Help with my Gestalt Cleric/Crusader?

[gallagher]

So i will be playing in a City of the Spider Queen campaign pretty soon. the DM is giving us full gestalt and 1.5*WBL (so 73,500 gp) for this one, with the understanding that the creatures are going to be a bit toughter on us. we start at level 10

i am going to be a Cleric 6/Radiant Servant of Pelor 4//Paladin of Freedom 2/Crusader 8. it has been a long time since i have played a cleric, and have never played a crusaader before, but i am excited to do so!

what spells and maneuvers should i be taking? also, what are good feats for this build? i am thinking of going with Human as my race and buying a collar of umbral darkness (the permanent one for 22k). i dont know what other gear i need.

really i need some build advice, i am definitely filling the healing role well with this class structure, and will be a high CHA full BAB class with persisted buffs on myself so i can also fill the party's frontliner role with the correct gear, attributes, and planning.

i also do not know which of the domains i should take outside of sun.

EDIT: Also, here is the character sheet

[Roog]

Don't you mean Gestalt Cloistered Cleric/Crusader?

[gallagher]

Don't you mean Gestalt Cloistered Cleric/Crusader?

i can roll with a cloistered cleric. i just dont know if the DM will approve of it. i had to fight tooth and nail to get crusader permitted (my character is going to be this mercenary for good style of character). i have never been in a game with him where there was a cloistered cleric.

[gallagher]

i guess the big thing is that i have so much money that i dont know what all to buy, and i would also like advice on how to properly play a crusader. it is important that i can fill a secondary melee role (and possibly a primary melee role) while being a devoted healer. that means i need:

Persistant spell
Divine Metamagic
Combat Expertise
Improved Trip
Knockdown

at human level 10, i have 4 feats. with the stance that lets all of my threatened area be difficult terrain, is there any way to make full use of that without doing the knockdown tree? i would like to make that be effective from the start.

i have my spells pretty much down. if i can go cloistered cleric i will be using knowledge devotion, plus getting full use of the sun and heal domains.

i dont think i want to be going with the reach weapon+armor spikes route, but instead a heavy mace. this is thematic entirely, and i can be easily convinced to go another route if someone can convince me otherwise.

and after my collar of umbral darkness, i have about 51000 gp to spend.

TL;DR... i need help with maneuvers and stances for my crusader, i need some feat selection advice, and i need help spending money.

consider this as a Cloistered Cleric 6/RSoP4//Paladin of Freedom 2/Crusader8

[Eldariel]

Honestly, reach weapon makes Thicket of Blades work. It does not make all area around you difficult terrain; it makes all movement (including 5' steps, tumbling, spring attacking, etc.) provoke! That's way better. You want a reach weapon.

And if that's a lynchpoint, you could dip some Monk/UA SS (mayhap over Paladin?) to get Unarmed Strike. That would allow you to threaten area around you with kicks and the area further away with a Guisarme/Glaive/whatever reach weapon you wield. Note that Guisarme can Trip as can Unarmed Strike so you'd be fine without Knock-Down in that regard. Monk would probably be better since it can pick you up some of the feats you need, most notably Improved Trip, without having to meet the prerequisites. This combined with Cleric Domains granting some feats (notably Extend Spell from Planning-domain assuming you can wing it) would help you with your feat starvedness and allow you to function with less than 13 Int (since you'll be MAD as all hell otherwise). You could handle alignment issues with alignment shift (Monk doesn't lose abilities for becoming Neutral Good) after the two levels. Heck, you could take Combat Reflexes for level 1 and Improved Trip for 2.


Also, you'll need Extend Spell to qualify for Persistent Spell. You can get that from Planning-domain as I touched upon. Persisting Positive Energy Aura, Mass Lesser Vigor or Vigorous Circle is a great way to take care of healing over time. Your maneuvers are great for healing in combat, as you get to deal damage while also healing.

[gallagher]

Honestly, reach weapon makes Thicket of Blades work. It does not make all area around you difficult terrain; it makes all movement (including 5' steps, tumbling, spring attacking, etc.) provoke! That's way better. You want a reach weapon.

And if that's a lynchpoint, you could dip some Monk/UA SS (mayhap over Paladin?) to get Unarmed Strike. That would allow you to threaten area around you with kicks and the area further away with a Guisarme/Glaive/whatever reach weapon you wield. Note that Guisarme can Trip as can Unarmed Strike so you'd be fine without Knock-Down in that regard. Monk would probably be better since it can pick you up some of the feats you need, most notably Improved Trip, without having to meet the prerequisites. This combined with Cleric Domains granting some feats (notably Extend Spell from Planning-domain assuming you can wing it) would help you with your feat starvedness and allow you to function with less than 13 Int (since you'll be MAD as all hell otherwise). You could handle alignment issues with alignment shift (Monk doesn't lose abilities for becoming Neutral Good) after the two levels. Heck, you could take Combat Reflexes for level 1 and Improved Trip for 2.


Also, you'll need Extend Spell to qualify for Persistent Spell. You can get that from Planning-domain as I touched upon. Persisting Positive Energy Aura, Mass Lesser Vigor or Vigorous Circle is a great way to take care of healing over time. Your maneuvers are great for healing in combat, as you get to deal damage while also healing.

does Pelor get the planning domain?

[Eldariel]

does Pelor get the planning domain?

Not literally, no. But Planning domain is one of the extra Domains that's not assigned to core Greyhawk deities; you should see with your DM about it.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

My tongue is bleeding from biting it to keep from mentioning RKV shenanigans, but it would require significant homebrewing to get it to fly for your character anyways, so perhaps it's for the best.

You, my friend, need a Spiked Chain, and combine it with Improved Trip and a Persisted Righteous Might, which increases your size one category. Now you have a 20' radius which you threaten. Thanks to Thicket of Blades, this is a pretty darn good way to start a Lockdown Build.

If you want durability plus an ability to ignore DR, I'd also suggest Stone Power and Shards of Granite, although you're pretty feat-starved already. The former lets you take a -5 to hit to get 10 temp hit points. Every round. No, they don't stack, but they DO refresh. Basically, it lets you ignore the first 10 damage per round. Shards of Granite lets you also ignore any opponent DR or Hardness at the same time for no additional charge. Yes, this means you get to ignore DR/Epic too.

Persist Spell and DMM Persist is a good idea. You can pull this combo off with lots of really nifty spells, like the aforementioned Mass Vigor for unlimited out-of-combat healing

For spending money, it depends on how much you plan on using Persist Spell and DMM Persist. If you plan on using it extensively, may I humbly suggest Nightsticks? As many as you can afford.

[gallagher]

also, the reason why i am going with a mace of some sort is because this is a Radiant Servant of Pelor. it just doesnt make sense not to have a mace of some sort. i was thinking a heavy mace instead of a light one would be more appropriate for one of his devoted soldiers.

my characters backstory is something about how he was once a soldier and battle medic, rose through the ranks, received many awards, and has retired early but continues to take private contracts, but only directly from the church of Pelor. that is how he is going to find the party as well

[gallagher]

My tongue is bleeding from biting it to keep from mentioning RKV shenanigans, but it would require significant homebrewing to get it to fly for your character anyways, so perhaps it's for the best.

You, my friend, need a Spiked Chain, and combine it with Improved Trip and a Persisted Righteous Might, which increases your size one category. Now you have a 20' radius which you threaten. Thanks to Thicket of Blades, this is a pretty darn good way to start a Lockdown Build.

If you want durability plus an ability to ignore DR, I'd also suggest Stone Power and Shards of Granite, although you're pretty feat-starved already. The former lets you take a -5 to hit to get 10 temp hit points. Every round. No, they don't stack, but they DO refresh. Basically, it lets you ignore the first 10 damage per round. Shards of Granite lets you also ignore any opponent DR or Hardness at the same time for no additional charge. Yes, this means you get to ignore DR/Epic too.

Persist Spell and DMM Persist is a good idea. You can pull this combo off with lots of really nifty spells, like the aforementioned Mass Vigor for unlimited out-of-combat healing

For spending money, it depends on how much you plan on using Persist Spell and DMM Persist. If you plan on using it extensively, may I humbly suggest Nightsticks? As many as you can afford.

well i need extend spell, persistent spell, divine metamagic. i have one feat left. so it is either spike chain, or i find something else. i have a thing for RPing, so i dont know if i dont want to go with a heavy mace and power attack.

and for persist, i am not persisting vigor, as much as i want to. i will be persisting divine strength (not righteous might, because we are in the underdark, i want to be able to fit). i havent decided what else to persist, i am at class so i will be looking at my books when i get back

[Eldariel]

also, the reason why i am going with a mace of some sort is because this is a Radiant Servant of Pelor. it just doesnt make sense not to have a mace of some sort. i was thinking a heavy mace instead of a light one would be more appropriate for one of his devoted soldiers.

Get a homebrewed Grand Mace that's a martial reach weapon (or heck, exotic would do if you can wiggle the proficiency in somehow). Then use UA Strike or similar to threaten adjacent.

[gallagher]

wait a second...

i was under the impression that i needed to take a metamagic feat, then apply divine metamagic to it.

in the entry for it on complete divine, it says just pick a feat, but doesnt say i have to know it. i am further pushed towards thinking that i may not need to invest the feats into persistent spell and extend spell by the fact that the prereq's are only the ability to turn/rebuke undead.

was i crazy before, or just crazy now?

[Eldariel]

wait a second...

i was under the impression that i needed to take a metamagic feat, then apply divine metamagic to it.

in the entry for it on complete divine, it says just pick a feat, but doesnt say i have to know it. i am further pushed towards thinking that i may not need to invest the feats into persistent spell and extend spell by the fact that the prereq's are only the ability to turn/rebuke undead.

was i crazy before, or just crazy now?

Initially WoTC screwed up and it was like that. It has since been errata'd.

[gallagher]

how do people get around the fact that Knowledge Devotion makes one lose access to all the knowledge skills? according to my DM, cloistered clerics get access to all knowledges from the knowledge domain. is he wrong in that?

[gallagher]

ok, so i am mostly done. i solved the previous dilemma about being cloistered with knowledge devotion and took Able Learner. i also took a few points away from some of the knowledges and put them into Hide, seeing as i have HiPS.

hopefully you guys have some good critique on Phoebus

also, i still have some money to spend. i dont know what the best stuff to buy in my situation are. i am thinking a lesser truedeath crystal, and a new ability for my Nimbus (homebrewed weapon, think a lucerne hammer but with a mace's head instead)

[ShneekeyTheLost]

how do people get around the fact that Knowledge Devotion makes one lose access to all the knowledge skills? according to my DM, cloistered clerics get access to all knowledges from the knowledge domain. is he wrong in that?

Knowledge Devotion can be taken via either a Feat or by replacing the Knowledge Domain.

Cloistered Clerics get the Knowledge domain for free, so if he trades out the knowledge domain for knowledge devotion, he looses access to the granted ability of knowledge domain, which is access to all knowledge skills. Without this granted ability, you loose access to most of the useful knowledge skills to boost up for damage output with knowledge devotion.

The solution to this is either blow the feat on Knowledge Devotion so you can keep the domain granted ability to get access to all knowledge skills, or dip a level of something with all the knowledge skills and take Able Learner.

[SurlySeraph]

My tongue is bleeding from biting it to keep from mentioning RKV shenanigans, but it would require significant homebrewing to get it to fly for your character anyways, so perhaps it's for the best.

There are something like three different "Pelor's Shadowguard" classes. It requires very little homebrewing, and not too much refluffing.