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Thread: The SAD challange!
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2010-10-21, 04:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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The SAD challange!
This exercise in optimization is simple: built the SADest 3.5 character concept possible. In other words, have as many class features, spell DCs, saves, attack/AC bonuses or other miscellaneous stuff keyed off the same attribute bonus.
Bonus DnDs if you can follow the standard multiclassing rules.
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2010-10-21, 05:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The SAD challange!
What about NAD characters?
Last edited by Morph Bark; 2010-10-21 at 05:28 AM.
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2010-10-21, 05:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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2010-10-21, 05:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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2010-10-21, 05:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The SAD challange!
Wizard 20 with that Fey feat that keys hit points off intelligence. That's all you need.
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2010-10-21, 05:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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2010-10-21, 05:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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2010-10-21, 05:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The SAD challange!
You can get charisma to AC, saves, attack rolls and damage. Often twice. If you are undead, you can also get it to hit points.
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2010-10-21, 06:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The SAD challange!
If a tree falls in a forest, the Druid will make sure you hear about it.
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2010-10-21, 06:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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2010-10-21, 08:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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2010-10-21, 08:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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- Department of Smiting
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2010-10-21, 08:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The SAD challange!
If a tree falls in a forest, the Druid will make sure you hear about it.
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2010-10-21, 08:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The SAD challange!
Simple: you only need to perform the ritual one single time, ever, not once per day. Stick it in your backstory if possible, or make a point of searching for a one-time partner in game otherwise.
It's not a feat, but rather a special ability that was commonly given to new undead published after a certain point in 3.5's run, but undead from before its introduction were not retroactively given it by errata and were not given any way to obtain it.Like 4X (aka Civilization-like) gaming? Know programming? Interested in game development? Take a look.
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2010-10-21, 08:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The SAD challange!
From T_G's Tome of Battle compendium:
This is a SAD Warblade build requiring only a 13 INT to tick, though a good CON is always helpful.
Build Name: Intelligent Warrior
Race: Grey Elf
Build Stub: FTR 2/SWB 3/WB 5/EB 10
Build Progression:
FTR 1: Combat Expertise, Initiate of the Faerie Mysteries
FTR 2: Improved Trip
FTR 2/SWB 1: Exotic Weapon Proficiency – Spiked Chain
FTR 2/SWB 2: +1 INT
FTR 2/SWB 3:
FTR 2/SWB 3/WB 1: Weapon Focus – Spiked Chain. Maneuvers – Moment of Perfect Mind, Steel Wind, Leading the Attack. Stance – Punishing Stance.
FTR 2/SWB 3/WB 2: Maneuver – Douse the Flames.
FTR 2/SWB 3/WB 3: Maneuver – Action Before Thought. +1 INT
FTR 2/SWB 3/WB 4: Weapon Specialization – Spiked Chain. Stance – Hunter’s Sense.
FTR 2/SWB 3/WB 5: Martial Study – Diamond Mind. Maneuver – White Raven Tactics.
FTR 2/SWB 3/WB 5/EB 1: Maneuver – Bonecrusher.
FTR 2/SWB 3/WB 5/EB 2: Rapid Assault. +1 INT
FTR 2/SWB 3/WB 5/EB 3: Maneuver – Ruby Nightmare Blade.
FTR 2/SWB 3/WB 5/EB 4:
FTR 2/SWB 3/WB 5/EB 5: Sudden Recovery. Maneuver – Rapid Counter. Stance – Hearing the Air.
FTR 2/SWB 3/WB 5/EB 6: +1 INT
FTR 2/SWB 3/WB 5/EB 7: Maneuver – Greater Insightful Strike.
FTR 2/SWB 3/WB 5/EB 8: Vital Recovery.
FTR 2/SWB 3/WB 5/EB 9: Maneuver – Quicksilver Motion.
FTR 2/SWB 3/WB 5/EB 10: +1 INT
Legend: FTR – Fighter. SWB – Swashbuckler. WB – Warblade. EB – Eternal Blade
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2010-10-21, 09:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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2010-10-21, 09:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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2010-10-21, 09:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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2010-10-21, 09:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The SAD challange!
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2010-10-21, 09:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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2010-10-21, 09:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The SAD challange!
Sir Wisdom the SAD
Elan Paladin 4/Sanctified Mind 1/War Mind 5/Sanctified Mind 2-6
A Paladin using the Serenity feat (Dragon Magazine, also on Crystalkeep) uses Wis instead of Cha for all of his class abilities. So now your Wis improves all of your Saves (and it effectively doubles up on your Will Save), and you can use it for Smite (bonus to hit) and Turn Undead uses (various Divine feats).
Sanctified Mind (Lords of Madness) is 6 level, full BAB PrC which provides 5/6 caster or manifester progression (player's choice, and you can explicitly change which you take each level) with the dead level being the first level of the class. Unlike most other classes, you can enter it at ECL 5. It also has some semi-useful class abilities, including Power Resistance based on your HD, which counts as Spell Resistance if your DM is using the transparency rules.
War Mind is a nifty PrC. His best class feature is Sweeping Strike, which can be abused all kinds of ways with Attack of Opportunity combos. But he also gets Wis based Psychic Warrior power progression. It's relatively fast progression, too. At ECL 15, you essentially have the same powers as a 15th level Psychic Warrior.
Intuitive Attack feat (Book of Exalted Deeds) allows you to use your Wis bonus for your To-Hit bonus with simple or natural weapons (including your uber Claws of the Beast).
Enhanced Elan Resilience feat (Complete Psionic) improves your Elan ability to spend your Power Points (based on Wis) to negate damage to 4 points per power point spent. You can also burn 1 point to get +4 to your Saves for 1 round. Though you need to be careful about this, as both are an Immediate Action, and thus can be done once per round. Alternatively or in addition, you can also get temporary hit points with the Vigor power, and/or heal with Hostile Empathic Transfer when you need to. And/or you can set up the standard Claws of the Beast + Claws of the Vampire + Expansion combo. Just be mindful that you have very limited power points (though you're helped out by bonus power points from a high Wis).
Buy a Monk's Belt, and you get Wis to AC (including Touch AC). Improve both AC's even higher by using the Shield and Inertial Armor powers. And since you're not wearing armor, you can buy a Ring of Evasion, just to be extra cautious.
To top it off, take a look at the Travel Devotion (Complete Champion) to get free movement every turn, so that you can make a full attack every round. (Not that you need it. You have Hustle. But it's nice to be thorough).
Put it all together, and you get a PC who has Wis based Turn Undead, Saves, To-Hit, AC, and (essentially) hit points, with full BAB, 15th level Psychic Warrior abilities, plenty of divine and psionic options, and numerous useful class abilities.
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2010-10-21, 09:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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2010-10-21, 09:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The SAD challange!
@ Person_Man: Yeah, that's the one
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2010-10-21, 10:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The SAD challange!
Combo of Cha to HP for Undead PLUS Int to HP? Yes. Because I think the Cha to HP for Undead does not replace Con.
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2010-10-21, 10:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The SAD challange!
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2010-10-21, 11:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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2010-10-21, 11:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The SAD challange!
There's also the Totemist. His Save DC's are all based on Constitution, and various breath weapon soulmelds don't require an attack roll. You could easily mix in Warblade for Action Before Thought (Reflex Saves), Moment of Perfect Mind (Will Saves), and Insightful Strike (damage). Maybe a level of Fist of the Forest for AC. Depending on the ECL, you might want to use Totem Rager so you don't screw up your chakra bind progression too much. Dragonborn Mongrelfolk for +6 to Con and another breath weapon, and you're set.
Last edited by Person_Man; 2010-10-21 at 11:25 AM.
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2010-10-21, 12:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
Re: The SAD challange!
While improved saves are good, smite evil is very weak.
Sanctified Mind (Lords of Madness) is 6 level, full BAB PrC which provides 5/6 caster or manifester progression (player's choice, and you can explicitly change which you take each level) with the dead level being the first level of the class. Unlike most other classes, you can enter it at ECL 5. It also has some semi-useful class abilities, including Power Resistance based on your HD, which counts as Spell Resistance if your DM is using the transparency rules.
War Mind is a nifty PrC. His best class feature is Sweeping Strike, which can be abused all kinds of ways with Attack of Opportunity combos. But he also gets Wis based Psychic Warrior power progression. It's relatively fast progression, too. At ECL 15, you essentially have the same powers as a 15th level Psychic Warrior.
Intuitive Attack feat (Book of Exalted Deeds) allows you to use your Wis bonus for your To-Hit bonus with simple or natural weapons (including your uber Claws of the Beast).
Enhanced Elan Resilience feat (Complete Psionic) improves your Elan ability to spend your Power Points (based on Wis) to negate damage to 4 points per power point spent. You can also burn 1 point to get +4 to your Saves for 1 round. Though you need to be careful about this, as both are an Immediate Action, and thus can be done once per round. Alternatively or in addition, you can also get temporary hit points with the Vigor power, and/or heal with Hostile Empathic Transfer when you need to. And/or you can set up the standard Claws of the Beast + Claws of the Vampire + Expansion combo. Just be mindful that you have very limited power points (though you're helped out by bonus power points from a high Wis).
Buy a Monk's Belt, and you get Wis to AC (including Touch AC). Improve both AC's even higher by using the Shield and Inertial Armor powers. And since you're not wearing armor, you can buy a Ring of Evasion, just to be extra cautious.
To top it off, take a look at the Travel Devotion (Complete Champion) to get free movement every turn, so that you can make a full attack every round. (Not that you need it. You have Hustle. But it's nice to be thorough).
Put it all together, and you get a PC who has Wis based Turn Undead, Saves, To-Hit, AC, and (essentially) hit points, with full BAB, 15th level Psychic Warrior abilities, plenty of divine and psionic options, and numerous useful class abilities.
As a SAD wisdom dependent class a straight cloistered cleric is better at every level.
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2010-10-21, 12:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The SAD challange!
The point is not the damage, it's that you get Wis to attack twice with simple weapons or once with a martial weapon.
Correction: you're restricted to simple and natural weapons with IA. That means your Bite of the Wolf, Claws of the Beast, and/or whatever you metamorphosis into get Wis to attack twice. (IA + Smite)
The trouble with armor is that (a) it typically does nothing for your touch AC and (b) it does not stack with Inertial Armor.
Proclaiming it "just better" is premature.
What's wrong with Psywar power progression? You're not a caster, you're a gish.
You mean a Tier 1 class is better than a Tier 3 mixed with a Tier 5? Stop the presses!Last edited by Psyren; 2010-10-21 at 12:18 PM.
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2010-10-21, 12:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The SAD challange!
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