3.5 questions.

[Cipher Stars]

D&D 3.5

Multiclassing.

When you take a new level of another class, Suddenly all your other saves and attack bonuses just vanish ? wtf?
Correct? [ ] Incorrect? [ ]

I can't remember the other questions I had atm. for 3.5 at least.

Another question, for the Rose Gunner found here

How would that play out if you became undead? Having no Con, no Fort saves, and larger hitpoints.

and could you become a Lich using your "soul gun" as the housing for your soul. meaning you become a Lich and a Rose Gunner at the same time, transferring your soul not into a amulet or something, but into the gun. just forging that same link to it.

[Yuki Akuma]

...You're incredibly wrong.

BaB and saves are additive. If you take two levels in Rogue, then a level in Monk, you have a BaB of +1, Fort of +2, Ref of +5 and Will of +2.

[Cipher Stars]

...You're incredibly wrong.

BaB and saves are additive. If you take two levels in Rogue, then a level in Monk, you have a BaB of +1, Fort of +2, Ref of +5 and Will of +2.

Now show a higher level example. 15-20.
*Gotta learn'em all.

I knew you shouldn't lose them all, but the advancement is what gets me.

So Mr Rogue hits level 15. for bab 11/6/1 fort 5 ref 9 will 4
He then takes up Monk and gets to level Five to now have:
Bab ???? Fort 9 ref 13 will 8 ?

[Killer Angel]

Now show a higher level example. 15-20.
*Gotta learn'em all.

The answer is the same.
You sum 'em.
You pick the BAB, saves, etc of one class, and sum with the BAB, saves, etc, of the other.

[Yuki Akuma]

Now show a higher level example. 15-20.
*Gotta learn'em all.

I knew you shouldn't lose them all, but the advancement is what gets me.

So Mr Rogue hits level 15. for bab 11/6/1 fort 5 ref 9 will 4
He then takes up Monk and gets to level Five to now have:
Bab ???? Fort 9 ref 13 will 8 ?

BaB +14/+9/+4, Fort +9, Ref +13, Will +9. Easy.

Remember that when BaB gets added together, it can give you iterative attacks - a Rogue 4/Monk 4 will have a BaB of +6/+1.

I've seen this actually catch a few people out. You always get an extra attack at BaB +6, BaB +11 and BaB +16, no matter where you got them from.

[Coidzor]

Now show a higher level example. 15-20.
*Gotta learn'em all.

I knew you shouldn't lose them all, but the advancement is what gets me.

So Mr Rogue hits level 15. for bab 11/6/1 fort 5 ref 9 will 4
He then takes up Monk and gets to level Five to now have:
Bab ???? Fort 9 ref 13 will 8 ?

Monk 5 BAB+3 Fort+4 Reflex +4 Will+4
+
Rogue 15 BAB +11 Fort +5 Reflex +9 Will +5
= 14/9/4 BAB Fort:+9 Reflex: +13 Will: +9

[Yuki Akuma]

Monks: good for saving throws.

Although they really need Mettle.

[Wargor]

Halfling Monks : Even better for Saving Throws.

[Yora]

For BAB, you only add up the first number and ignore all additional attacks. When you got the final BAB, you calculate the additional attacks by substracting -5 steps from the main BAB number until you have no number smaller than +1.

Rogue 8: +6/+1
Fighter 8: +8/+3

+6 +8 = +14

And then you count down in -5 stepps:

+14/+9/+4

[Coidzor]

Another question, for the Rose Gunner found here

How would that play out if you became undead? Having no Con, no Fort saves, and larger hitpoints.

and could you become a Lich using your "soul gun" as the housing for your soul. meaning you become a Lich and a Rose Gunner at the same time, transferring your soul not into a amulet or something, but into the gun. just forging that same link to it.

Special: Character must be living and have a soul.

This means that you no longer qualify for the PrC as a dead or undead character. As it is fortitude save dependent in order to prepare spells, being immune to fortitude saves would either mean A you couldn't prepare spells or B. you couldn't not prepare spells giving you infinite spells per day in practice as well as theory.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#undeadType:

# Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless).
# Uses its Charisma modifier for Concentration checks.

Simplest houserule I can think of offhand is to make it a Fort save that effects undead using one's charisma.

[Cipher Stars]

Ah.

Summoning.

What does it mean when it says summoned minions share your move pool.

Is it really You don't do anything so they do something?

You use your own move action to move it? your attack for it to attack?
{{scrubbed}}
please clarify.

[odder]

where have you read that thing with the shared move pool...and are refering to spells as summon monster and nature's ally?

[Douglas]

Ah.

Summoning.

What does it mean when it says summoned minions share your move pool.

Is it really You don't do anything so they do something?

You use your own move action to move it? your attack for it to attack?

{{scrubbed}}
please clarify.

In 4e, yes that is typically how it works (I think). In 3.5, summoned monsters usually have the same initiative as you do, so they act at the same time, but they have their own set of actions.

Where, exactly, did you find this "share your move pool" rule? My best guess is that you read someone else commenting about 4e and couldn't tell which edition he was referring to. If you read it directly in the rules, I'm not sure what you could have read that might be interpreted that way. Maybe a poorly translated foreign language version?

[Quietus]

Ah.

Summoning.

What does it mean when it says summoned minions share your move pool.

Is it really You don't do anything so they do something?

You use your own move action to move it? your attack for it to attack?


{{scrubbed}}
please clarify.

Just want to say, be careful with your wording. There's a lot of people who don't appreciate the word gay being used in a negative connotation.

To answer your question : That's a very strange way of putting it. The summoned monsters act on your initiative - that is, they take their turn at the same time you take yours. Both you and your summoned monster get full turns.

[Cipher Stars]

It was from a 3.5 book.
Well, thats cleared up.
hm... I had a bunch of questions before. can't seem to remember them all...


if your starting out on level one, can you use a race with a LA of +1/2/3 ect?

how does LA work. (Level Adjustment?)

[The Rabbler]

{{scrubbed}}.

please keep things civil.

It was from a 3.5 book.
Well, thats cleared up.
hm... I had a bunch of questions before. can't seem to remember them all...


if your starting out on level one, can you use a race with a LA of +1/2/3 ect?

how does LA work. (Level Adjustment?)

You can always use a race with Level Adjustment. Level Adjustment adds to your ECL (Effective Character Level), making you effectively a higher level. There's also a method to remove LA at higher levels (which for some reason I can't find right now), but it requires your DM to okay it first.

[Cipher Stars]

You can always use a race with Level Adjustment. Level Adjustment adds to your ECL (Effective Character Level), making you effectively a higher level. There's also a method to remove LA at higher levels (which for some reason I can't find right now), but it requires your DM to okay it first.

Thanks, so... theres no point in LA then? its just an indicator that your more powerful then you look or something?

[Yora]

Yes and no.

Because of LA, you have to get higher ammounts of XP to gain new levels.
A character with LA +0 reaches 3rd level at 6,000 XP and 5th level at 15,000 XP.
A character with LA +2 reaches 3rd level at 15,000 XP (Level 3 + LA +2 = ECL 5).

Racial Hit Dice also count as levels.

[odder]

no you gain levels slower than others. Because you need more exp due to you having a higher ECL.

[Cipher Stars]

Yes and no.
Because of LA, you have to get higher ammounts of XP to gain new levels.
A character with LA +0 reaches 3rd level at 6,000 XP and 5th level at 15,000 XP.
A character with LA +2 reaches 3rd level at 15,000 XP (Level 3 + LA +2 = ECL 5).
Racial Hit Dice also count as levels.

... That... just doesn't sound worth it. you'd be like... level ten while everyone else is Twenty.

[grarrrg]

... That... just doesn't sound worth it. you'd be like... level ten while everyone else is Twenty.

no.
With LA of +2 you'd be level 18 when everyone else is 20
20 - (LA+2) = 18
You would 'usually' be LA# levels behind everyone else.

Reducing Level Adjustment

It is possible (and encouraged, if allowed) to buy off Level adjustments.
You will still be slightly behind in levels/experiance, but you will catch up the higher you get.

[Yora]

It's still quite agreed upon, that most listed LAs are way too high to be worth it. Which ever way they used to calculate them produced much too high results.

[Cipher Stars]

no.
With LA of +2 you'd be level 18 when everyone else is 20
20 - (LA+2) = 18
You would 'usually' be LA# levels behind everyone else.

Reducing Level Adjustment

It is possible (and encouraged, if allowed) to buy off Level adjustments.
You will still be slightly behind in levels/experiance, but you will catch up the higher you get.

Ah, much more sense. I just didn't do the math, I guessed because the
A character with LA +0 reaches 3rd level at 6,000 XP and 5th level at 15,000 XP.
A character with LA +2 reaches 3rd level at 15,000 XP (Level 3 + LA +2 = ECL 5).
the 15 was twice+ as much as the 6. guessed the 10/20 thing.


Another question...
Why so few spells a day ? our DM is one to have quite a bit packed in the days. He had to make spells that are two levels behind your max spell level At Will. capping at 3rd level spells.

[Sir Swindle89]

Another question...
Why so few spells a day ? our DM is one to have quite a bit packed in the days. He had to make spells that are two levels behind your max spell level At Will. capping at 3rd level spells.

You're probably playing a very combat heavy game, when i play generally the limiting factor on an adventuring day is hit points and the restoration there of. Or maybe you just make too liberal use of your spells.

[jiriku]

If you choose the right spells, you can get by casting 1-3 spells per encounter and still contribute quite a lot. Remember that even if you play a wizard, "cast a spell" isn't the only thing you can do on your turn.

[Sir Swindle89]

Theres also reserve feats you can get, that don't do magical effects without useing spell slots. If you're asking these questions you prolly don't have access to most of the splat books.

[Blackfang108]

Ah, much more sense. I just didn't do the math, I guessed because the
A character with LA +0 reaches 3rd level at 6,000 XP and 5th level at 15,000 XP.
A character with LA +2 reaches 3rd level at 15,000 XP (Level 3 + LA +2 = ECL 5).
the 15 was twice+ as much as the 6. guessed the 10/20 thing.

You were also making the assumption that a level 3, LA +0, ECL character and a level 3, LA+2, ECL 5 character would be in the same party.

The second character would be in a party with Level 5, ECL 0 characters, both needing 15,000 xp to level up, and therefore holding steady at 2 levels behind. With buy-off, you end up only part of one level behind, XP-wise.

[Eldariel]

If you choose the right spells, you can get by casting 1-3 spells per encounter and still contribute quite a lot. Remember that even if you play a wizard, "cast a spell" isn't the only thing you can do on your turn.

Specifically, the lower the party level, the less spells you need. A single Entangle or Sleep or Color Spray or some such can allow you to do more than all the other party members combined on level 1. Combine this with you having upwards to 5 spells on level 1 (if you're playing an Int bonus race like Gray Elf or Tiefling [both from Monster Manual]), start with base 18 in Int and specialize, you get 2 bonus spells from high Intelligence and one from Specialization as a Wizard (as an example). You could also be an Old Human/Dwarf/whatever and get +2 to mental stats from age (but -3 to physical stats too). Either way, that leaves you with 4 spells a day as a Wizard, and if you become a Focused Specialist [Complete Mage], that's 5. Clerics can get 4 too and Druids 3.

Really, the art of making your spells last is to pick high impact spells and make the most out of them; hitting one guy (unless it's like an Ogre) with Color Spray or Sleep is rarely necessary (since you can just attack it), but if there's a group of Goblins you're fighting, catching 4-5 of them in a Color Spray could easily knock 3-4 of them down. Or even all 5 if you're lucky. And while they're stunned, someone can go finish them off. For example you. The rest of the time you just attack with a Bow of some kind or throw Alchemist's Fire (a convenient way to improve your attacks in a few levels) or so.

Combine this with eventual scrolls of spells you need rarely but that absolutely shine then; e.g. Wind Wall, Knock, Lesser Restoration, etc. - oh, and few backups of your more common spells that don't need saves or Caster Level to shine like Solid Fog and Web - and Wands of more commonly used spells with similar qualities and you should always have a card to play. In games with less magic items, you can craft scrolls and wands yourself if necessary. If that's not feasible, you'll have to make do, of course; all this means is you gotta be more stingy and careful about when to use your spells. I like to go to sleep with at least one highest level spell left.


And as your spell levels get higher, picking lower level spells that remain useful (e.g. Grease, True Strike, Magic Missile, Entangle, Glitterdust, Web, Pyrotechnics, etc.) allows you to contribute a lot higher up. Especially since instead of attacking, you can now cast a low level slot instead when the encounter isn't all that difficult. But yeah, the mindset for casting spells should always be "do we need a spell to win this encounter" or at least "is this fight so dangerous that if we don't use spells, someone might die"; just casting spells at anything that moves makes them run out real quick.