Most effective way to utilize the scythe?

[Calintares]

I want to use scythes as the weapon of choise for a cult due to flavour. How ought they to use them in order to get the most out of the weapon and be a real challenge for the PCs?

What I'm looking for are:

magical properties
special materials
feats
fighting styles from ToB possibly

[Spiryt]

Most effective way to utilize the scythe?

I tried not to do it, but I lost... % - )

[DeltaEmil]

Don't overdo it. Scythes are one of the supergood weapons, having a x4 damage multiplier when making a critical hit, and they can be used to trip others without the need for the Improved Trip feat.

Your players will be cautious fighting scythe-wielding cultists, because a few critical hits will outright kill them. And game moderators will roll enough criticals for sure.

Now, having said that, bursts are kinda brutal when applied on scythes, and having a bunch of mooks tripping your player characters can ruin their day. And of course, the leader-scythe-wielder could be a large creature with a large scythe, having a 10 ft. reach, 2d6 damage (x4 when doing a critical hit) and being able to trip with its greater strength to emphasize how dangerous those cultists are.

[huttj509]

Ambush pc while sleeping.

Coup de Grace

Or hey, depending on level the party could just encounter the cultists sacrificing someone with a scythe (and a CDG), when you roll that damage from the autocrit they'll be running.


In general though, scythes can be tricky. Their main benefit is their crit. With no strength/enhancement bonus, at low levels a crit is (2.5*2*4) 20 average damage, with a range of 8-32. If you have the PCs going up against a number of scythe wielders, there WILL be a crit that simply downs someone, no save, no SR. Remember that the PCs are subject to a lot more attacks than any individual opponent.

That said, if you want to be deadly, look for stuff to increase crit range, and/or force crits. Lots of those attacks, and while normal hits might not be as shiny the crits will slay.

[PopcornMage]

I tried not to do it, but I lost... % - )

Um, no.

What you do is take the scythe to the guy with the mower.

[Prime32]

Render enemies helpless somehow, then use coup de grace to auto-crit.

Ending Blow lets you coup de grace as a standard action, while there's a feat in Pathfinder which lets you CDG cowering opponents(!)

[Foryn Gilnith]

If all else fails, the scythe is a two-handed weapon, and more than adequate for a generic power attacker.

[Duke of URL]

Yeah, the way to make scythes effective are to increase their critical threat range. That x4 multiplier is essentially the weapon's "special feature" (though the trip bonus doesn't hurt either, it's not unique to the scythe). Keen or Improved Critical plus Power Critical to confirm the crits will help (or spells/properties that auto-confirm criticals) -- any of the weapon properties that do extra damage or other nasty things on a critical hit makes scythe wielders extra dangerous.

What you get are enemies that may not hit all that hard most of the time, but once in a while land a huge shot. That should put the fear of (insert deity here) into your player's for their safety and well-being, as you could rapidly get into massive damage rules (if you use them) or take them down so far into the negatives that they're killed outright.

[Stephen_E]

Don't overdo it. Scythes are one of the supergood weapons, having a x4 damage multiplier when making a critical hit, and they can be used to trip others without the need for the Improved Trip feat.

This is incorrect.

Scythes are one of the weapons you can trip with, which is of note because you can't trip with most weapons, and if you get tripped back you can drop the weapon to avoid getting tripped. But you are still required to have Improved Trip if you wish to attempt to trip someone without triggering an AOO.

Scythes are the most lethal of NPC weapons because if a critical occurs and the weilder has a high damage bonus you are looking at auto-death category. 40+ pts of damage in a single hit can take a PC straight from alive and fighting to dead, without stopping at "low on hit points" or "down and bleeding".

I would recommend against having it as a NPC weapon unless you want to increase the rate of PC deaths.

Stephen E

[senrath]

This is incorrect.

Scythes are one of the weapons you can trip with, which is of note because you can't trip with most weapons, and if you get tripped back you can drop the weapon to avoid getting tripped. But you are still required to have Improved Trip if you wish to attempt to trip someone without triggering an AOO.

No, he has it right.

Tripping with a Weapon

Some weapons can be used to make trip attacks. In this case, you make a melee touch attack with the weapon instead of an unarmed melee touch attack, and you don’t provoke an attack of opportunity.

[panaikhan]

Magical properties: Sharpness or Keen

Special Materials: I'm sure there's a greenish metal that poisons the blow, but I don't have my books to hand.

Do scythes have reach? If so, have a bunch of 'harriers' with shields protect the wielders.

[Stephen_E]

No, he has it right.

Thank you.
I should have checked the SRD.

Apologies DeltaEmil.

Stephen E

[dsmiles]

Magical properties: Sharpness or Keen

Special Materials: I'm sure there's a greenish metal that poisons the blow, but I don't have my books to hand.

Do scythes have reach? If so, have a bunch of 'harriers' with shields protect the wielders.

Keen with a burst property. That's the way to go.

Nope, no reach, though.

[PopcornMage]

It should be whirlwind flavored.

[Greenish]

Do scythes have reach? If so, have a bunch of 'harriers' with shields protect the wielders.

Pre-errata Talenta Sharrash (ECS) was basically a scythe with reach (and 19-20 crit range).

[Coidzor]

Magical properties: Sharpness or Keen

Special Materials: I'm sure there's a greenish metal that poisons the blow, but I don't have my books to hand.

Do scythes have reach? If so, have a bunch of 'harriers' with shields protect the wielders.

Gehennan Morghuth-Iron(source: Arms and Equipment Guide)

From Gehenna, penalty to attack and damage but it deals dexterity damage poison. Relatively minor poison though.

[dsmiles]

Gehennan Morghuth-Iron(source: Arms and Equipment Guide)

From Gehenna, penalty to attack and damage but it deals dexterity damage poison. Relatively minor poison though.

I wanted to say 'Baatorian Green Steel" from BoVD, but couldn't remember anything other than the name.

[Coidzor]

I wanted to say 'Baatorian Green Steel" from BoVD, but couldn't remember anything other than the name.

Me too, but I looked it up and Baatorian Green Steel just adds a +1 enhancement bonus to damage. for 2000 gp.

So it has no actual advantage versus a +1 magical weapon. Unless it factors in the cost for masterworking it into the cost for the material like most special materials so the magical weapon costs 300 more but also penetrates DR/magic so... yeah...

[Duke of URL]

Gehennan Morghuth-Iron(source: Arms and Equipment Guide)

From Gehenna, penalty to attack and damage but it deals dexterity damage poison. Relatively minor poison though.

Yeah, you don't want any minuses to damage. Every -1 turns into -4 on a crit.

[Telonius]

Ideally, wielded by a Lich Paladin of Tyranny (preferred that his mount is a white horse). Thinaun (CWar) Keen Vorpal, and the Paladin's cast the evil version of Bless Weapon.

[Cog]

So it has no actual advantage versus a +1 magical weapon.

If it's a flat cost as listed, then you can get that +1 for cheaper than a normal +1 if the weapon has already been enhanced further.

[Greenish]

If it's a flat cost as listed, then you can get that +1 for cheaper than a normal +1 if the weapon has already been enhanced further.

Enhancement bonuses do not stack.

[lsfreak]

Keen with a burst property. That's the way to go.

Nope, no reach, though.

Not burst. Get Collision. It averages out to the same damage on a crit (20), but more damage on non-crits (flat 5 versus 3.5average) and isn't affected by energy resistance.

I tried not to do it, but I lost... % - )

I've become the same way

[Emmerask]

Not burst. Get Collision. It averages out to the same damage on a crit (20), but more damage on non-crits (flat 5 versus 3.5average) and isn't affected by energy resistance.


I've become the same way

Just take Sonic burst nearly no one has sonic resistance

[lsfreak]

Just take Sonic burst nearly no one has sonic resistance

But... screaming burst is even less damage! (1d4/3d8 vs 1d6/3d10 vs 5/20).

[Emmerask]

But... screaming burst is even less damage! (1d4/3d8 vs 1d6/3d10 vs 5/20).

for the most part it was a reference to one of the earlier oots comicstrips

[Stephen_E]

A horde of Ogres weilding Large +1 Keen Scythes.

If they Crit a PC is going down in a big way.
(+7 Str +1 Weapon) = 8x4= 32 + 4x2d6
Average 60pts of damage.

And if the PCs win and get the weapons they are almost impossible to sell unless you have Artificers in your campaign.

I don't advise going them Power Attack and Warchanter leader unless you wish to TPK.

Stephen E

[Person_Man]

The vast majority of feats and builds that rely on critical hits of any kind are not worth it, in that the return on investment is quite poor.

A noteworthy exception are Bodyfeeder and Mindfeeder weapons, which can be used to "power up" before combat by coup de gracing a small animal (summon one if you need to). Then you can can put away your scythe, and take out a (far more effective) weapon with reach.

[dsmiles]

The vast majority of feats and builds that rely on critical hits of any kind are not worth it, in that the return on investment is quite poor.

A noteworthy exception are Bodyfeeder and Mindfeeder weapons, which can be used to "power up" before combat by coup de gracing a small animal (summon one if you need to). Then you can can put away your scythe, and take out a (far more effective) weapon with reach.

Agreed. For me, the scythe was a flavor weapon, as it fit the character's concept better than other weapons. As a former grain farmer, he was comfortable with weapons that were directly derived from farm implements. The choices basically boiled down to: scythe, sickle, certain polearms, and flail. Tough choice there, huh?

[Duke of URL]

Agreed. For me, the scythe was a flavor weapon, as it fit the character's concept better than other weapons. As a former grain farmer, he was comfortable with weapons that were directly derived from farm implements. The choices basically boiled down to: scythe, sickle, certain polearms, and flail. Tough choice there, huh?

I had a Neverwinter Nights character like that -- he focused on scythe (eventually going into Weapon Master) but his back-up weapon was a heavy flail, in case he needed to deal bludgeoning damage.