[3.5] Mystic SotAO Ranger -> Swiftblade?

[Dusk Eclipse]

Assuming the Sorc/Wiz spells you gain through the Sword of the Arcane Order feat, count as Arcane spells, would using an Arcane advancing prg class such as swiftblade,advance the spellcasting?

I wanted to make a more...balanced gish, in the sense that instead of being a spellcaster that hits baddies with a piece of metal, a much more martial spellcaster.

So I came up with the idea of trying to combine it with one of my favorite prg classes the Swiftblade, as the lost CL are not a big issue in such a build, besides it also opens some really nice options, the only thing I micht be missing is the capstone, as I won't have 6th level spells.

So what do you think? Should it be allowed? Yes, no, why?

[Eldariel]

Sure. It's much like base Duskblade or Suel Arcanamach Swiftblade; works fine and gets all the spell casting of the base class in spite of having 4 dead levels, but misses out on Innervated Speed. It's fair, it's solid, it's not broken.

[true_shinken]

I love the idea. Probably my favorite gish build ever.

[Dusk Eclipse]

The only problem is that I miis the martial melee weapons...well spears are perfectly sevciable weapons.

[true_shinken]

The only problem is that I miis the martial melee weapons...well spears are perfectly sevciable weapons.

If you really miss them swords, you could be an elf.

[Dusk Eclipse]

If you really miss them swords, you could be an elf.

I don't particularly like Elfs, and recently I am leaning towards polearms (probably influenced by the Hood's builds)

And now that I think so, maybe I can combine my staff fighter idea with this... Quarterstaffs are simple weapons right?

[Greenish]

If you really miss them swords, you could be an elf.

Eww, elves. Rather become a Neraphin. All martial weapon proficiencies, some nat armour, oh, and outsider type at +0 LA.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Eww, elves. Rather become a Neraphin. All martial weapon proficiencies, some nat armour, oh, and outsider type at +0 LA.

Being a giant frog is not my personal cup of tea either....

[true_shinken]

Being a giant frog is not my personal cup of tea either....

Also, it's obviously not intended for outsider PCs to get all martial weapon proficiencies.

And now that I think so, maybe I can combine my staff fighter idea with this... Quarterstaffs are simple weapons right?

Exactly. Sounds like a perfect fit.

[Eldariel]

Eww, elves. Rather become a Neraphin. All martial weapon proficiencies, some nat armour, oh, and outsider type at +0 LA.

Meh; something like Snow Elf would work out just fine. Hell, Fire Elf isn't terrible though Con penalty is always a downer. At least you're talking about a character who gains more HP through HD than your average Gish. There's always EWP feat too; doesn't require MWP.

[Mongoose87]

Don't you need MWP to get into Swiftblade?

[Eldariel]

Don't you need MWP to get into Swiftblade?

He has ranged weapons from Mystic Ranger making it a non-issue.

[Greenish]

Being a giant frog is not my personal cup of tea either....

Better than being an elf.

Also, it's obviously not intended for outsider PCs to get all martial weapon proficiencies.

I don't see the "obvious" part.

[true_shinken]

I don't see the "obvious" part.

It's not listed in any racial statblock. Magic of Incarnum's Aasimar Incarnate gains Martial Weapon Proficiency as a bonus feat. Planar Handbook's neraph 'treat the annulat as a martial weapon', but are not mentioned as innately proficient with them.
That's plenty of evidence of the RAI here. RAW is pretty obvious that they do get it, but complaining if any DM shoots it down is silly, because RAI is also very clear.

[Thiyr]

It's not listed in any racial statblock. Magic of Incarnum's Aasimar Incarnate gains Martial Weapon Proficiency as a bonus feat. Planar Handbook's neraph 'treat the annulat as a martial weapon', but are not mentioned as innately proficient with them.
That's plenty of evidence of the RAI here. RAW is pretty obvious that they do get it, but complaining if any DM shoots it down is silly, because RAI is also very clear.

"An outsider possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry)."...Proficient with all simple and martial weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry. That kinda throws the RAI argument for a loop IMO, as all outsiders have that by default. If they had proficiency with a specific martial weapon, I'd agree. The aasimar incarnate seems, honestly, to be the more likely oversight, considering that there would be no other evidence to support that players lose a racial trait because they're a player.

[true_shinken]

That kinda throws the RAI argument for a loop IMO, as all outsiders have that by default.

That's not from a racial statblock. Doesn't it seem weird that all other traits are accounted and listed in the racial statblocks but this one?

[Tvtyrant]

Being a giant frog is not my personal cup of tea either....

Not even the TitaniToad???! (Ad&D fans should know what I am talking about!)

[Greenish]

RAW is pretty obvious that they do get it, but complaining if any DM shoots it down is silly, because RAI is also very clear.

You're entitled to your own opinion, but trying to shove it down other people's throat is bad form. The very fact that there's an argument about it should adequately demonstrate that the designer's intentions aren't quite as clear as you maintain them to be.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Not even the TitaniToad???! (Ad&D fans should know what I am talking about!)

Started playing LATE in 3.5 run ( ~2006-2007), so I don't know about previous editions.

From the top of my head without checking my books.

Dark (ToM) Human Mystic Ranger 5/Abjurant Champion 1/Swiftblade 10/Abjurant Champion +4

1 Expeditous Dodge (RoTW)
H Mobility
3 Combat Casting
6 SotAO (CoV)
9 Minor Shapeshift (CMag)
12 Dimensional Jaunt (CMag)
15 Bounding Assault/Rapid Blitz
18 Rapid Bitz (Don't remember which one is the pre-req for the other one)

[Eldariel]

Better than being an elf.

Come now, being an elf > being a human any day of the week

[Greenish]

Come now, being an elf > being a human any day of the week

Except on monday. And sunday. And the days between them.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Fluffwise, yeah Elves better than humans (specially if you are a Valenar elf/xendirc drow )

Mechanic-wise: give me human every time of the week.

[Coidzor]

1 Expeditous Dodge (RoTW)
H Mobility
3 Combat Casting
6 SotAO (CoV)
9 Minor Shapeshift (CMag)
12 Dimensional Jaunt (CMag)
15 Bounding Assault
18 Rapid Bitz

Bounding Assault is the prerequisite for Rapid Blitz.

[Thiyr]

That's not from a racial statblock. Doesn't it seem weird that all other traits are accounted and listed in the racial statblocks but this one?

You're correct, it's not in the racial statblock. Because it's part of their type, like how undead are immune to critical hits. In fact, in exactly the same way skeletons are immune to critical hits (even though they're not explicitly stated to in their statblock).

[Coidzor]

Anyway, even with Mystic Ranger as the base, I'd still say don't take Swiftblade 10.

Eldritch Knight 1 would give a bonus feat and bump up the fortitude save.

[Mongoose87]

Anyway, even with Mystic Ranger as the base, I'd still say don't take Swiftblade 10.

Eldritch Knight 1 would give a bonus feat and bump up the fortitude save.

For a second, I thought you were recommending Eldritch Knight over Swiftblade.

[Coidzor]

For a second, I thought you were recommending Eldritch Knight over Swiftblade.

Over the tenth level of swiftblade, yes. All it gives is +10 movement speed while hasted and +1 to Reflex and Will saves

Of course, I just realized to a human something would need to be done to qualify for Eldritch Knight. Hmm. What else other than Swiftblade 10...

[true_shinken]

You're correct, it's not in the racial statblock. Because it's part of their type, like how undead are immune to critical hits. In fact, in exactly the same way skeletons are immune to critical hits (even though they're not explicitly stated to in their statblock).

But skeletons are not a playable race. Though I just checked the 'playing as a rakshasa' statblock and it does not mention weapon proficiencies so all, so maybe it's not that clear. The evidence from Aasimar Incarnate still stands, though.

Over the tenth level of swiftblade, yes. All it gives is +10 movement speed while hasted and +1 to Reflex and Will saves

Of course, I just realized to a human something would need to be done to qualify for Eldritch Knight. Hmm. What else other than Swiftblade 10...

Well, Swiftblade 10 also gives you time stop, ya know. Just saying.

[Eldariel]

Well, Swiftblade 10 also gives you time stop, ya know. Just saying.

But base non-6th level caster can't use it

[true_shinken]

But base non-6th level caster can't use it

Hm, true. The Versatile Spellcaster trick doesn't even work with Mystic Ranger.