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Thread: Best Archmage SLAs? [3.5]
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2010-10-23, 02:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Best Archmage SLAs? [3.5]
Basically what it says on the tin, what spells would you recommend for my Archmage to take as High Arcana?
Stick to the SRD because I'm too lazy to hunt through splat books for spells unless they're truly too awesome to miss.
I have 9th level spells so they can be of any level, and I have Extend, Empower & Quicken if metamagicked versions are the way to go.
Thanks in advance,
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2010-10-23, 02:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Best Archmage SLAs? [3.5]
One of the chief advantages of the SLA is that any spell you choose loses the need for verbal and somatic components. That makes spells you would want to cast while grappled/pinned or in a silence zone, like Teleport, good candidates.
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2010-10-23, 02:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Best Archmage SLAs? [3.5]
Spells you can be relatively sure you cast twice a day, otherwise, it's a waste of slots. Wish is nice, if you think you can get the 50'000 Xp back.
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2010-10-23, 02:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Best Archmage SLAs? [3.5]
The no compenents can make corrupt/sanctified spells more desirable.
There are even a few spells that have a racial or type requirement, though AFB and can't remember if they are in the component line.
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2010-10-23, 02:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Best Archmage SLAs? [3.5]
Basically, any spell with expensive components you think you'll cast more than ten times before the game is over is worth it.
Resident Vancian Apologist
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2010-10-23, 02:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Best Archmage SLAs? [3.5]
Hmm...Wish. I could live with starting a level behind for Wish 2/day. I'll ask the DM. Cheers.
Already have G. Teleport & G. Plane Shift at-will otherwise that's my go-to.Piratebold-Bard by Elder Tsofu | Backer #121 of the Giantitp Kickstarter | My homebrew
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2010-10-23, 02:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Best Archmage SLAs? [3.5]
Simulacrum is thoroughly cheesable. You aren't going beyond the SRD, otherwise Ice Assassin would probably have similar potential.
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2010-10-23, 03:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-10-23, 03:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Best Archmage SLAs? [3.5]
Shades is a good one for versatility, you will cast that more then twice per day. Same thing with the greater shadow evocation spell.
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2010-10-23, 03:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Best Archmage SLAs? [3.5]
Time Stop is never a bad choice. The chance to do a Power Up Dance unimpeded on a regular basis is juicy and a common occurrence if for some reason the unexpected does actually occur and you need a little time to properly deal with said threat.
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2010-10-23, 03:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Best Archmage SLAs? [3.5]
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2010-10-23, 03:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Best Archmage SLAs? [3.5]
hmmm. I just read the text in the component line. The description of corrupt components is a little vague but could swing either way. I can't assume every DM would interpret it the favourably though.
You should still be able to use Archmage to gain Drow or Celestial only spells though, providing you can get it in your spellbook.
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2010-10-23, 03:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Best Archmage SLAs? [3.5]
Best choices are 9th level spells you'd want anyways and you want more of. Time Stop, Disjunction & Shapechange are all awesome choices. Shapechange in particular is awesome since you don't need Foci for SLAs so you save that 1500gp in getting the focus, and unlike with components, Archmage SLA doesn't add any exceptions for expensive focuses (note that getting anything with GP or XP component is pretty terrible; you don't want to cast a spell with XP component 2 times per day and you don't want to pay 10 times a spell's GP cost in XP ever [and you'd have to pay it every time you cast the spell; 15k XP per Forcecage]). This way you effectively get an extra 9th level slot. Iz nice. Though something like Teleport or Greater Teleport isn't terrible either as you want to cast those a lot and getting them as SLAs makes them effectively untouchable.
Last edited by Eldariel; 2010-10-23 at 03:20 PM.
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2010-10-23, 05:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Best Archmage SLAs? [3.5]
from what i've seen and heard about the SLA Archmage High Arcana is that it has to be worth the spell slot that you are sacrificing...you have to sacrifice a 5th level slot and the one you want to you for the spell...so if you sacrifice lower than a 5th level slot, like say a 3rd level slot, you are giving up a 5th level slot for two 3rd level slots..not worth it...however, like other posters have commented, 9th/8th level slots make the best trade-off because you are sacrificing a 5th level to get two 9th/8th level slots, which is awesome
as for personal recommendations, Timestop, Extended Project Image, Simulacrum. Timestop can help out a lot in a pinch, Extended Project Image allows for interesting shenanigans, and Simulacrum lets you make a small army of powerful duplicates (either of yourself or powerful creatures you meet).Originally Posted by Vael View Post
...you're saying that if I go to heaven, I will find alcoholic bears waiting for me?
HELL! I CHOOSE HELL!
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2010-10-23, 05:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Best Archmage SLAs? [3.5]
Piratebold-Bard by Elder Tsofu | Backer #121 of the Giantitp Kickstarter | My homebrew
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2010-10-23, 05:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Best Archmage SLAs? [3.5]
Originally Posted by Vael View Post
...you're saying that if I go to heaven, I will find alcoholic bears waiting for me?
HELL! I CHOOSE HELL!
[GENERATION 16: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig and add 1 to the generation. This is a social experiment.]
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2010-10-23, 05:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Best Archmage SLAs? [3.5]
True Creation. I was going to say Apocalypse from the Sky but then I remembered you could use True Creation to make a box of electrons with no space between each of the particles.
Doc Roc: We're going to eat ourselves.
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2010-10-23, 05:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Best Archmage SLAs? [3.5]
Piratebold-Bard by Elder Tsofu | Backer #121 of the Giantitp Kickstarter | My homebrew
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2010-10-23, 05:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Best Archmage SLAs? [3.5]
Doc Roc: We're going to eat ourselves.
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2010-10-23, 06:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Best Archmage SLAs? [3.5]
Not really. No space in between either means literally none (your box is thus a small black hole...Hawking radiation would make it go boom, but probably not as impressively as you might want) or down to Fermi degeneracy, at which point you'd basically have a very tiny neutron star without the neutrons. I'm not sure what would happen in the latter case, but it most likely wouldn't explode.
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2010-10-23, 08:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Best Archmage SLAs? [3.5]
Waaaaaaaaaay more than trillions of particles in a 5'x5'x5' cube. Let's do a bit of very simplified math:
Spoiler- That cube holds 5x5x5 feet, or 125 feet³. One foot ~= 0.3048 meters, so the volume of the cube in meters is about 125 f³ x (0.3048 m/f)³ ~= 3.5396 m³.
- Now, the upper limit on the radius of an electron is 10^(-22) m (this depends on who you ask. Obviously there is some question of whether or not you can actually measure this radius. Hush. Since things in D&D occupy 3-space in cube form, I will simplify the calculations by assuming the electron is a cube with radius 10^(-22) m, which is to say a cube of side-length 2 x 10^(-22) m.
- Given this, an electron occupies the following volume with our D&D approximation: (2 x 10^(-22) m)³ = 8 x 10^(-66) m³.
- We now have enough to do our calculation, which is simple enough: we divide the cube's volume by the electron's volume to get the number of electrons we've created: (3.5396 m³)/(8 x 10^(-66) m³) = 4.4245 x 10^65 electrons.
- Note that this number (which because of our D&D "physics" is actually much less than the actual number of spheres you can fit in this cube) is completely ridiculous. For comparison, the number of particles in the universe is estimated to be only a few powers of 10 more than this (somewhere kind of around 10^75).
- The charge on a single electron is -1.602 x 10^(-19) Coulombs. Multiply this by the number of electrons you've just made, and you get a total charge of 2.836 x 10^48 C. We need to know more about the environment (and how the particles interact, as Urpriest noted) to know more, but that much charge is outrageous.
- The mass involved here is also stupidly huge. Even though each electron has almost negligible mass (about 9.109 x 10^(-31) kg), the sheer number you're dealing with means this cube weighs about 4.03 x 10^35 kg. Compare: the sun weighs about 2 x 10^30 kg. Whoops. The Chandrasekhar Limit (above which point this pile of electrons would become a black hole) is about 1.4 solar masses. This box, then, obviously becomes a black hole (in fact, it becomes Supermassive, with almost 150,000 solar masses). In case you are reluctant to believe this based on a Limit you've never heard of...
- The escape velocity from a planet with raduis r and mass m is v = √(2Gm/r). In this case, m = 4 x 10^35 kg, and r = 0.762 m. The gravitational constant, G, is 6.673 x 10^(-11) m³/(kg s²). So the escape velocity from our box is
v = √((2 x (6.673 x 10^(-11) m^3/(kg x s^2)) (4 x 10^35 kg))/0.762 m)
ve = 8.37 x 10^12 m/s. The speed of light e = 2.998 x 10^8 m/s. You got yourself a black hole. 'Gratz. - Finally, there is some chance that the actual volume of an electron is 0 (or infinitely small, at any rate). In this case you would almost certainly destroy the whole plane, because you would never "fill" your cube with electrons, but would rather dump infinite mass (and charge, but I'm not sure that would matter at that point) into your little box. Bye-bye, everything. Hope you cast that as an Astral Projection from a protected demiplane. Maybe that would even save you.
In conclusion: it instantly becomes a supermassive black hole. If anyone is tough enough (lol) to survive, they do also take countless d6 of lightning damage from the charge, not to mention radiation from positive ions shooting from all over the plane to the source of that negative charge (and the mass obviously). Then the energy released from those ions bonding to nearly as many electrons as therearewere particles in the universe would give you a pretty satisfying explosion, if only it were possible for anything to actually leave the cube. In short, this wouldprobablydefinitely be an effective way to killpretty mucheverything.
EDIT1: Evidently, I will do anything to avoid working on my comps.
EDIT2: Sorry for not contributing directly to the OP's question. I vote Maw of Chaos (SpC I think). It's just really fun.
EDIT3: Added escape velocity calc.
EDIT4: See edit 1.Last edited by Dr Bwaa; 2010-10-23 at 08:49 PM.
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2010-10-23, 08:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Best Archmage SLAs? [3.5]
Taking the above into account, the thing would definitely be past the Chandrasekhar Limit big time, so it would indeed be a black hole. And given the amount of mass involved the event horizon would likely swallow enough of the visible universe for the campaign to grind to a halt. Charge means it's a nonuniform black hole, so everybody and their mother gets ripped apart by tidal forces. So yeah.
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2010-10-23, 08:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Best Archmage SLAs? [3.5]
Opening a box of black hole would be cool. I favor using time stop though since it is roughly like get out of any situation. And having that twice for the cost of one is good. Course being balanced by not being able to switch that out hurts.
I don't understand the selection of wish but then I've never memorized it except for getting stats bumped. Unless I'm mistaken when you use an SLA with an material component or xp cost then those still apply as xp costs. Unlikely to be worth it IMHO.
Out of curiosity are any of the other Archmage specials that are worth it?
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2010-10-23, 09:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Best Archmage SLAs? [3.5]
Out of curiosity are any of the other Archmage specials that are worth it?
Mastery of elements - great if you are a sorc or blaster. Requires a bit of metagaming to know which elements your foes are not immune/resistant to though.
Mastery of counterspelling - only if you are a dedicated counterspeller, since counterspelling in general stinks.
Arcane fire - Not really worth the 9th lv slot, IMO, especially with the introduction of reserve feats.
Mastery of shaping - Nice, though in general, I tend to have picked up sculpt spell a lot earlier.
Spell power - You don't really a 5th lv slot at higher lvs anyways, but the benefit is pretty minor.
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2010-10-23, 09:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Best Archmage SLAs? [3.5]
The reach one can be pretty nice, but like sculpting it basically allows you to do for free tricks you were doing for +1 metamagic.
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2010-10-23, 09:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Best Archmage SLAs? [3.5]
Knowledge-skills are great for this.
With enough sources, that's kinda untrue actually. Once Battlemagic Perception comes into play, anyone can benefit of it since you'll probably be countering at least one spell per relevant encounter (free actions are nice).
I agree, this has never been worth anything at all. Spells you could sacrifice deal less damage than friggin' attack and the higher level slots have a far superior effects simply cast.
It's available spontaneously, without level adjustment or feat and goes great with Sculpt Spell (since you can modify the sculpted forms further). An empathic "Yes!" Besides, AMFs excluding you give you some protection from Time Stopped people as they can't enter AMFs under Time Stop. Also allows you to laugh to melee characters and monsters who try to fly to you under magic only to have it stop working
It can be fairly huge, actually, since there's a bunch of spells without caps in their effects and as the game gets more and more spell centric, being better at dispelling and making yours harder to dispel is a big part of the game. Though yeah, it can be hard to fit over Arcane Reach, Mastery of Shaping, SLA & company.Campaign Journal: Uncovering the Lost World - A Player's Diary in Low-Magic D&D (Latest Update: 8.3.2014)
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2010-10-24, 01:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Best Archmage SLAs? [3.5]
Would someone kindly tell me how a Wizard would know that an electron is, in a medieval setting where a mundane telescope is considered expensive and rare?
You could argue that Knowledge checks are in order, but it's always been my understanding that Knowledge checks only tell you stuff that is already known. The electron was just discovered sometime around 120 years ago. I think we can all agree that certain advancements had been made since the medieval times and 1897.
Anyone who attempts to get by with this box o' electrons malarkey deserves to have the PHB thrown at them.
There are certain times when metagame knowledge is okay.
OKAY: "Hey look, it's a skeleton, where is my club?"
NO OKAY: "Hmm, here comes the BBEG, I guess I'll use my advanced knowledge of nuclear physics to utterly destroy him and cause the side-effect of disrupting the gaming table with discussions concerning the verisimilitude of particle physics."
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2010-10-24, 04:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Best Archmage SLAs? [3.5]
The general argument is that, in a world with Contact Other Plane and the like, people would already know various facts of physics. Which is why I usually maintain that D&D runs on various sources of elemental mumbo-jumbo, not physics. Plus, fewer catgirls slain that way.
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2010-10-24, 04:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Best Archmage SLAs? [3.5]
Yup. Ancient Greece was asking questions about the fundamentals of the world, and thrown into D&D, it becomes a guess-and-check "Is the universe made up of fire, earth, water, air? No? Is it made up of such fundamental elements? No? Well how about is it made up of tiny particles all glued together somehow? Well, yes? Hmm, let me think about this a while..."
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2010-10-24, 04:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Best Archmage SLAs? [3.5]
I think you're both misreading the way SLAs with XP cost work:
Originally Posted by SRD