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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Troll in the Playground
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    Jan 2007

    Default [Exalted] New builds with the CharGen Errata

    A copy of the errata is spoilered below for convenience, but here is a link to the original just in case.

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    • Players may raise any of their character’s abilities to five without spending bonus points.

    • Players receive four specialties to distribute amongst their character’s abilities.*

    • Virtues may be purchased for 1 bonus point each. However, Willpower is calculated independently of Virtues.*

    • Characters begin with Willpower rated at 5. Willpower may be increased at a cost of 1 bonus point.*

    • Characters may start with (Willpower + Compassion) Intimacies without spending bonus points.*

    • When selecting Charms, players no longer need to choose at least five Charms from Caste or Favored abilities. The character may start with any ten Charms she meets the prerequisites for.

    • Charms cost 4 bonus points, 3 if within a Caste or Favored Ability.

    • Players receive 18 bonus points at character creation.*

    • The above changes also apply to Abyssal and Infernal character creation.

    • Items marked with an asterisk also apply to Alchemical, Dragon-Blooded, Lunar, and Sidereal Exalted.

    So, with the new rules, what are some interesting builds you can work straight out of character generation that you couldn't have before (excluding the use of flaws for this discussion)?

    My first thought was that now you can make a Solar that has Celestial Circle Sorcery straight out of the box, but isn't as horribly gimped. Before, you had to spend 14 of your 15 bonus points on Essence 4, and then your last bonus point getting Occult up to 4 so that you could afford the initiation charm to start taking actual Celestial spells. That left you with a max of 3 in all of your other abilities and backgrounds (meaning no Resource 5 or Celestial Battle Armor or similarly shiny things), 5-6 Willpower (unless you spring for the complete-lack-of-ethics + sociopath build with 7 Willpower), and very few charms with which to buy the things you need to get by in day-to-day life if you planned on starting with any respectable number of spells.

    With the errata, you can naturally buy Occult up to 5 (you only need 4, but who would do that?) and still get stuff like Dodge, Awareness, and Martial Arts up to 5, all without spending bonus points. You no longer have as much incentive to choose the psychotic pervert virtue array, because it's independent of Willpower. And, after buying Essence 4, you still have 4 bonus points left, which can be used to get those shiny artifacts or bump yourself up to Willpower 9 or whatever.

    So, are there any other newly opened avenues of prosperity available courtesy of the Ink Monkeys? They don't have to be optimized or even particularly useful; just interesting, funny, ironic, etc.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Tengu_temp's Avatar

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    Default Re: [Exalted] New builds with the CharGen Errata

    My favorite part of this errata is what it did with virtues: finally there is a reason for having more than two virtues high, virtues are cheap to upgrade, and we should no longer see that many character with two high virtues and two 1s. On the other hand, now it's ridiculously cheap to start with 10 willpower, and the change to abilities promotes specializing rather than having a well-rounded set of skills.

    Siela Tempo by the talented Kasanip. Tengu by myself.
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  3. - Top - End - #3
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: [Exalted] New builds with the CharGen Errata

    I actually like having to work for the cool stuff instead of having it handed to me at chargen. Plus, I think it might now be possible for a dedicated munchkin to start an Essence 5 Solar with Solar Sorcery. One good Total Annihilation can really muck up a campaign.

    EDIT: Also, I disapprove of decoupling Willpower from Virtues, but that's because I've always thought of Willpower as the "fifth Virtue".
    Last edited by Teln; 2010-10-27 at 03:21 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Book of Erotic Fantasy
    Love Life of an Ooze: One ooze. Idiot hits ooze. Two oozes.
    If you use a blood-based McGuffin in a campaign with a vampire PC, plan for what will happen when said PC sticks it in his mouth.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Titan in the Playground
     
    The Rose Dragon's Avatar

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    Default Re: [Exalted] New builds with the CharGen Errata

    Quote Originally Posted by Teln View Post
    I actually like having to work for the cool stuff instead of having it handed to me at chargen. Plus, I think it might now be possible for a dedicated munchkin to start an Essence 5 Solar with Solar Sorcery. One good Total Annihilation can really muck up a campaign.
    It already was possible for a beginning character to be a Solar Circle Sorcerer with 7 SCS spells. Sure, he'd have, like, no Willpower to actually cast those spells, but with flaws, you could totally do it.

    EDIT: This is, of course, ignoring the oft-overlooked and, pre-Scroll of Heroes, completely useless clause that says you cannot start a game with Solar Circle Sorcery.
    Last edited by The Rose Dragon; 2010-10-27 at 03:25 PM.
    I use black for sarcasm.


    Call me Rose, or The Rose Dragon. Rose Dragon is someone else entirely.

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  5. - Top - End - #5
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: [Exalted] New builds with the CharGen Errata

    Quote Originally Posted by Tengu_temp View Post
    My favorite part of this errata is what it did with virtues.
    I have to wholeheartedly agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teln View Post
    I actually like having to work for the cool stuff instead of having it handed to me at chargen.
    What exactly are you implying? You already were 'handed' cool stuff at chargen. You started with 10 charms, crazy attribute scores and abilities, essence out the whazoo, and the opportunity to have ancient first age artifacts and such.

    Either you're implying we should all start with absolutely no charms or artifacts or anything, at the moment of Exaltation, and spend 10+ sessions just getting the bare basics of the system, or this is just sour grapes because the errata is all new and scary, me thinks.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: [Exalted] New builds with the CharGen Errata

    Quote Originally Posted by Xefas View Post
    What exactly are you implying? You already were 'handed' cool stuff at chargen. You started with 10 charms, crazy attribute scores and abilities, essence out the whazoo, and the opportunity to have ancient first age artifacts and such.

    Either you're implying we should all start with absolutely no charms or artifacts or anything, at the moment of Exaltation, and spend 10+ sessions just getting the bare basics of the system, or this is just sour grapes because the errata is all new and scary, me thinks.
    Don't go around putting words in my mouth. Do I like being able to make a starting character with a ship that can sail on land? Yes. Do I like being able to slaughter entire geographic regions? Yes. Do I like being able to start as a sorcerer? Yes. Do I approve of people running ridiculously high-power game (as in, >1,000 bonus experience at chargen)? Yes. However, I do not appreciate being forced to allow this, especially when there's a good chance that the character generator will let munchkins run wild with Celestial Sorcery and half the Athletics tree, and let the newbie who started at Essence 2 without a perfect and a boatload of Crafting, Investigation and Bureaucracy Charms get blown to bits in the first battle (although I will admit that the character generator isn't the only problem in that situation).
    Quote Originally Posted by Book of Erotic Fantasy
    Love Life of an Ooze: One ooze. Idiot hits ooze. Two oozes.
    If you use a blood-based McGuffin in a campaign with a vampire PC, plan for what will happen when said PC sticks it in his mouth.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: [Exalted] New builds with the CharGen Errata

    Quote Originally Posted by Teln View Post
    However, I do not appreciate being forced to allow this...
    Right here is a tertiary issue. You're operating under a fallacy of false dichotomy. You aren't being forced. Your options are not "Use these new rules or stop playing Exalted". Nothing is stopping you from using the old rules.

    However, as for the rest, these rules don't really allow you to do anything you couldn't already have done. You can just do so sooner than before. Regardless of what character generation you use, there can still be someone with Celestial Circle Sorcery and half the Athletics tree relatively early in the game, alongside someone with Essence 2 who doesn't have any combat charms to speak of. This isn't an issue of the character generation, which is what we're talking about now.

    The problem you seem to have with the system is one I completely agree with. Exalted rewards system mastery to a degree that I believe becomes antithetical to a positive roleplaying experience after a certain point. D&D does too. So does GURPs and BESM and most RPGs. There are roleplaying games out there that do not reward system mastery while still providing a positive mechanical game to work with. I love those games. The only reason I don't only play those is 1) D&D/Exalted/GURPs/etc are more popular, and you can't play if you have no one to play with, and 2) I love Exalted's setting. I love Planescape's setting. Etc.

    However, that has nothing to do with the character generation mechanics or errata, which is what the thread is meant to discuss.

  8. - Top - End - #8

    Default Re: [Exalted] New builds with the CharGen Errata

    IMO, the chargen changes seem out of whack unless they also look at the XP charts. Especially virtues and willpower; if they're going to drop the bonus point cost, they should drop the XP cost as well. Dropping the "your virtues must be this high to reach 10 WP" rule would also be nice, since as is you're still rewarded for lopsided virtues.

    I kinda liked the rules that capped abilities at 3 pre-BP and that insisted that half your charms be caste/favored. I dislike the fervor with which some WW fans harp on XP disparities for different builds, but this system encourages you to avoid your caste/favored abilities (which you can buy up more cheaply in-game) while picking up essentially another favorite for no extra cost at chargen. The old way, you could go deeper into favored trees than you could into nonfavored ones, so there was an immediate benefit to focusing on what you're good at rather than being an XP miser.

    The extra specialties, cheaper charms, and bonus points are all take-it-or-leave-it type things. Yes, more toys are always nice. Nothing to be bothered about, but it doesn't look like there's much reason for them either.

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