Disjunction

[Beelzebub1111]

Anyone ever get hit by this? Got hit by this tonight and boy did it sting. Lost a really neat harp that gave me stoneskin while I played it, and my Studded leather +3 is now...studded leather. It was in the module, so I can't blame the DM. Blame the elf and the thief who can't roll on their detect secret doors roll.

[Eldariel]

Yeah, plenty of times. Which is why I prefer item independence; on high levels you can never rely on having the same items for too long if Disjunction isn't banned. And frankly, I wouldn't play high level games without Disjunction in some shape or form 'cause otherwise penetrating defensive buffs is such a huge pain in the butt, especially once caster levels bypass Greater Dispel Magic, that it's just stupid. Some use it as an uncapped Dispel but meh, that's just tame.

But yeah, it hurts. A lot. Much like Rust Monsters. Also, ever lost your magical scimitars to a Babau due to a failed Knowledge check? That sucks too. Really, anything that destroys anything permanently is a kinda bummer but then again, the game just wouldn't really be threatening enough otherwise. I like what it adds to the atmosphere. But I hate resolving it. That's a lot of saves to throw.

[herrhauptmann]

The Babau did what, acid damage to your weapons?

Everbright weapons, and blueshine/durable armor. Both are now immune to rust/acid attacks. Of course, you're still screwed by a Disjunction.

[Eldariel]

The Babau did what, acid damage to your weapons?

Everbright weapons, and blueshine/durable armor. Both are now immune to rust/acid attacks. Of course, you're still screwed by a Disjunction.

Yeah, well, it's way easier to figure that out in retrospect; if I knew we were fighting a Babau I obviously would've just used a bow or a pair of non-magical Scimitars anyways.

[BobVosh]

This is one spell change I really like in PF.
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/s...-s-disjunction

However in the 3.5 games I played in the past the DMs liked MD traps.

[herrhauptmann]

Yeah, well, it's way easier to figure that out in retrospect; if I knew we were fighting a Babau I obviously would've just used a bow or a pair of non-magical Scimitars anyways.

Nah, wasn't calling you dumb or anything, jsut couldn't remember what the Babau did.
Personally, I try to get everbright/durable for all my important equipment by level 10. First time I got it, it saved my bacon, so they're my new favorite enchantments.

[Morph Bark]

-SION, HAAAA!


Actually there was this one time where it came up and hit a target (well, two) that had just been subjected to fusion. I guess it was one way to make fission work on a fused character...

[ffone]

Disjunciton is one of those things I've never used on PCs as a DM, and would probably react immaturely to were it used on my fav PC's fav items, but I'm glad it's in the game system for 2 reasons:

1. DMs will sometimes realize they've given the PCs way too much uber-gear, and need a way to 'revoke' it. (Granted, DMs often metagame this badly.)

(For example: despite the fact that TWF is supposed to be far-from-optimal for most non-rogues, I've seen lots of cases where PCs benefited a lot from it b/c the DM throws out tons of magic weapons and so the cost of the two weapons is 'free'. In fact I've seen PCs pick up TWF just b/c of the treasure they got. This is OK since TWF is gimped, but you get the idea.)

2. It's such an obvious idea for a spell or effect, that if there weren't a core spell to do it, lots of people would houserule other ways to do it, and they would most often be more badly designed and balanced.

3. It provides a unique way for the PCs themselves to solve certain quests, by deconstructing magical defenses, or proverbially throwing the One Ring into the fires of Mount Doom when a magic volcano isn't handy.

[The Glyphstone]

-AAAAAAAALCON PUNCH!?

Disjunction is a stupid spell.

[BobVosh]

1. DMs will sometimes realize they've given the PCs way too much uber-gear, and need a way to 'revoke' it. (Granted, DMs often metagame this badly.)

Problem with this is its not very selective. You are going to nail almost all the rogues and fighters stuff, get 5% of the sorciden's stuff, 5% of the clerics, and like 40-60% of most other classes.

[ericgrau]

int = 15 + 4 (levels) + 6 (item) + ~1 tomes = 26 (+8)
save DC = 10+8+9=27
+5 weapon or armor will save: 2 + 15 (caster level) = 17, 55% success
+1, then +2 to save DC by around levels 18-20 when you can afford more tomes, but NPCs don't have so much money. "Afford" uses a reasonable definition btw, not spend all your gold on int to the exclusion of all else. NPCs have less wealth. If the DM's NPCs have more money or use splatbooks to boost DCs or have greater spell focus abjuration (who does that??) it's his own fault.

Dunno why all the wizard / cleric stuff would have a caster level over 15 unless there's some power-gaming trick I don't know about. Heck the headband of int is CL 8 (as is the belt of strength, ya). EDIT: Oh ya, duh, he can use his own will save. 11+8+5=24 for the cleric or 10% failure, 11+4+5=20 for the wizard or 30% failure, 6+4+5=15 for the fighter or 45% failure. But yeah nuking over half the PC's gear in a 40 foot radius, 80 foot diameter, is nuts.

[dsmiles]

Yes, I've been hit by it. And your thread title pretty much sums up my reaction.

DISJUNCTION

FRIGGIN'

SUCKS!

[ericgrau]

I tried a search on the www.wizards.com site to figure out wtf they were thinking. I only found two example uses for the spell:
1. Take down the magical defenses of high level monsters.
2. Strip down PCs who are too far ahead of WBL. It hurts non-casters more, ya, but those guys are more gear dependent anyway. Ya, ya, even 9th+ level spell casting magic items won't bring the fighter up to par in some posters' minds, but let's say some DM somewhere does have a problem. Now he has a solution. Even the wizard loses some items and the CoDzilla cleric may not lose many items but he'll pay dearly during that fight for relying on buffs instead of items. Buffs don't get a save.

Given the above and that D&D strategy is full of this beats that but another thing beats this, I can see why the spell exists. But the DM better pack a lot of extra treasure in the dungeon to appease the pissed off PCs.

[Magikeeper]

Ring of Spell-Battle and other defenses are important. As for using it, I suggest combining it with the Relicguard spell metamagic feat (+0 to level).

A relicguard spell has no effect on objects! Ultimate buff-removal without loss of loot.

It also does not effect undead, constructs, etc, but disjunction would be effecting the spells buffing them, not the creatures themselves.

Relicguard anti-magic field is also pretty nice.

[Urpriest]

Disjunction Junction, what's your Function?

Screwing over targets, like every other high level spell!*



*Except Meteor Swarm. Poor, poor meteor swarm.

[Harris the Ford]

Disjunction? I wish. My DM made is fight an ooze with over 1200 hit points that once per round would make a touch attach against you that would disjunction one of your items, along with anything you attacked it with. I lost a 150,000gp sword and most of the magic items on me, fortunately I was allowed a will save every time it did this, and playing as a paladin it wasnt too bad... until it disjunctioned my cloak of resistance +5, then it was a little difficult.

[Marnath]

What book is relicguard in?

[Magikeeper]

What book is relicguard in?

Dragon Magazine #347. Alas, it is not in the dragon compendium but google can give you the entire text of the feat.

[ffone]

Disjunction? I wish. My DM made is fight an ooze with over 1200 hit points that once per round would make a touch attach against you that would disjunction one of your items, along with anything you attacked it with. I lost a 150,000gp sword and most of the magic items on me, fortunately I was allowed a will save every time it did this, and playing as a paladin it wasnt too bad... until it disjunctioned my cloak of resistance +5, then it was a little difficult.

Living Spell: Disjunction? A good way to seriously annoy players. =P

(That might've been a different ooze though, if it really had 1200 HP....Living Spells have relatively low HD and HP for their CR.)

[Zhalath]

I'd like to curse whoever wrote Lords of Madness and included that little feat that allows beholders to turn their antimagic eye into a disjunction beam.

I think the power exists just for the sake of DM fiat. "Yeah, you don't have the +6 sword anymore. Sorry!"

[Tael]

Man do I love clockwork horrors... Disjunction, now driving your players into fits of rage at-will as early as 8 CR! (And don't forget the complementary implosion and disintegrate either!)

[Marnath]

Man do I love clockwork horrors... Disjunction, now driving your players into fits of rage at-will as early as 8 CR! (And don't forget the complementary implosion and disintegrate either!)

You do know that there's only supposed to be one adamantite horror in existence right? The other kinds can't do that.

[AmberVael]

You do know that there's only supposed to be one adamantite horror in existence right? The other kinds can't do that.

That's why you use CR 8 Living Spell (Disjunction) instead!

[Tavar]

You do know that there's only supposed to be one adamantite horror in existence right? The other kinds can't do that.

Not according to the stuff in the Monster Manuel 2. At least, not from what I remember. The version in which there's only one is from somewhere else, and it's much, much weaker.

[Marnath]

Not according to the stuff in the Monster Manuel 2. At least, not from what I remember. The version in which there's only one is from somewhere else, and it's much, much weaker.

I'm looking at the MM2 entry right now. Quoth the book "An adamantine horror is the supreme leader of the entire clockwork horror collective. Only one is believed to
exist."

[Crow]

Epic Seed: Ward

Until then though...FUUUUUUUUUUU-

To be honest, I use it all the time for knocking out buffs, force cages, magical traps, etc....

[Zhalath]

I'm looking at the MM2 entry right now. Quoth the book "An adamantine horror is the supreme leader of the entire clockwork horror collective. Only one is believed to exist."

Nonsense! If that were true, an adventuring party would've killed it ages ago.

[wayfare]

Makes you miss the days when adamantite offered natural enhancement bonuses to attacks :(

[Marnath]

Nonsense! If that were true, an adventuring party would've killed it ages ago.

O.o
....it has MD, disintegrate and implosion at-will. Plus is defended by a whole pile of the 3 other kinds. What kind of adventurers would wanna go up against that?

[Dark_Nohn]

Those that know what its capable of run out of fear or wisdom. Those that don't know what its capable of... usually go up against it at around level 6 because "boss"-type monsters are supposed to be around 3 CR higher than the PCs