Making low-level casters relevant

[WarKitty]

Many of us tend to play (or at least start out with) low-level games. Now, I've found problems here. I like to play casters; however the things are pretty useless at low levels. You don't have any hit points, you can't wear armor, and you're lucky if you have enough dex to hit anything, plus the ranged weapons you can use are really crappy.

How do you make your >l5 casters contribute to the party if you have multiple encounters per day?

[Tengu_temp]

Sleep, Color Spray, Grease, Hypnotism, Summon Monster I (once it lasts more than 1 round)... Those are supposed to be useless? You only need to cast one spell per encounter to really make a difference, the rest of the time you can just stay back in safety and fire your crossbow. Casters are good from level 1 and only get better later.

[bloodtide]

The easy answer is that low level spellcasters do not contribute to the encounter in the form of death, damage and destruction.

As spellcasters have high Intelligence, you should know the most about monsters and magical effects. Intelligence about monsters can be very helpful.

You also do the same with magical effects, and anything else you spend skill points on.


If you feel you 'need' to fight, there is a trick. The low level caster just goes for easy targets. The orc that just got tripped by the ranger, for example. Or the goblin that is 'mostly dead' next to the fighter.

[Crow]

I use out-of-combat utility and such, and in combat, spells that buff the party/debuff the enemy, or allow continued usage (eg Chill Touch).

[Godless_Paladin]

Low level casters are relevant. In games starting from level 1 right alongside "toploaded" options like Crusaders, casters have proven to be invaluable to the team.

How do you make your >l5 casters contribute to the party if you have multiple encounters per day?

The specifics depend on the caster type in question. There are so many options I don't know where to start...

[WinWin]

Silent Image. Use your imagination.

edit: Item creation can help. Familliars can be useful for scouting. The fact you don't require MW arms and armour means you have more resources to dedicate to unusual purchases.

Alchemical items are a decent choice. Crafting them requires caster levels in any event. they are usually touch attacks, so that helps with hitting the majority of low level challenges. Even something like a tanglefoot bag is helpful. Alchemical Fire is a 2 round 'light' spell and a weapon rolled into one. Even something like chalk and a bag of marbles have their uses in the hands of an intelligent character.

[SurlySeraph]

Why are you making attack rolls? Why are you in a position to be hit? At low levels, casters should a) hide behind the beefier members of the party, and be fully willing to run screaming if something gets past them, b) use the totally awesome save-or-screwed spells available at low level, like Sleep and Glitterdust, and c) buff themselves and the party to the extent that they can (Divine Favor, Blessing, Protection from Arrows, etc. at the lowest levels, much more effective spells like Haste and Mirror Image a little later).

Even at such low levels, running out of spells is avoidable. 1st-and 2nd-level Pearls of Power are cheap, your mental stats should be high enough for a fair number of bonus spells, and you can take a reserve feat if necessary. And if you're using spells that effectively shut down most of an encounter (Sleep, Glitterdust), you shouldn't need more than one offensive spell and perhaps a buff per encounter.

[gbprime]

Many of us tend to play (or at least start out with) low-level games. Now, I've found problems here. I like to play casters; however the things are pretty useless at low levels. You don't have any hit points, you can't wear armor, and you're lucky if you have enough dex to hit anything, plus the ranged weapons you can use are really crappy.

How do you make your >l5 casters contribute to the party if you have multiple encounters per day?

Reserve feats are one option. You can get a reserve feat that lets you throw 2d6 energy damage at level 3 (or earlier) and you can retrain it at later levels.

Equipment is a second option for a caster that has access to Craft Wondrous Item (either having the feat or hiring someone who does). An item that allows repeated use of a 1st level spell extends your battery life.

A DM can also drop something like this in a caster's lap to balance things. I once handed out a Scepter that you could charge up by expending a 1st level spell, and then for the next minute could use a standard action to throw Magic Missile from the scepter at your caster level.

[jiriku]

Battlefield control and mass SoL will do it for a sorcerer/wizard. At low levels, sleep, color spray, grease, glitterdust, and web will do horrible things to most enemies. One spell is enough to have a dramatic impact on a fight, then you can spend the rest of the encounter looking puny with your crossbow or dealing minor damage with a reserve feat.

For a martial cleric or favored soul, just pretend you're a fighter and you'll do OK. For a more casty cleric, you're pretty much stuck healbotting until level 5.

Druids mix BC with entangle and soften earth and stone with fighting via animal companion.

Dread necromancer is ok as a front-line combatant. Beguiler is one-shotting enemies with charms, I guess. Warmage isn't extremely relevant until he gets more spell slots. Healer is never extremely relevant. I'm not so familiar with shaman, shugenja, and wu jen so I don't know about those.

EDIT: OMG ninja'd seven times. Where did they all come from?

[Thefurmonger]

I have to agree with all the rest, I have found caster to be just fine from LVL1 on up.

Sorcer/Wiz- Greese, Color spray, Sleep = Win

Druid- Entangle, Seriously I don't need a list for this one. (Tho Blockade is just stupid good too)

Beguiller- See Sorc/Wiz and they have skills too.

Cleric- If you need a list then you just arn't trying.

[Magesmiley]

My comments here are mostly directed at the 3.x version of the game.

1. Use your spells selectively and wisely. Don't blow the entire wad the first time you encounter a kobold (and yes, I've seen players do this). Properly managing your resources is the single most important thing you can do. Knowing when not to use a spell is as important as properly casting one.
2. Don't focus on direct damage spells initially. Go for ones that can shift battles. Get a crossbow for direct damage. When you've got a 1d4+1 magic missile or a 1d4 burning hands, they're not terribly helpful. Sleep, charm person, and ray of enfeeblement are usually much better choices for your 1st level. This starts shifting at around 3rd level or so IMO.
3. Ask the DM if you can put some of your starting money into a 1st-level wand with a few charges left. At 15 gp per charge, you might be afford a few shots.
4. Alchemical items anyone?
5. Accept that your AC is going to be terrible - if you want it all, go play a cleric. Consider Mage Armor eventually. If you're in a world of hurt, consider fighting defensively or total defense.
6. Once you've got a little bit of money under your belt, definitely pursue a useful wand.
7. If you're a wizard (or someone else with Scribe Scroll), make scrolls for the seldom used spells that you'll want now and then. Make a few of the common ones for emergencies too. At 12.5 gp per 1st level spell, its very hard not to justify making them.
8. Watch for opportunities to use the Aid Another action. People often forget that this one is there, but often it can be better to do this than to resort to a physical attack yourself.

[WarKitty]

See, I didn't say they were completely useless. But we have a DM that throws 6 encounters per day at us. Which leaves you either sitting on your hands until it looks like you really need the spells, or being out of spells real fast. Both of which are frankly kind of boring.

[Tyndmyr]

Reserve feats are your friends.

[WarKitty]

Reserve feats are your friends.

Don't they all require like 4th level spell slots?

[Kylarra]

Fiery burst only requires 2nd.

[Tyndmyr]

Don't they all require like 4th level spell slots?

Hardly. One of the best, fiery burst, only requires a 2nd level fire spell, for instance. See also, precocious apprentice.

They range from 2 to 5, IIRC. Good amounts of variety at 2 and 3.

[Shpadoinkle]

See, I didn't say they were completely useless. But we have a DM that throws 6 encounters per day at us. Which leaves you either sitting on your hands until it looks like you really need the spells, or being out of spells real fast. Both of which are frankly kind of boring.

That's kind of what Scribe Scroll is for. And as a bonus, wizards get it free at level 1.

[gbprime]

Hardly. One of the best, fiery burst, only requires a 2nd level fire spell, for instance. See also, precocious apprentice.

Ding. Winner. Human wizard at level 1 (or other wizard with a flaw) can take Precocious Apprentice (Scorching Ray) and Fiery Burst. Can then throw 2d6 Fire AoE's as often as (s)he likes. You can retrain the precocious apprentice feat later in life, and the Fiery Burst upgrades as you gain spell levels, or you could retrain that to Searing Spell when running out of spell slots isn't so much of a concern anymore.

[Tengu_temp]

See, I didn't say they were completely useless. But we have a DM that throws 6 encounters per day at us.

Ouch, that's pretty excessive - the default is 4 encounters per day. How are other people holding up? I'd imagine that at this rate their HPs tend to run low and they have to use a lot of resources for healing.

I suggest making scrolls.

[WarKitty]

We have a dedicated healbot cleric plus a few wands and such that the DM drops as loot. But we have lost a barbarian to straight HP damage already when he got poisoned so we couldn't heal him by magic.

I'm a PF druid btw. Yeah, I know I have a companion, not the same. No, PF wild shape does nothing for my attack capabilities.

[lsfreak]

Hardly. One of the best, fiery burst, only requires a 2nd level fire spell, for instance. See also, precocious apprentice.

And Versatile Spellcaster for some spontaneous spellcasters, which are excellent feats. Sorcerers don't benefit unless flaws are allowed, and then you can grab Heighten Metamagic (or a different +1) to qualify.

A first level sorcerer gets a mere 4 1st-level spells a day (one for high Charisma, or possibly but unlikely 2), but Versatile Spellcaster bumps that up to 6 (turn two 0-level spells into a 1st-level). Wizards have specialization and focused specialization, which take your normal 2 spells/day and turns them into 3 or 4 a day, respectively.

The best way is Precocious Apprentice or Versatile Spellcaster with a Reserve feat, though.

[gbprime]

An elf generalist wizard (RotW) with a wizard Domain (UA) ends up with +2 spells per day at 1st level, no feats required. Also happy. (And proficiency with a bow and a 14 or better Dex is a fine backup plan at levels 1 and 2.)

[Tvtyrant]

I run 6 a day as a DM when I can, so from the other side of things I can say that you should be saving up for either:
1. 1 big monster. Aberrations, Dragons, etc. A Grick at level 1 is as much threat as 6 kobolds.
2. A lot of little ones at once. Say 10 kobolds or goblins at once. Then you glitterdust them. 1 spell slot for a lot of blind enemies, your guys mop up.

If its an even fight don't get involved unless it turns ugly. Your companions can do just fine on their own.

Also, whats your stats?

[Tyndmyr]

There's also the entirely mundane option of a heavy crossbow loaded with tumbling bolts. 1d10+2 damage without any investment besides minor amounts of gold you'll never miss at high levels. Sure, reloading is terrible, but it gives you one round of contribution per fight without running into that issue, at least.

And you should always carry a sling. No weight + free = even the most broke 1st level char can pack one.

[Ilmryn]

Never forget that at 1st level, the wizard with a crossbow can be pretty dangerous.
Consider the following:
-at level 1 BAB matters very little
-Casters usually have a dex in the 14-16 range
-1d8 is fairly decent damage at low levels, enough to take out mooks in one or two shots
A wizard armed with a crossbow probably has the same to-hit bonus as the party rogue, and does about the same damage.
This is why a low-level caster should ditch the staff and get a crossbow.

And, of course, this post is the first time I get ninja'd(or swordsaged, for that matter).

[Valameer]

But... but... I thought casters were superior to warriors right from level 1?

How can this be, Mr. Bigglesworth? *puts pinky to lip*


---
Ok, ok. Are you rich enough for a 1st level wand? They give you plenty of stuff to do. Enlarge person is a good one, magic missile is better than a crossbow, but don't worry about damage too much. Grease or protection from evil will help the big tough guys do their jobs better.

Level 1 scrolls are very cheap, and spells that caster level doesn't matter as much are good to scribe. Grease, enlarge person, disguise self, obscuring mist, protection from evil

If you are an elf, you can almost help with a bow. Almost.

I'd gravitate towards ways to buff the tougher members of the party when you are out of spells. They'll appreciate it and see you through. As it is, you'll waste your spells trying to win encounters on your own. Although at low levels having a spare color spray up your sleeve never hurts.

A wand of bull's strength is also great for always feeling useful. It's fairly pricey though.

EDIT: D'oh, just read you are a druid. Hm. Well, scrolls and wands with buffs are still the way to go. This time you have barkskin, goodberry, bull's strength. Cast entangle to lock down some melee enemies, but then dispel it when your front liners are ready to go in. Goodberry lasts a few days, so try to make a bunch on encounterless days (I know, it's a gamble to assume a day will be encounterless...)

Delay poison scrolls can come in handy occasionally. So can resist energy and lesser restoration.

Don't be afraid to use your animal companion, either. A horse companion saves money, wolves and dire badgers can hold the line.

And sometimes, you have to know when to conserve your strength. You'll eventually come into your own when the game gets to a higher level. For now, if the battle is already won, save your spells. Don't feel guilty about it, either.

[WarKitty]

If its an even fight don't get involved unless it turns ugly. Your companions can do just fine on their own.

See that's my complaint. For the majority of fights I am entirely superfluous. Which equals really really bored. The only ranged weapon I can use is the sling, which can do a maximum of 2 points of damage (-1 strength plus small size).

[Tvtyrant]

See that's my complaint. For the majority of fights I am entirely superfluous. Which equals really really bored. The only ranged weapon I can use is the sling, which can do a maximum of 2 points of damage (-1 strength plus small size).

Magic is a tradeoff. Your spells are much, much more powerful then an attack, but you get a limited #. The only thing I can off would be that you could buy a couple low level pearls, they only cost 1,000 gold each.

Are you allowed to reroll? Because if you want to play as a caster that attacks every turn and makes a difference in every fight you could reroll as a Warlock. You give up higher level spell slots, but at low levels that doesn't matter.

[subject42]

See that's my complaint. For the majority of fights I am entirely superfluous. Which equals really really bored. The only ranged weapon I can use is the sling, which can do a maximum of 2 points of damage (-1 strength plus small size).

If you're a druid, you should have at least a +4 modifier to handle animal at level 1, and it should be more like +5 to +12. That means that you should be able to train a few of them.

In pathfinder Weasels cost 2gp. Weasels have a +4 to hit and an attach ability. You should be able to weaselBomb your way through pretty much any encounter at low levels.

[Aron Times]

See that's my complaint. For the majority of fights I am entirely superfluous. Which equals really really bored. The only ranged weapon I can use is the sling, which can do a maximum of 2 points of damage (-1 strength plus small size).

4e solves this problem, but since you're playing Pathfinder, you probably won't switch.

You can look at things this way: You only need to cast one spell to win the battle, and then you can sit down and wait for your minions to finish off the disabled bad guys. Your magic is just that powerful.