fighter only group, or mostly non spellcasters

[Korivan]

Looking for a good grouping of monsters and challenges for a group consisting of mostly barbarians, fighters, bards, maybe a cleric. My group is more for the melee stlye and its becoming harder to challenge them without using mage, but with that im usually downplaying the casters that its not even worth it. My biggest problem is noone wants to use mages (they think just because they have a d4 HD they frail and usless), and only 1 maybe two are willing to use a cleric from time to time.

I do try to show them how to use a mage when i play, but many times i'm accused of "cheating" or "powergaming". None of my rolls are fudged, nor am i breaking the rules (sometimes close to bending based on wording), but they dont see how i can do the things that i do. One time had a gestalt (we dont have a big group so we gestalt alot), wizard/factotum. Sure, i wasnt that great at first. But by lvl5 or 6 i was clearing most encounters on my own. Then i backed off after killing a boss off in 1 round at lvl 8, to just buffing and debuffing for the rest of the session and even the campaign. I'm by group consensus (sorry for spelling), to use only those, and personal protections.

So ya, just giving a little background on my group, sorry. Anyways, how do i handle my group with kiddy gloves without them knowing it?

[jiriku]

Honest opinion: kiddy gloves are boring, and no one respects a DM who's a pushover. Make them fear for their character's lives. If they're interested in facing martial opponents, by all means, give them what they want. Ogres, trolls, giants, ettins, and dragons (use the xorvintaal template from MMV) come to mind. How about an ogre barbarian that does brutal damage with a massive greatsword, and an ogre fighter with a chain-tripper build? An advanced ettin with some shadow templates (to give it higher Dex) and Robilar's Gambit/Combat Reflexes should be a frightening opponent. Even animal foes like lions, tigers, bears (oh my), krackens, and war elephants are fun foes.

tl;dr Your players are telling you they want to face foes who fight like them. Go ahead and do it. But don't put on kid gloves. Tear them apart using their own tools. They should fear you as the DM.

[Radar]

Hmm... it would depend on, how do they build and use their melee characters. Do they just hack anything in sight, or do they employ a more tactical approach (flanking, lockdown, etc.)? I assume, they don't optimise much, right?

Maybe some obvious tactical problems, that would require non-standard solutions. For example they are stroming a tower with an open staircase inside (mostly empty tower with stairs around the inner wall) and there are some archers shooting them from the top. A tower shield might save them a lot of hurt. If they don't have any, they might make a substitution from a strudy wooden door or a table.
Other types of terrain advantage, that make seemingly weak foes less so: barricades, caltrops, non-magical darkness.

I was thinking about pitting such a group against a single melee character optimised for battlefield control, but it might be flaged as powergaming.

Maybe a mirror room like in the final duel in Enter the Dragon?

In general: good ideas are those, that impade PCs without killing them, if they make a mistake.

[nedz]

(they think just because they have a d4 HD they frail and usless)

I think that they might need some education

Send them up against an illusionist, make them play the role of Don Quixote.

Don't get me wrong, theres nothing I like more than to run this sort of game, but it gets a bit all the same very quickly. Open their horizons.

[jiriku]

(they think just because they have a d4 HD they frail and usless)

I do try to show them how to use a mage when i play, but many times i'm accused of "cheating" or "powergaming" ... after killing a boss off in 1 round ... I'm by group consensus (sorry for spelling), to use only [buffs and debuffs], and personal protections.

Your group gives me cognitive dissonance. They also sound like some whiny little babies. I hear that repeated character death teaches maturity.

Would you like stats on that ettin? I find myself wanting to help you to hurt them.

[dsmiles]

One word:

Housecats

[Show]

If they play hack-and-slash, there's not much you can do. Even if they learned that mages rock, they might not want to play them if it just doesn't suit their style of play.
However, if they are more tactically minded, show them the tactical value of a battlefield control spellcaster. You might even want to take 'baby steps' by sending a gish NPC to help them in a few battles(before dying, of course. DMPCs are a bad idea in the long term).
If you have the second type of group, once they see the value of having 1 or more spellcasters in the party, they'll soon warm up to the idea, if only as a multiclassing option.

[faceroll]

Use tome of battle.

I'm guessing that they are able to wipe any encounter where they can all charge up and start beating on it, right? And if they can't do that, then they are in a lot of trouble?

[Eloel]

Send to them non-spellcaster enemies that don't use their tactics. Stuff mounted on birds that shoot arrows. Stuff that have a burrow speed. Stuff that are incorporeal.
What they cannot charge, they'll learn to fear.

[Endarire]

A level 7 core Wizard can do the famous solid fog + Evard's black tentacles combo. Unless your team has an uber Escape Artist check or means to escape these areas, they're probably dead.

As for challenging your group in similar styles, perhaps remind them that magic is a focal point of the game. At least 1/3 the core books are devoted to explaining how to cast magic, spell descriptions, magic item descriptions, and creatures with magical abilities or that were made by magic.

You're getting to the point where a single crowd control spell will end or contain the battle. Glitterdust, stinking cloud, web, grease, and even color spray can still shut down a fight.

Remind them that rules work both ways. If you can do it, so can they, and vice versa.