Assassin Help

[Abaddon87]

Hey Playgrounders,

We are getting ready to take a break from our "epic" lvl game (over lvl 20 but no epic spells/feats) and I want to run an assassin. I have read over the assassins handbooks I have found but didn't get much help . Any advice would be much appreciated! Here is what I'm going for and what I have to work with:

Playing in Faerun, lvl 10. I would like to make a female unarmed assassin. Most likely Lawful Neutral. Initial thoughts were of a entertainer who has cover identities (maybe lvls in Spymaster?) who can infiltrate a noble's court and doesn't need to carry weapons. We will be in a 4 member party but two of the players are unavailable for the next few months so one member and I will be doing solo work with our characters for a while with the DM. I need an assassin that can survive on her own as much as possible. If she can survive long enough, I will be establishing an Assassins Guild.

I am open to other ideas though, but race will be human. Oh, and I'm a huge Assassins Creed (1 & 2) fan, so any Altiar or Ezio builds will earn bonus points as I can figure out how to make them best. Oh all sources are available, and yes I've looked at Swordsage but I'm excluding it. Doesn't really fit the feel I'm going for. Thanks for the help!

[Ernir]

First thing first: Do you want to have an assassin using the Assassin PrC from the DMG, or is it the role of "assassin" that appeals to you?

[Abaddon87]

Well, I like the idea of using poison but I'm sure there is an item for that. Death Attack is pretty useless unless you have a super high INT, but I do plan on having a high INT. So I guess if I can get a build that uses the class skills effectively then I am not at all opposed to taking a lvl in Assassin PRC.

[Keld Denar]

Arcane Rogue builds tend to do well with the 1 shot - 1 kill style assassin feel. Typical builds are Rogue1/Wizard4/UnseenSeer10/ArcaneTrickster5 or Spellthief1/Wizard4/UnseenSeer10/ArcaneTrickster5. Use Practiced Spellcaster to offset the -3 CL penalty that USS gives. Pick up Hunter's Eye (PHBII) off the Ranger list via USS' Expanded Learning feature to massively augement sneak attack dice, along with a hardcore skill booster spell like Divine Insight for when you really need to succeed. Sneak around with a combination of Kide + Move Silent augemented by Invis and Silence as needed. Get into tough locations through a versatile combination of the Open Lock and Disable Device skills and spells like Knock, Fly, Dimension Step, Teleport, Ghostform, etc. Kill foes and targets with a single shot of Orb of Fire dressed up with some metamagic and sneak attack damage. Do it from any range with the Sniper Shot spell (SpC). Wizards are very Int focused, which fits your idea.

Alternatively, Drood. Nobody suspects the gold finch on your windowsill that suddenly turns into a bear, mauls a mark, turns back into a gold finch and flies away. Anyone who investigates will be bewildered by how a bear killed the mark, let alone how it got IN to the room.

[Sir Swindle89]

Theres an Assassin base class in the power class set (think those are sword and sorcery). They get poison use and they Death Attack class feature triples their sneak attack damage for the attack. It's pretty good.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Other option is unarmed swordsage, you may need to find a high damage trick or something, but they got the skills, and the abilities that you may need.

[Abaddon87]

Drood, where is that from? I love the idea of alternate forms to escape/infiltrate in. I have been thinking about using a combination of Rogue, Swashbuckler, Monk and Spymaster (don't even start with the Monk hate... ) with the feats that allow your lvl to stack for class abilities and improving Unarmed Damage/Sneak Attack and using Kung Fu Genius to move all dependencies for Monk to INT. That was my idea at least.

I was mostly going for a normal person with lots of training in martial arts and deception. I doubt I would go for any actual caster class other than maybe Assassin. Spell casting would be something I would rather not rely on.

[Sir Swindle89]

Drood, where is that from? I love the idea of alternate forms to escape/infiltrate in. I have been thinking about using a combination of Rogue, Swashbuckler, Monk and Spymaster (don't even start with the Monk hate... ) with the feats that allow your lvl to stack for class abilities and improving Unarmed Damage/Sneak Attack and using Kung Fu Genius to move all dependencies for Monk to INT. That was my idea at least.

I was mostly going for a normal person with lots of training in martial arts and deception. I doubt I would go for any actual caster class other than maybe Assassin. Spell casting would be something I would rather not rely on.

It's a leet spelling of Druid. Alternativly you could play a tibbet(they turn into cats) or one of those oriental things, they look like humans if i recall and can turn into one of a list of small/tiny animals.

[Keld Denar]

Sorry, that should have read DRUID. Old habit from my MMO days.

If you didn't want the spells and wanted to focus instead of the WS aspect, UA's Simple Ranger variant gets Wildshape for small and medium animals, which you could then augement with Master of Many Forms (CAdv), Nature's Warrior (CWar), and Warshapper (CWar).

I'm thinking you want something that is less magical than more magical, given that you didn't even comment on the Unseen Seer build, which pretty much matches what you want to the tee.

[Abaddon87]

Don't know anything about Unseen Seer class so it wasn't ignored, just taken in by blind eyes

I would rather have a character that is able to do her stuff in any situation. AMF, dispelled gear, hands tied... As far as I know unarmed attacks are the only thing that allows that. Besides, (and its my fault for not giving background) I would enjoy having to use Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise and RPing to get close to targets.

[Fouredged Sword]

You could always play a swordsage with shadowhand and stone dragon. You have strikes that cause con damage. Do this with a weapon that deals con damage poision and you are a deadly force. Take a belt of battle and you can use two stat damageing strikes and two poision hits in a single round, and still have time to move.

Stat damage is deadly at most levels.

[Abaddon87]

While Swordsage IS a nice class, I am not looking to take any lvls in it as stated in OP. With low HP and very little time to make a killing strike, waiting for a full round of combat to get my one useful maneuver is not an option. Maybe its just me, I love Warblade and Crusader, but I fail to believe Swordsage is the Fix-it-All class for anyone playing a sneaky character or a Monk.

[Kaeso]

While Swordsage IS a nice class, I am not looking to take any lvls in it as stated in OP. With low HP and very little time to make a killing strike, waiting for a full round of combat to get my one useful maneuver is not an option. Maybe its just me, I love Warblade and Crusader, but I fail to believe Swordsage is the Fix-it-All class for anyone playing a sneaky character or a Monk.

You can "fix" it by taking adaptive style, which lets you retrieve all of your manouvres as a full round action. It's still a sucky recovery system compared to the Warblade's swift action for all manouvres or the crusader's spontaneous recovery, but it's better than a kick to the teeth.

[Jyokage]

You could always play the monk acf from dragon mag, the one that gives up flurry for wild shape (as per a druid of their level, I believe).

[Ossian]

While Swordsage IS a nice class, I am not looking to take any lvls in it as stated in OP. With low HP and very little time to make a killing strike, waiting for a full round of combat to get my one useful maneuver is not an option. Maybe its just me, I love Warblade and Crusader, but I fail to believe Swordsage is the Fix-it-All class for anyone playing a sneaky character or a Monk.

Just a random (and low magic low optimization but perhaps the right "feel") though: start out as rogue to get sneak attack and a load of skill points, go level 4. Then Ranger (urban, from unearthed arcana) for favoured enemy (organizations) and urban tracking. Say again till level 4, which gives you also some good BAB and durability, + 2WF for some Ezio Auditore blade bracers fun...). Then go monk until level 2 for a compatible skill set and the unarmed attacks package and all the feats you can possibly want.

From there on, I'd just stay rogue till you are Walking Death...

[Keld Denar]

Don't know anything about Unseen Seer class so it wasn't ignored, just taken in by blind eyes

I would rather have a character that is able to do her stuff in any situation. AMF, dispelled gear, hands tied... As far as I know unarmed attacks are the only thing that allows that. Besides, (and its my fault for not giving background) I would enjoy having to use Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise and RPing to get close to targets.

Unseen Seer is in Complete Mage if you want to read up on it.

The nice thing is, if you do USS on a human chassis, you can take the Able Learner (Races of Destiny) feat at 1, which essentially keeps all of your Rogue skills as class skills forever. That means you can keep things like Spot, Search, Hide, Move Silent, Escape Artist, etc maxed out. USS has a whopping 6 SP per level, better than anything but pure Rogue.

You can also plan for things. AMFs are kinda tough, so hopefully you have enough Escape Artist to handle that, but simple bound + gagged + naked is as simple as keeping a Silent Spell Dimension Step memorized. All Teleport subschool spells are verbal only (except Teleportation Circle, due to the material cost). If you Silent Spell a spell from the Teleport subschool, it has no components. Thats enough to get you out of bonds. Alternatively, take the Sudden Silence feat and any Teleport subschool spell you know is automatically silent, once per day. One of the few times where the sudden metamagic feats are actually decent.

Also, as a spellcaster, you could in theory take Craft Contingent Spell (CArcane) and sketch up some contingency spells. Things like "teleport to sanctum if I ever say mrrffff errrrffff mrrrfffff", the sounds you'd make while gagged.

An alternative, since you want monk, would be Psionics. Psionics are purely mental actions, meaning they are automatically silenced and stilled. If you can use home brew, Eldariel's amazing Ephemeral Blade PrC would make an awesome assassin. Lead in with something like Monk2/Ardent2/Warblade1 would be solid. Take Monastic Training (ECS) for Ephemeral Blade as your 1st level monk bonus feat, then take Tashalatora (Secrets of Sarlona) at 6. This allows you to add your 2 monk levels to your 10 Ephemeral Blade levels to get 12 levels of monk progression WRT Flurry, UAS damage, and AC bonus. That gives you Greater Flurry, Superior Unarmed Strike gives you 2d8 base UAS damage. You'd also have a ML of 14 by level 15 when you finish Ephemeral Blade based on Ardent manifesting. Pick the Time and Freedom mantles and you get all kinds of cool infiltration powers like Dim Hop (10' swift action teleport), Time Hop (person or item gets lost in the time stream for a few rounds, then reappears, great for disabling locked doors), Psionic Teleport, and Anticipatory Strike (Psionic Celerity!). Ephemeral Blade has some awesome support for the Psychoportation discipline (the psionic teleportation school) including the ability to tele-bamf pounce people. Combine that with the Sun School tactical feat (CWarrior) and the Snap Kick feat (ToB) and you can Dim Hop 10' behind someone and get 3 attacks (one of which is a strike) as a swift action, then Greater Flurry them for up to 6-7 more hits.

Brutal setup, almost no gear required and goes from helplessly bound/gagged to KOing your butt in less than 6 seconds. Plus, Psionics are a GREAT system! Requires a little homebrew, but its really a phenomonally put together class.

EDIT: Assuming fractional BAB/saves
Human Monk2/Ardent2/Warblade1/EphemeralBlade10, Time, Freedom, Magic mantles

Spoiler

Show

{table=header]ECL|IL|Class|BAB|Feat|Power/Maneuver
1|1|Monk1|+0|IUAS, Stunning Fist?, Psionic Meditation|
2|1|Monk2|+1|Monastic Training|
3|2|Ardent1|+2|Practiced Manifester (Ardent)|Dim Hop, Hustle
4|2|Ardent2|+3||Decelerate
5|3|Warblade1|+4||Saph Nightmare Blade, Emerald Razor, Mountain Hammer, Stance of Clarity
6|4|EphemeralBlade1|+5|Tashalatora|
7|5|EphemeralBlade2|+6||Time Hop, Insightful Strike, Accelerated Mind Stance
8|6|EphemeralBlade3|+7||Psionic Fly
9|7|EphemeralBlade4|+8|Snap Kick|Psionic Teleport, Ruby Nightmare Strike
10|8|EphemeralBlade5|+9||Anticipatory Strike, Pearl of Black Doubt Stance
11|9|EphemeralBlade6|+10||Disrupting Blow
12|10|EphemeralBlade7|+11|Sun School|Temporal Acceleration
13|11|EphemeralBlade8|+12||Dispel Psionics, Moment of Alacrity, Diamond Rift Stance
14|12|EphemeralBlade9|+13||Psionic Freedom of Movement
15|13|EphemeralBlade10|+14|Superior Unarmed Strike|Null Psionic Field, Avalache of Blades[/table]

Wow, that was kinda fun. Complete, playable character build up to level 15. From 15 on, your choice of more Ardent (to pick up Temporal Regression, a 9th level power) or more Warblade (aiming for Time Stands Still), or both. You have a ML of 15 while in Diamond Rift Stance, so 2 levels of Ardent would get you a ML of 17 for Temporal Regression and then 3 levels of Warblade would leave you with an IL of 17 at ECL20 which just barely nicks you Time Stands Still.

At level 15, you can do all kinds of nasty stuff. In Diamond Rift Stance, use Dim Hop to port next to someone, triggering the Diamond Rift ability to make a Strike after using a Psychoportation power. Initiate Avalanche of Blades to make an unlimited number of attacks until you miss, then add in your Sun School and Snap Kick attacks. With your standard, Initiate Ruby Nightmare Blade, and with your move action, recover your Psionic Focus. Immediately expend your Focus for Ephemeral Blade's Mental Alacrity for another full round, initiate Insightful Strike, recover your focus with your move, and Dim Hop another 10' to trigger Diamond Rift again for a strike and 2 normal attacks. Once that's done, your turn is "over", initiate Moment of Alacrity as an immediate action and full attack again (note that this is a "new turn", which recovers your ability to take an immediate action). After that, but before your foe goes, manifest Anticipatory Strike for another full round action complete with full attack and swift action Dim Hop to trigger ANOTHER strike and 2 followup attacks.

Congrats, your alpha strike just made what is effectively 3 full attacks, initiated 5 strikes, and made a grand total of about 30-35 attacks in under 6 seconds. And thats assuming a naked start...

While everyone is standing around awestruck by your furious flurrious fists, Psionic Teleport away, collect your bounty, and drown yourself in wine and women!

[ericgrau]

Average monster stats, including AC, HP and fort saves: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...26&postcount=5

Chance of success on death attack = chance of hitting x chance of monster failing save. Since you still get sneak attack damage, I'd lean slightly more towards hitting than having a high death attack DCs. The assasin's blade boosts your death attack DC. NPCs tend to have lower saves than monsters.

[BRC]

I had lots of fun with an Unarmed Rogue. One level of Monk and the Aesthetic Rogue feat from Comp Scoundrel (Or Comp Adventurer) to stack Rogue and Monk levels for sneak attack and unarmed strike damage. My DM let me TWF my fists (Rather than using Flurry), so it worked out very well. The only things you lose for wearing armor is your Flurry, which you don't really care about anyway, and it gives your saves a much needed boost.

For a True Altair/Ezio thing you'd want the Wristknife from Comp Scoundrel, but that's mainly an aesthetic thing. If you use an unarmed build like the one I described above, you can actually deal more damage at high levels (I remember TWF sneak attacking with my 2d10 fists near the end of the campaign).


Now, I'm AFB right now, but a liberal interpretation of the Mosquito Bite Skill trick (The enemy dosn't realize you've hit them until a few rounds later) might be worth grabbing. Waltz up to your enemy, hit them from behind when nobody's looking, walk away. A few seconds later they realize you just punched their spine out.

[Abaddon87]

Oooo hadn't thought about psionics! Psionic Monk combo would be pretty awesome! Would fit with my DEX/INT based build very well... I'll have to look into that one.

Unfortunately, Mosquito Bite doesn't allow the target to ignore being dropped bellow 0 HP... otherwise that would be a MUST for any Assassin build. I had also realized the sad truth that unarmed strikes would out damage a wrist blade, which made me kinda sad

Thanks for all the GREAT advice guys! Keep it coming, you've all given me lots to think about...

[BRC]

Here's another idea: Full Factotum with Improved Unarmed Strike and lots of Font of Inspiration.

You walk up to your target, having infiltrated with your Disguise and Bluff checks. Then, using Cunning Brilliance, you simulate the monk's Quivering Palm ability and hit the flat-footed target with an unarmed strike (Perhaps boosted by your Int). Then you use Cunning Surge to grant yourself another standard action, which you switch to a move action to GTFO. Since Jump, Climb and Tumble are dex and str based skills, your Int boosts them automatically, and with a single inspiration point you can boost those even higher as you Ezio your way through the city.

Meanwhile, the target thinks they're safe, when suddenly, as a free action, you will them to die and they need to make a fort save (That's how Quivering Palm works).


Now, if your DM would let you use your Int mod instead of Wis for the Quivering Palm DC, that would be amazing, otherwise you might need to pump your Wis for this to work. The good news is that, since this is pretty much the only time you need a high wis, you can just chug a potion of Owl's Wisdom to give yourself a temporary boost to the DC, rather than burning money to permentally increase it, so you can get away with a decent wis most of the time, and a great wis when "On the Job" as it were.

Also, it couldn't hurt to use Arcane Dillente to hit the target with something that will hurt his fort save. Maybe Bestow Curse. It's a range of Touch, maybe you can combine it and Quivering Palm into one unarmed attack?

Alternatively, you could spend lots of Inspiration points on Cunning Strike, to hit the target with loads of Sneak attack damage, but I think the Quivering Palm option is better.

edit: You could also spend another 4 Inspiration points for a Monks Unarmed Strike damage and/or a rogues Sneak Attack die to include with that Quivering Palm.

[Keld Denar]

Check out my edit above for a full build. Monk2/Ardent2/Warblade1/Ephemeral Blade10 is a badass mofo. Ardent manifesting is pretty much the best in a multiclass situation thanks to Practiced Manifester. Almost gives you that Nightcrawler tele-bamf feel, minus the blueness and the tail and the funky german accent.

[Abaddon87]

BRC... All our base are belong to you...

If I take Kung Fu Genius (feat from Dragon Mag) it will move all WIS dependent abilities and modifiers to INT for Monk features... AND with Factotum I literally can be ANYONE I want to copy... Brilliant! I now have a very strong contender for this character. I think there is a feat that also allows use of the Paralyzing Strike to do other things by burning additional uses. Pressure Points or something I think its called. And if I added poison on top of that, the Quivering Palm would be an almost sure kill...

Now is there an item that allows safe use of poison like the Assassin class feature?

I will have to run Factotum by my DM as I know he has never seen it before. If he says no... I'll probably go with a psionic monk type.

[Fouredged Sword]

Consider a dip in to chamelion as a factotum. you don't need a lot, but being able to mimic the warlock ignoreing crafting casting reqs and the floating feat you get at chamelion 2, you can make any magic item that can be made by a CL level 15 character.

[jiriku]

Revised monk in my sig is the perfect choice for a character who's not gear-dependent and needs to be able to sneak in and out of places. You can use the Decisive Strike monk ACF to get that crunchy high-damage single-shot effect, and using the Strike Like a Wave, Bend Like a Reed ACF you can be just as effective with monk weapons as you would be with an unarmed strike. Your Balance, Jump, and Tumble skills are high enough to pull off amazing tricks, and Kung Fu Genius will let you play a Dex/Int-centered monk without the M.A.D.ness that people usually associate with monk.

[Abaddon87]

Where is Chamelion from again? I'll have to look into that. Making items is sure cheaper than buying them. And my DM can be pretty lacking on treasure...

[Keld Denar]

Races of Destiny.

Also, did you look at my build above? Its sexy!

[Abaddon87]

I sure did Keld. You are a true craftsman and your knowledge of class combos exceeds my own by leaps and bounds! Thats why I ask my fellow Playgrounders in times like these. If Factotum is out, I will take a VERY close look at that beast of a build you put up there.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Consider using Psychic Assassin, the Mind Cripple ability you can get at the 5th level can outright disable half the creatures in the game (half of the ones that can be sneak attacked anyway) in a single TWF full attack regardless of how much HP damage you deal. Definitely better than the DMG Assassin class, and much easier to qualify for with Practiced Manifester than when it was first released.

[Keld Denar]

The greatest thing about the Tashalatora feat, is that it works with any one Psionic class. That really limits the need for any "Psionic Fist" type PrCs, since ANY Psionic class turns into one. That means you can use other PrCs like Slayer, War Mind, the above mentioned Ephemeral Blade, or even base classes like Psychic Warrior or Psychic Rogue to continue to advance the best features of a monk, namedly UAS damage, Flurry, and AC.

You could do something as simple as a Monk2/PsyWar18 or Monk2/PsyRogue18 to something beautifully complex as what I posted above and match your desired concept.

[JaronK]

Factotum 8/Unarmed Variant Swordsage 2. Human is solid, though Whispergnome is better. You've got unarmed attacks, but I'd recommend a Gnomish Quickrazor (which is the stabby thing from Assassin's Creed anyway), since you can put poison on it and use Iajuitsu Focus (but most of the time you'll seem unarmed). Unfortunately you can't use Major Creation to get Black Lotus Poison/Sinmaker's Surprise for another two levels, but otherwise you should be good to go. Solid feats to consider include Imperious Command, Master of Poisons, Terrifying Strike, Sickening Strike, EWP Gnomish Quickrazor (which is free if you're a Whispergnome and use the Complete Warrior exotic proficiency trade rule), and of course Font of Inspiration. Use a feycraft gnomish quickrazor, preferably with Blur Striking and Assassination and made of Obdurium (so it can cut through anything, including locks and prison bars). Use Assassin's Stance along with Shadow Jaunt and Cloak of Shadows.

Very assassin-y.

JaronK