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    Default [nWoD] Question about different supernaturals in the same group

    Evenin'!

    My group and I decided to try out White Wolf's nWoD for the first time.
    Now, since we're all used to playing D&D and having different races or monstrous races (most of us at least, one player always plays humans ), is handling different supernaturals (and a human) in the same group explained somewhere in the books?
    And if not, how would you make it playable?

    I know that Monte Cook's WoD covers that, but that setting isn't nearly as developed as nWoD.

    Thanks in advance
    Last edited by PrGo; 2010-10-28 at 03:34 PM.

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    Default Re: [nWoD] Question about races

    I wouldn't do it. Different supernatural templates are created mostly for different styles and power levels, and mixing them might cause problems later on, especially if you include a Mage somewhere.

    Though speaking of races, I would say you should have no problems having both a black and a white guy in the same pack or whatever.
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    Default Re: [nWoD] Question about races

    Quote Originally Posted by The Rose Dragon View Post
    Though speaking of races, I would say you should have no problems having both a black and a white guy in the same pack or whatever.
    Naw, I didn't mean it like that xD

    That's the habit of D&D talking

    Gotta edit the name then.

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    Default Re: [nWoD] Question about races

    Quote Originally Posted by The Rose Dragon View Post
    I wouldn't do it. Different supernatural templates are created mostly for different styles and power levels, and mixing them might cause problems later on, especially if you include a Mage somewhere.
    Actually, nWoD is pretty good about having multiple different types of supernatural beings in the same group. The overall power discrepancy isn't that all that bad, and all of them can be made to work together with relatively little effort (provided you can come up with a reason for a Werewolf, a Vampire, and a Mage to all work together, since none of them really should like each other all that much).

    Just be careful to make the game take place mostly at night if you have any Vampires in the group.

    Edit: I should clarify that it makes it a heck of a lot harder on the ST to run with more than one type of supernatural in a single group, though, since they all have their own special rules that need to be remembered. As well as their own specific needs and enemies.
    Last edited by senrath; 2010-10-28 at 03:40 PM.
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    Default Re: [nWoD] Question about different supernaturals in the same group

    You *can* manage different supernaturals in the same group, but they won't all be at the same power levels. I don't know WoD well enough to suggest starting xp you could give to the weaker characters to make them more even with the stronger ones, but that's something you could well do.

    A mixed group of vampires and other things is likely to be tricky, because having characters pretty much unable to act during the day while everyone else can can get frustrating for them. It's doable, though.

    Try to have characters that don't have strong reasons to kill each other, or at least have stronger reasons to work together, or at least can't easily kill each other by accident. Autumn Court Changelings can throw lots of fire around, and therefore do not play well with vampires. Same with Mages that use a lot of fire, or Geists using a lot of Pyre-Flame manifestations. Similarly, Werewolves and Vampires can go into uncontrolled rages and can be built to really shred things in melee, and you do not want squishy social characters stuck in close quarters with them when that happens.

    As a general guideline, I think Vamps, Changelings, and Werewolves are pretty close in power (werewolves maybe a bit lower, plus vampires have their obvious disadvantages), Geists tend to be stronger than most because it's hard to kill them and make them stay dead, and Mages usually will be stronger than everyone else.

    I don't know of any books with sections on playing different supernaturals in the same party, though it's certainly done enough.

    EDIT: And seconded on the special needs. You might want to have "recharge" or "downtime" segments so the vamp can get blood, the Geist can frolic about in dingy basements looking for Plasm, the Mage can get mana, etc. It'll also make things easier if they have a single, centralized home base to stay it instead of keeping track of traveling all over the place, especially since vampires need to sleep somewhere and werewolves gain lots of benefits from having a home base. Having areas where each type can regain power nearby each other also makes things convenient.
    Story-wise separation allows for more tension and more tough decisions (do I go get mana when I know the Seers of the Throne are looking for me, or hang out with the vampire while he goes hunting so I have backup if I get jumped?) but having the party all over the place tends to be a hassle.
    Last edited by SurlySeraph; 2010-10-28 at 03:48 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thespianus View Post
    I fail to see how "No, that guy is too fat to be hurt by your fire" would make sense.

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    Default Re: [nWoD] Question about races

    Quote Originally Posted by The Rose Dragon View Post
    I wouldn't do it. Different supernatural templates are created mostly for different styles and power levels, and mixing them might cause problems later on, especially if you include a Mage somewhere.
    In oWoD maybe, but nWoD was designed so that crossovers weren't a complete cluster****. Sure, different templates are better at different things, but so what? In a straight fight, none are really that superior.

    Mages, in fact, have very little staying power, unless they spent a ton of XP on rotes - and in that case their Arcana won't be very high.

    Although Prometheans should never be in the same party as anyone else. Especially Vampires and Werewolves.
    Last edited by Yuki Akuma; 2010-10-28 at 03:45 PM.
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    Default Re: [nWoD] Question about different supernaturals in the same group

    Did it in oWoD. Ran a story where the last thing anybody remembered was a bright flash of white light, and there was a series of plot points they had to make their way through to get their memories back. In order to get through a majority of these points, they had to overcome their natural enmities and work together, although a few could be handled by a single character (but never the same one twice).
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    Default Re: [nWoD] Question about races

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki_Akuma View Post
    Although Prometheans should never be in the same party as anyone else. Especially Vampires and Werewolves.
    Y'know what? I completely forgot that Promethean: The Created was a nWoD book. Yeah, don't let anyone play one unless everyone in the group is playing one.
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    Default Re: [nWoD] Question about different supernaturals in the same group

    I don't have the Prometheans book, so I just have to ask: why?
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    Default Re: [nWoD] Question about different supernaturals in the same group

    Quote Originally Posted by The Rose Dragon View Post
    I don't have the Prometheans book, so I just have to ask: why?
    Prometheans produce an effect called 'Disquiet'. It tends to make humans suspicious and paranoid... and triggers Rage in Werewolves and Frenzy in Vampires.

    The effects of Disquiet are always active, and in all but a few cases become even worse any time they use a Transmutation.

    There's one group of Transmutations that control Disquiet, and one of them even nullifies it, but it's one Pyros per scene and the Transmutation that does that is something like four dots.
    Last edited by Yuki Akuma; 2010-10-28 at 03:53 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeo View Post
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    Default Re: [nWoD] Question about different supernaturals in the same group

    Prometheans cause Disquiet, which makes those around them a) slightly insane, and b) tend to hate them. They also create Wastelands, meaning that everything around them tends to fall apart after a while.

    Different types of Prometheans cancel out each others' unnatural-ness and reduce these effects.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thespianus View Post
    I fail to see how "No, that guy is too fat to be hurt by your fire" would make sense.

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    Default Re: [nWoD] Question about different supernaturals in the same group

    It's difficult, but much easier than in the oWoD, to run a mixed-supernatural group in the nWoD. Each type has its own strengths and weaknesses, and you'll have to take into account each one when STing for a mixed group.

    1. Vampires

    Vampires generally can't function during the day, and there's that whole blood-sucking thing, which other supernaturals might not like. On the other hand, if a vampire has a steady supply of blood, he can recover his mana-equivalent, vitae, much faster than other supernaturals. There's also the increased survivability of being undead, so they're not as fragile as mortals.

    Note that vampires are much better at being shadowy masterminds than frontline combantants. All vampires have access to the Vinculum, better known as the Blood Bond, to "recruit" minions to his cause. Ventrue and Gangrel have Animalism, which lets them use animal minions, Daeva have Majesty, which makes them supernaturally likable to others, and Ventrue have Dominate, which is outright mind control.

    2. Werewolves

    I don't have much experience with werewolves in the nWoD, but I do know that they rank among the best physical fighters among the supernaturals. A werewolf has a good chance of taking down a vampire (it's not an autowin like in the oWoD), but he has to go through the latter's minions first (and what decent vampire doesn't have minions?).

    3. Mages

    From what I've encountered, mages are gods when they have enough prep time. Otherwise, they're squishy wizards.

    4. Sin-Eaters

    Powerful, hard to kill, and virtually no supernatural weaknesses. They do have a problem refilling their mana-equivalent, plasm, compared to other supernatural types.

    One thing I find very interesting about sin-eaters is that murder is not a serious Synergy violation but manslaughter is. That's right. Premeditated murder is a-okay for sin-eaters, but killing someone because you texted while driving is a heinous crime.

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    Default Re: [nWoD] Question about different supernaturals in the same group

    It's the intent that matters - remember, Synergy does not measure morality at all. Sin-Eaters are completely divorced from mortal Morality.

    Accidental death plays havoc with their link with the death god in their soul, while doing it on purpose is a-okay from the Geist's viewpoint.
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeo View Post
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    Default Re: [nWoD] Question about different supernaturals in the same group

    Unless you kill someone just to kill them. Which is an automatic synergy drop. On the plus side, it's also an instant full heal and recharge.
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    Default Re: [nWoD] Question about different supernaturals in the same group

    Oh yeah, you have to have a reason for killing them...

    Also, when it comes to durability, Prometheans win hands down. They don't suffer wound penalties at all, and can keep going even if all but their last wound point is filled with aggravated damage - and they can come back from the dead without the downsides Sin-Eaters suffer. They're also immune to poisons and drugs, and don't need to eat as much as regular folks. And they can go two days without sleep.

    They can also spend Pyros to increase their physical attributes... meaning they can increase their health temporarily, to be even more resilient.
    Last edited by Yuki Akuma; 2010-10-28 at 04:03 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeo View Post
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    Default Re: [nWoD] Question about different supernaturals in the same group

    The current setup would be a Vampire (probably Daeva), Mage, human and maybe a Rahu Werewolf. They could function, given a good reason, right? ...riiiiight?

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    Default Re: [nWoD] Question about different supernaturals in the same group

    Given a good reason, yes. But the human is going to need some help (more experience, better equipment, that kind of thing), even if he's using the Hunter rules.
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    Default Re: [nWoD] Question about different supernaturals in the same group

    I always had the idea, never tried it though, that Geist and Mage could work well, at least thematically. It would be relatively more easier to make up a reason for both of them joining up and not killing each other.

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    Default Re: [nWoD] Question about different supernaturals in the same group

    As stated above, the mortal will be underpowered, though the Hunter template helps mitigate mortal squishiness.

    Might I suggest that they work for a supernatural detective agency? The various supernaturals might have an uneasy truce of sorts, and the party is one group that's trying to prevent a supernatural bloodbath. Their duties could range from protecting the Masquerade to reining in marauding Morality 0 killing machines.

    Or you can go for a Good (Neutral) vs. Evil plot, where one group of supernaturals favors peaceful coexistence with mortals while the other wants to subjugate them. Each group has different kinds of supernaturals as members as well as friendly mortal allies/minions.

    Or perhaps there is one mixed group for Good and different warring groups for Evil in your game. The World of Darkness if flexible enough for whatever type of game you want to run.

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    Default Re: [nWoD] Question about different supernaturals in the same group

    The first thing to understand is that nWoD is not at all like Dungeons and Dragons. It's less about the combat, and more about story-telling. If you can understand and accept that, you should also be able to accept the fact that the supernatural creatures are not mechanically equal in any way.
    The groups you mentioned might all work together, given good reason, but they are not going to be mechanically equal. You should also keep in mind that nWoD is not really meant for hack-and-slash style games (with the exception of werewolf and hunter).

    Might I suggest starting with a normal human game, and as time goes on, each individual character is slowly changed? After a few stories as blue-book mortals, perhaps a vampire takes an interest in one character. Several stories later, said character is embraced. Meanwhile, a group of strange people who identify with wolves are showing an odd interest in another, and a few stories after his friend's embrace, Joe Werewolf begins to experience the events leading up to his first change. Throughout all this, their buddy the mage-to-be is slowly going insane, until one day he signs his name at the bottom of a "tower" and unlocks magical powers. Frightened by everything that is happening to his friends, Bob joins up with a government group known as Taskforce: Valkyrie, so that he can better defend himself if they decide to kill him or something.

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    Default Re: [nWoD] Question about different supernaturals in the same group

    Quote Originally Posted by tahu88810 View Post
    The first thing to understand is that nWoD is not at all like Dungeons and Dragons. It's less about the combat, and more about story-telling.
    Why do people keep saying this? It's really not true. Any game with a combat system can be hack and slash, and any game can be focused on social roleplaying.

    Almost all of the mechanics of nWoD are focused on combat. Face it. There's little about the game that automagically makes it roleplaying-focused.
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeo View Post
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    Default Re: [nWoD] Question about different supernaturals in the same group

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki_Akuma View Post
    Why do people keep saying this? It's really not true. Any game with a combat system can be hack and slash, and any game can be focused on social roleplaying.

    Almost all of the mechanics of nWoD are focused on combat. Face it. There's little about the game that automagically makes it roleplaying-focused.
    Actually, pretty much all games are the same. You don't need a mechanic to be able to roleplay. You generally do need one, however, to have combat.
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    Default Re: [nWoD] Question about different supernaturals in the same group

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki_Akuma View Post
    Why do people keep saying this? It's really not true. Any game with a combat system can be hack and slash, and any game can be focused on social roleplaying.

    Almost all of the mechanics of nWoD are focused on combat. Face it. There's little about the game that automagically makes it roleplaying-focused.
    The title that the game's respective 'master holds seems to have a lot of sway sometimes. When you have a "Dungeonmaster", people think "oh, it's going to involve a dungeon, and dungeon = combat", but a "Storyteller" for some reason triggers a reaction of "oh, it's about the story". Call of Cthulhu has the "Keeper", who controls everyone's fate with the hand of a uncaring and merciless (Elder) god.
    Last edited by The Glyphstone; 2010-10-28 at 06:35 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

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    Default Re: [nWoD] Question about different supernaturals in the same group

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    The title that the game's respective 'master holds seems to have a lot of sway sometimes. When you have a "Dungeonmaster", people think "oh, it's going to involve a dungeon, and dungeon = combat", but a "Storyteller" for some reason triggers a reaction of "oh, it's about the story". Call of Cthulhu has the "Keeper", who controls everyone's fate with the hand of a uncaring and merciless (Elder) god.
    An elder god named Glyphstone. mwahahaMwaHaHaMWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
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    Default Re: [nWoD] Question about different supernaturals in the same group

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki_Akuma View Post
    Why do people keep saying this? It's really not true. Any game with a combat system can be hack and slash, and any game can be focused on social roleplaying.

    Almost all of the mechanics of nWoD are focused on combat. Face it. There's little about the game that automagically makes it roleplaying-focused.
    Because the game's combat mechanics, as with all other mechanics, are clearly there primarily for the purpose of assisting in roleplay, as opposed to story-less dungeon-crawls and the like?

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    Default Re: [nWoD] Question about different supernaturals in the same group

    Quote Originally Posted by tahu88810 View Post
    Because the game's combat mechanics, as with all other mechanics, are clearly there primarily for the purpose of assisting in roleplay, as opposed to story-less dungeon-crawls and the like?
    ...What the hell are you talking about?

    They're there to resolve combat situations. Like the combat rules in any other roleplaying game.
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeo View Post
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