a month or two ahead of time, and tell her to come up with a character concept. Show her artwork pertaining to non-cleric classes, and see if she'll like something else.

As for a generic solution based on what you've said, don't show her the Cleric at all; just act like Favored Soul is the exact same thing in 3.5. This will make everything much easier for everyone, and won't lead to anyone being upset that she didn't prepare the right spells. Unless she is a strong purist and really feels the need to play a Cleric, she probably won't mind even if she finds out, but I'd avoid giving the option, since it will probably lead to confusion and frustration regardless of what she goes with. Go with gradual learning. Don't give her a player's handbook. Just show her the class she wants, fill out a sheet for her, and show her the appropriate parts of the handbook and sheet when it becomes necessary. (Alternatively, if this is what you have done in the past, it might be the wrong solution. Try the opposite if possible.)

I'll also add that sometimes 4e powers are much more complicated and wordy while being fluff-lite, and it is quite likely 3.5 will be easier. 3.5 has a greater focus on what the character does in-game, which, even for veterans, is much easier to understand than how it works mechanically.

In the end, it might just be that this isn't the right kind of game for her. I can't really tell you what would be for sure, though.

Edit: This might also sound absolutely ridiculous, but let her have a stab at being the DM or creating the game world. It may be the sense of control over what is going that she is missing. However, you'll may still be helping her with mechanics quite a bit, so it could be troublesome anyways. Don't say anything if a monster has some kind of ability that it isn't supposed to, as long as you can convince her later on that it doesn't have one that it should that she doesn't care about (something passive, perhaps. Just don't remind her of it, unless the fight it going really bad for her, because the whole thing will probably turn out pretty oppositional).

[Reluctance]

What sort of social outlets does the ex-roomie have? If she keeps gaming in spite of it not doing anything for her, that's probably her needing to be introduced to other social outlets. Acknowledge that you're happy to hang out with her in other venues, and the problem should self-correct when her Friday (or whatever) nights have competing plans.

If she likes the group but doesn't like the gaming, set aside time before the game for food and socializing. Again, be upfront; she's welcome for pizza and kibbitzing, you won't take it personally if the actual game part isn't up her alley. (Something like this might also work if she keeps coming because she feels it would be rude to quit. Politeness is good, but sometimes it can be taken to silly levels.)

Or does she light up when it's time to interact only to glaze over when the dice come out? I've known plenty of players who enjoy in character stuff but hate the mechanics. This may lead to irreconcilable differences - D&D tends to have lots of crunchy stuff by its very nature - but I'm sure there are mechanically easier characters you can lump cleric fluff on. Keeping her happy would require staying mechanics light, which might not jive well with the rest of the group.

Ultimately, the question is what keeps her coming back. Find that out, solutions should be much more self evident.

[Cespenar]

She doesn't really seem like she's having fun; we're all at a loss to figure out why she wanted to join this game at all. (We only dragged her to the first campaign--this is two DMs later.) And she doesn't RP; she zones out until it's her turn in combat, does her attack, and then zones out again. She doesn't appear to have thought about her character at all.

Ask her.

What a novel idea.

Seriously though, do this.

[AslanCross]

I'd go with asking her if she really wants to continue staying. Don't say "Because it's making it less fun for us"---instead say "Doesn't seem like you're having fun." If she zones out, it looks like she's not really enjoying it enough to care about it.

[Jornophelanthas]

She doesn't really seem like she's having fun; we're all at a loss to figure out why she wanted to join this game at all. (We only dragged her to the first campaign--this is two DMs later.) And she doesn't RP; she zones out until it's her turn in combat, does her attack, and then zones out again. She doesn't appear to have thought about her character at all.

While reading this, a somewhat random thought just popped into my head. What if this roommate is romantically interested in one of the other people? and this zoning out is daydreaming about this special person? People put up (half-heartedly) with all kinds of things for love.

Of course, I am just guessing here. I could be wildly wrong, but maybe the thought is worth two cents.

[avr]

If she wants to keep with it, ask her what she's enjoyed most in the game. It might tell you nothing, but there again it might tell you what can be done to get her more involved.

[PopcornMage]

Take a break from RPGs and break out a board game/card game instead.

This is a social issue more than anything else.

[Rasman]

since you're in college and obviously smart people, and hopefully mature about it, I'd just sit down with her and either teacher though solo encounters, something fairly simple and something you could even reward her in your current campaign for OR she can learn to play the big dumb fighter

I mostly try to keep our dumb players on a leash...literally, I'm going to start using rope to keep them from doing stupid things...kinda like a kiddie safety line