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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

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    Default Exploiting a Houserule...

    So, one of my DMs (the one that didn't move away) has a houserule that all metamagic and the like only increase spell level by one per modifier (i.e.: a maximized, enlarged, quickened fireball would use a 6th-level spell slot). Any ideas to utterly break this system?

    EDIT: Okay, maybe a clarification is in order. I need a build idea (20th-level gestalt) that can take the most advantage of this system. I will be going epic with this character. Stats are 18, 14, 15, 17, 14, 16 ([1d6+12]x6).
    Last edited by VarianArdell; 2010-10-22 at 05:16 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Exploiting a Houserule...

    You mean even more than it already is?

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    gomipile's Avatar

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    Default Re: Exploiting a Houserule...

    Arcane Thesis, that is all.
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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Farlion's Avatar

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    Default Re: Exploiting a Houserule...

    Why would you want to exploit it? Is he asking for it? Or is this just your way of telling your DM that his houserules suck?

    I wouldn't exploit such a houserule but use it to use metamagic on some spells you normally don't use them for, because you don't get arcane thesis for all of them.

    On the other hand: the houserule itself is an exploit. Just run with your classical Incantrix build and get even more BOOOM out of it.

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Exploiting a Houserule...

    Quote Originally Posted by gomipile View Post
    Arcane Thesis, that is all.
    honestly this is all you need as it will negate ALL the spell level adjustments on the spell so you would be casting it at the base spell level.

    on top of that maybe work into Incantrix.

    EDIT: does he make ALL metamagics +1 spell slot? even Invisible spell?
    Last edited by mobdrazhar; 2010-10-22 at 05:55 AM.

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    Paladin: I've got a better idea. You shut up and we'll send the rogue around back >.<

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: Exploiting a Houserule...

    Unfortunately that system does not need exploiting; merely using Quicken Spell or even Empower/Maximize Spell under that system is going to break things in half. Most broken of the Core-options is Quicken by far though; you can cast Quickened Glitterdust on level 5! That means you basically demolish encounters left-handed by then with two encounter ender spells a turn.
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  7. - Top - End - #7
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Default Re: Exploiting a Houserule...

    Not really an exploit, but it would make persistent spell feasible for about anyone with access to magic.

    I wouldn't try to exploit it, it's a good rule insofar as it helps semicasters a lot. For example, all the ranger only spells the artificer archer and the archivist archer normally use in persisted form now can be persisted by actual rangers. Perhaps ask your DM that standard casters use standard slot changes, and semicasters use the +1 only option.

    But if you're really bent on exploiting it... use some way to get as many metamagic feats as possible (Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle or some other way to get lots and lots of feats), arcane thesis, and stack them all.
    Last edited by Aharon; 2010-10-22 at 06:17 AM.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Exploiting a Houserule...

    Hmm, I'm now having fun mental images of fell-draining all of your spells and turning your enemies into wights that turn on the nearest thing to omnomnom or fell-animating them into rising as skeletal servants of yours after you kill them so they can kill their old comrades.

    And of course, split, twinned enervation as a 6th level spell... Or with arcane thesis, I think, a 4th or 5th level spell.

    Persistent Spell's ability to be used regularly is nifty enough. So many buffs you can now cast before you go to bed and still have up until next bedtime....

    Artificers can probably do some interesting things now as well since they can use metamagic with magic items...
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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: Exploiting a Houserule...

    Quote Originally Posted by Coidzor View Post
    Artificers can probably do some interesting things now as well since they can use metamagic with magic items...
    They already could! There's an infusion that says "APPLY A METAMAGIC TO A WAND FOR X ROUNDS AT NO COST. Other than, you know, spending this infusion. But really, it's a good gig for you."

    Honestly though, at the OP, there really isn't any exploiting to do here. It's already broken. Just cast every damage spell maximized, cast half your debuffs quickened.... don't even bother STACKING the metamagics. Just do it as is.
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  10. - Top - End - #10
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Tavar's Avatar

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    Default Re: Exploiting a Houserule...

    Makes casters with decent buffs just insane. For example, Persistent spell+almost any Druid buff. GG.
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  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

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    Default Re: Exploiting a Houserule...

    Yup.. grab Persistent, Maximize, and Quicken. Go to town. If your DM is willing to allow stinky stinky cheese, you can use any of the more broken meta-reducer builds.. ask him if Arcane Thesis combined with Incantrix shenanigans results in negative level adjustments, eh?
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  12. - Top - End - #12

    Default Re: Exploiting a Houserule...

    Quote Originally Posted by VarianArdell View Post
    So, one of my DMs (the one that didn't move away) has a houserule that all metamagic and the like only increase spell level by one per modifier (i.e.: a maximized, enlarged, quickened fireball would use a 6th-level spell slot). Any ideas to utterly break this system?

    EDIT: Okay, maybe a clarification is in order. I need a build idea (20th-level gestalt) that can take the most advantage of this system. I will be going epic with this character. Stats are 18, 14, 15, 17, 14, 16 ([1d6+12]x6).


    Are you sure this person ought to be writing a group's houserules?
    Last edited by Godless_Paladin; 2010-10-22 at 09:20 AM.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Cyrion's Avatar

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    Default Re: Exploiting a Houserule...

    And while you're busy figuring this out, also remember that it's going to work the same way for his bad guys. You're going to want to plan on stocking up on ways to defeat people who stack the snot out of metamagic or have simply put quicken on half their spells so that they're spell-casting batteries.
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  14. - Top - End - #14
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Re: Exploiting a Houserule...

    Cyrion's right. Investing in spellblades might be wise, so you get immune to the most common stuff, and to dispels.

    Also, Mystic Shield from Anauroch: Empire of the Shades is an excellent buff to have in this situation. It makes you immune to enemy spells lower than 7th level, and given these rules, you might see more heavily metamagick'ed spells from your foes than normal. It comes at 400 gp per casting and only has a 1 round/level duration, but the upside is that it's 8th level, so with the houserule, you can quicken it at the start of every encounter.

    You should also have a method to get total cover to be protected from MDJ's. You might need this protection twice a round, if somebody sanctum MDJ's or sudden quicken MDJ's.

    Making one site of the gestalt a Dweomerkeeper so that some of your buffs are undispellable seems wise.

    Summarizing:
    This rule doesn't really change anything about the power distributions among the classes (as I said, rangers et. al also profit from this rule).

    Just use whatever powerlevel you and your group and DM are comfortable with, and be aware of the fact that it will be higher because of this rule.

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