A Basic Psionics Overview? [3.5]

[Zieu]

I'm looking at a few psionics classes and whatnot purely for "what if" value, as there are no groups nearby and I'm hesitant to join PbP.

However, I don't own Complete Psionics and haven't been able to find a player-submitted guide using my Google-fu, so can anyone help me out? Things like manifester level, "expending your psionic focus", and all that just go right over my head.

If it helps, I'm not really looking at schools and whatnot, I'm looking at a Soulbow in particular and don't know how to make that work/understand it mechanically.

Halp?

[kamikasei]

Complete Psionic is not the main book for 3.5 psionics. The Expanded Psionics Handbook is. Most of its content (minus things like wealth tables and some monsters such as mind flayers) is on d20srd.org.

[Noodles2375]

For a basic walkthrough of how to build effective psychic warriors:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=162701

Same for psions:
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boa...p?topic=1036.0

That should be a place to start, investigating what others have done/do and what they are capable of in general.

[Eloel]

The most important rule in psionics is:

Now playground, say it with me:

You can only spend as much as your manifester level in powerpoints on a single power.

If it wasn't for this rule, you could trash the whole psionics system.

[Zieu]

Ok, looking at this feat for a Soul Knife 2/Soul Bow 5. Looking through those guides and assorted links, I couldn't find anything explaining psionic focus or how one expends it/gains it in the first place....explain please?

[Aotrs Commander]

Ok, looking at this feat for a Soul Knife 2/Soul Bow 5. Looking through those guides and assorted links, I couldn't find anything explaining psionic focus or how one expends it/gains it in the first place....explain please?

Here.

Typically, expending your psionic focus is part of another action (like using a psionic feat such as Psionic Weapon or a using metapsionic feat) and is not an action in itself.

Psionic Meditation lets you meditate ro regain focus as Move Action, thus making it a feat pretty much always worth having if you use powers or have any psionic feats. (Soul Knife/Soul Bow may be one where it's use is more borderline, though.)

[Zieu]

Here.

Typically, expending your psionic focus is part of another action (like using a psionic feat such as Psionic Weapon or a using metapsionic feat) and is not an action in itself.

Psionic Meditation lets you meditate ro regain focus as Move Action, thus making it a feat pretty much always worth having if you use powers or have any psionic feats. (Soul Knife/Soul Bow may be one where it's use is more borderline, though.)

So a full-round concentration check to gain focus, expend as a free action the next turn to gain assorted benefits/profit..? Ok. Sounds like the Ranger's Order of the Bow Initiate to me, but now for psions. Hmm...

[Yuki Akuma]

So a full-round concentration check to gain focus, expend as a free action the next turn to gain assorted benefits/profit..? Ok. Sounds like the Ranger's Order of the Bow Initiate to me, but now for psions. Hmm...

Psionic Meditation (Wis 13, Concentration 7 ranks) lets you gain psionic focus as a move action.

You want this feat if you ever plan to use psionic focus.

[Keld Denar]

Rule 1: Thou shalt never spend more PP on a power than you have MLs.

Rule 2: Thou shalt never spend more PP on a power than you have MLs.

That takes into account EVERYTHING. If a metapsionic feat (or augementation) requires you to spend extra PP on a power, you count those. If an item or ability (like Overchannel or Wild Surge) increases your ML temporarily, you can increase the amount of PP you can spend. If an item reduces the cost of manifesting a power by 1, that means that that one PP doesn't count when you are determining how many PP you can spend on the power. Etc.

[Myth]

I completely suck at Psionics. However I've noticed that when breaking action economy is concerned, they are always mentioned.

[Keld Denar]

There are a couple of powers (Scism, Synchronicity, Anticipatory Strike, Temporal Acceleration) that kinda warp action economy, but they REALLY REALLY REALLY cut into your "per day" staying power.

[Greenish]

…a Soul Knife 2/Soul Bow 5.

You can't enter Soul Bow before you have 5 levels in other classes.

Anyhow, Soul Knife/Bow don't really use psionic powers.

[Synapse]

Psionics Basics
Psionics and casters are essentially the same thing. You can view psionic as the third part of the "arcane / divine / psionic" triad
1) Manifester level is the psionic equivalent to caster level.
2) Psionic creatures are those with power point pools. They can gain Psionic Focus. Psionic Focus is used or expended to power certain feats (like metapsionic feats).
3) Your resource is the Power Point. Spending PP is akin to mana in most videogames...you have a number, your powers cost another number. You deduce the power's cost from your pool to manifest it. You cannot manifest a power if its cost is greater than your current PP.
4) Many powers can be augmented, which is a customization. Powers that can be augmented show you ways to increase its cost that also change its effects.
5) You cannot spend more power points in a manifestation than your manifester level. This is to limit how much you can improve a power with augmentations and metapsionics.
6) Manifesting psionic magic, akin to divine magic, is not hindered by armor. It's components are merely descriptive too (a psion doesn't need to move nor use a component pouch. If he can perform a mental action and has the PP, he can manifest a power he knows)
7) The SRD contains the Expanded Psionics Handbook, which is the core psionic book. Complete Psionic is just an extra, like other books from the Complete series.
8) The book itself recommends that you use what they call "magic/psionic transparency", which consists primarily of seeing psionic magic as magic just like divine and arcane (thus dispel magic works on psionics, dispel power works on magic. Same for AMF, spell/power resistance and the like). You don't have to, but there's no reason not to use it.


Most powers are analog to arcane casting (it's what sorcerers wish they could be). Overall the system has a fairer balance and is much more customizable. The energy damage powers are paragons of customization for example: you can choose the type of damage, and each has its own secondary effect like more damage, forcing different saves or ignoring hardness.
Some of the psionic powers are fairly nice too. Hustle is a swift action that grants a move action. Schism gives you a second purely mental action per round (like concentrating or manifesting) at reduced manifester level. Form of Doom brings lots of lovecraftian love to your psychic warrior (which is the ultimate single class gish, the most effective one at that)

[lsfreak]

8) The book itself recommends that you use what they call "magic/psionic transparency", which consists primarily of seeing psionic magic as magic just like divine and arcane (thus dispel magic works on psionics, dispel power works on magic. Same for AMF, spell/power resistance and the like). You don't have to, but there's no reason not to use it.

And there's a very good reason to use it. Mainly that when you don't psionics tends to break, because unless a world is built around psionics, there'll generally be no enemies that can realistically forge defenses (SR, counterspelling, dispelling) against you.

@Action Economy:
Psionics isn't really any more broken than good ol' arcane magic. Time Stop, Celerity, Quicken + reducers, Arcane Fusion, Arcane Spellsurge. Unlike Arcane though, psionics allows melee to compete via PsyWarrior or Psionic Fist combined with Hustle, Lion's Charge, and/or Schism-via-feat.

[Yuki Akuma]

You can't counterspell powers. No, not even with Dispel Magic.

[Zieu]

You can't enter Soul Bow before you have 5 levels in other classes.

Hmm. I've been looking at this excerpt on the WotC website and it doesn't mention that anywhere. Where is your information stated?

[Dusk Eclipse]

Hmm. I've been looking at this excerpt on the WotC website and it doesn't mention that anywhere. Where is your information stated?

Check the pre-requisites, it says autohypnosis 8 ranks, you maximum # of skill ranks is class level +3.
Besides most prg classes can´t be entered before level 5 (barring shenenanigans)

[Zieu]

Check the pre-requisites, it says autohypnosis 8 ranks, you maximum # of skill ranks is class level +3.
Besides most prg classes can´t be entered before level 5 (barring shenenanigans)

Aw...it seems my shenanigans have indeed been barred then. Maybe I'll throw some Ranger levels in there then...

[Keld Denar]

Why? You'd want to advance Soulknife as much as you can so when you get into Soulbow, you get the best progression from it.

[Zieu]

Why? You'd want to advance Soulknife as much as you can so when you get into Soulbow, you get the best progression from it.

But with a few levels of Ranger I get full BAB progression and archery-related bonus feats that also work with Soulbow (Rapid Shot at level 2? Yes please!)

[Yuki Akuma]

But with a few levels of Ranger I get full BAB progression and archery-related bonus feats that also work with Soulbow (Rapid Shot at level 2? Yes please!)

But with five levels in Soulknife you'll have mind arrows worth a damn.

[Zieu]

But with five levels in Soulknife you'll have mind arrows worth a damn.

Well....the free draw ability from Soul Knife 5 is redundant; Soul Bow gets to create an arrow as a free action from the get go, and shape mind blade doesn't work for arrows, I think. And Psychic Strike is a move action, which wouldn't let me use Rapid Shot from Ranger 2...and 1d8? Eh....I can pick up a +1 abililty enhancement that can do that by 2nd level of Soulbow, and a +1 bonus to mind arrows by 3rd.

I think I'll stick to Soul Knife 2/Ranger 3/Soul Bow X and see how that build ends up.

[Yuki Akuma]

...Levels in Soulbow and Soulknife stack to determine some Soulbow special abilities. You want five levels.

Ranger is not a good class. Really.

[RelentlessImp]

The most important rule in psionics is:

Now playground, say it with me:

You can only spend as much as your manifester level in powerpoints on a single power.

If it wasn't for this rule, you could trash the whole psionics system.

Increase to 72pt font, bold, and underline that line in XPH, please.

[The Glyphstone]

Psionics 101:

1- Go play a video game where the casters have a 'mana' pool.
2- ???
3- Profit!

You now understand 80% of psionics' complexity. Augmenting, focuses, and NOT SPENDING MORE THAN YOUR MANIFESTER LEVEL are the remaining 20%.

[Cog]

...Levels in Soulbow and Soulknife stack to determine some Soulbow special abilities. You want five levels.

Does that really amount to more than just another +1 enhancement bonus, at least until you've finished out Soulbow? It seemed to me some dips would be worth it. A two-level Swordsage dip, say, for the WIS-synergy on top of Zen Archery...

You can get that fourth Soulknife level after Soulbow, as well. After that it's six more levels of 'knife before you get the second boost.

[Psyren]

Does that really amount to more than just another +1 enhancement bonus, at least until you've finished out Soulbow? It seemed to me some dips would be worth it. A two-level Swordsage dip, say, for the WIS-synergy on top of Zen Archery...

You can get that fourth Soulknife level after Soulbow, as well. After that it's six more levels of 'knife before you get the second boost.

I have to agree; I don't think +1 to attack and damage are worth the three extra levels of Soulknife, especially since it doesn't even stack with the score you get to apply to your arrow enhancements. I think some feats are more worthwhile, whether via Fighter, Ranger, Monk (for Kalashtar) or Psywar.

[Zieu]

So.....does creating a mind blade/mind arrow not use Power Points? Because looking through the class info, it doesn't mention Power Points gained per level or how many are used with each ability. Are Soul Knives/Soul Bows just lightweight psionic classes then or am I missing something?

[Psyren]

You are correct, Soulknives/Soulbows do not use power points at all.

The quick and dirty fix is to give them Hidden Talent instead of Wild Talent, per this article.

[Urpriest]

So.....does creating a mind blade/mind arrow not use Power Points? Because looking through the class info, it doesn't mention Power Points gained per level or how many are used with each ability. Are Soul Knives/Soul Bows just lightweight psionic classes then or am I missing something?

You don't need power points to get the mind blade/mind arrow. The only reason they have any power points at all is to access psionic feats. "Lightweight psionic classes" is indeed an accurate description.