Rogue weapons?

[TechnOkami]

In short, what weapons are the best for a rogue?

Does it matter if they dual wield or single wield?

Is wielding two kukri's better than wielding one elven courtblade?

Are there better weapons? oO

Play on little giants, play on.

[Flickerdart]

Rogues want to wield as many weapons as they can, so a pair of short swords is where you'd be at since Rogues are not proficient with the kukri. Your SA doesn't multiply on a critical hit, so range isn't important. Be sure to carry around a spare dagger (hidden) and some darts.

[Dr.Epic]

Does it matter if they dual wield or single wield?

I kind of always thought that that was the route to go with a melee rogue. It works well with sneak attack. As for weapon, daggers: easy to conceal, and you need them if you want to go Invisible Blade (I forget what the other weapons you can use with that classes features are so that's why I'm only saying daggers).

[MyLifeMyMusical]

I usually use (and see) Rogues with two (or all three) of the following:
Rapier and Short Sword, two Daggers and/or two Light Maces

I'd suggest having at least the maces and rapier/ss personally, but there's a certain flavor to daggers that you just can't replace.

[TechnOkami]

Mmk, so then what if I were to tell you all that I was making a Drow, Cleric, Rogue, Eye of Lolth?

[Dusk Eclipse]

Kusarigama, found in the DMG, light weapons that have a reach similar to the spiked chain

[TechnOkami]

Kusarigama, found in the DMG, light weapons that have a reach similar to the spiked chain

Ooh I like that... now I just need to see if weapon finessing it is passable to my GM.

[Curmudgeon]

Feats are precious for Rogues. You'll want to use weapons that you're already proficient in. Basically that means your primary weapon should be a keen rapier, because of its wide threat range. Craven adds a non-dice bonus to sneak attacks, so that bonus will get multiplied on a critical hit.

Two-Weapon Fighting is a poor feat tree. It forces the Rogue to go for in-your-face full attacks, meaning it risks full counterattacks. And it provides no benefit at all when not making a full attack.

Since you can buy Improved Unarmed Strike (Bracers of Striking in Magic of Faerûn for the cheap option, or Fanged Ring in Dragon Magic as the deluxe alternative), that should be your secondary weapon. The reason is the Snap Kick feat, which provides an unarmed strike with any of the following:

• full attack including at least one melee attack
• standard action melee attack
• attack of opportunity
• bonus melee attack (such as from Improved Trip, or casting a touch attack spell)

This is always a superior choice to Two-Weapon Fighting for the Rogue.

For walking around, the Rogue should always have a missile weapon ready to fire. That's going to be either a composite shortbow (most races) or longbow (if Elf). You should never squander an opportunity to hit a flat-footed enemy at the start of combat by moving instead of attacking.

[TechnOkami]

Feats are precious for Rogues. You'll want to use weapons that you're already proficient in. Basically that means your primary weapon should be a keen rapier, because of its wide threat range. Craven adds a non-dice bonus to sneak attacks, so that bonus will get multiplied on a critical hit.

Two-Weapon Fighting is a poor feat tree. It forces the Rogue to go for in-your-face full attacks, meaning it risks full counterattacks. And it provides no benefit at all when not making a full attack.

Since you can buy Improved Unarmed Strike (Bracers of Striking in Magic of Faerûn for the cheap option, or Fanged Ring in Dragon Magic as the deluxe alternative), that should be your secondary weapon. The reason is the Snap Kick feat, which provides an unarmed strike with any of the following:

• full attack including at least one melee attack
• standard action melee attack
• attack of opportunity
• bonus melee attack (such as from Improved Trip, or casting a touch attack spell)

This is always a superior choice to Two-Weapon Fighting for the Rogue.

For walking around, the Rogue should always have a missile weapon ready to fire. That's going to be either a composite shortbow (most races) or longbow (if Elf). You should never squander an opportunity to hit a flat-footed enemy at the start of combat by moving instead of attacking.

Rapiers and single handed crossbows for the Drow, gotcha.

[Reynard]

Ooh I like that... now I just need to see if weapon finessing it is passable to my GM.

Yes. They're light weapons. No need to get DM fiat on Finesse.

You do need it to use the weapons, however, considering their location.

[Grynning]

Rapiers and single handed crossbows for the Drow, gotcha.

In a book called "Drow of the Underdark" there is actually a feat specifically tailored to Drow using the Rapier/Hand-Crossbow combo. The book has all kinds of great stuff for drow PC's if you can find it.

[TechnOkami]

In a book called "Drow of the Underdark" there is actually a feat specifically tailored to Drow using the Rapier/Hand-Crossbow combo. The book has all kinds of great stuff for drow PC's if you can find it.

Oh... oh my...

[Lhurgyof]

Ooh I like that... now I just need to see if weapon finessing it is passable to my GM.

Look up Kusari Gamas and explain to me how it's possible to wield one with a single hand.

[TechnOkami]

Look up Kusari Gamas and explain to me how it's possible to wield one with a single hand.

How or where does weapon finesse state that you must wield it with only one and not two hands?

[Hat-Trick]

He's talking about the fact that the weapon in real life takes two hands, but only needs one in game. The silly things we allow in Dnd.

[TechnOkami]

Mm, yeah I can see that now, my bad. Hm... *shrug*

[Raendyn]

Craven adds a non-dice bonus to sneak attacks, so that bonus will get multiplied on a critical hit.

thats not correct!

(a)CRAVEN

[GENERAL]

Like most sly rogues, you are a dangerous coward. However, your sneak attacks deal more damage than normal.

Prerequisite: Sneak attack class feature, cannot be immune to fear

Benefit: You take a -2 penalty on saving throws against fear effects. However, when making a sneak attack, you deal an extra 1 point of damage per character level.

Rulebook: Champions of Ruin (p. 17)

As to my understanding this is clearly added to sneak attack dmg!

(b)Should the rogue score a critical hit with a sneak
attack, this extra damage is not multiplied.

Rulebook: Player's Handbook (p. 50)

from (a),(b)=>craven does not get multiplied from critical.
(!)this also goes to cripling strike, str dmg does not get multiplied,its part of the sneack attakc dmg!

even though keen rapier is a good thing due to great fluf!

[Yuki Akuma]

When making a sneak attack, you add damage to the attack. Not to the sneak attack.

The sneak attack is the extra xd6 damage, which isn't multiplied - because you don't multiply extra dice of damage.

[mostlyharmful]

Don't forget flasks of acid and alchemists fire, ranged elemental damage touch attacks.... better still if you can talk your DM into allowing weapons that leave your hand while you're under a blink effect to always end up on the material plane...

[Yuki Akuma]

That would completely unbalance Blink.

Even more than it's already unbalanced, I mean.

Why should melee attacks get the miss chance, but not ranged attacks?

[mostlyharmful]

That would completely unbalance Blink.

Even more than it's already unbalanced, I mean.

Why should melee attacks get the miss chance, but not ranged attacks?

because when an object leaves your hands the spell stops affecting it. While your sword is in your hand the Blink effect has it bounce back and forth between planes with you, when you put it down on the table it stops being Blinked so it stays on the table.

Put it anouther way, is there a 20% chance that the rogue is going to wind up on the Ethereal Plane when he shuts off the spell effect?

[freebiewitz]

Though feat wise expensive I always liked the idea of a rogue who uses a dagger whip.

You trip the enemy, get a free attack which also counts as a sneak attack and well you deny them the ability to really move that much. Useful too since your allies will get bonuses to attack a prone enemy with melee weapons.

Another thing I like to see is a rogue who uses the trapsmith skill followed by ranged attacks.

Quick draw feat is pretty damn good to especially if you want to start throwing weapons about. Daggers are good since they can be used as melee and ranged weapons. Though versatile they don't really do that much damage I admit.

But yeah flavor wise I think the dagger whip is the best. Build wise I've never really tried it properly before with a rogue at least. I've used a dagger whip fighter whirlwind combo and that was fun.

[Yora]

He's talking about the fact that the weapon in real life takes two hands, but only needs one in game. The silly things we allow in Dnd.

In real life, the weapon also does not have range. You could use the chain end like a metal whip, but from what I now, you never use the blade end like a flail.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Light weapons are finnesable by default.

[Curmudgeon]

thats not correct!

(b)Should the rogue score a critical hit with a sneak
attack, this extra damage is not multiplied.

Rulebook: Player's Handbook (p. 50)

You're looking a bit too narrowly here, and losing what "this" refers to in your quote.

Sneak Attack
...
This extra damage is 1d6 at 1st level, and it increases by 1d6 every two rogue levels thereafter. Should the rogue score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied.

From the Combat chapter, page 134:

Multiplying Damage
...
Exception: Extra damage dice over and above a weapon’s normal damage, such as that dealt by a sneak attack or the special ability of a flaming sword, are never multiplied.

The Rogue's sneak attack damage from dice is never multiplied. Craven adds a bonus to sneak attack that is not from dice, and you follow the appropriate multiplication rules for all parts of your sneak attack damage.

[Leon]

It depends - im im going to go the Swashbuckler/Daring Outlaw way i'll grab a Courtblade for the dual damage and finessable threat but recently ive been more intersted in Str based Rogues and hitting things with normal weapons.

If i was to go with a Dual small weapon setup i'd grab at least 2 levels of ranger for the Combat style (the other Ranger class features are nice as well)

[Otherworld Odd]

If you're DM would allow it, I'd suggest Sawtooth sabres from the Curse of the Crimson Throne module (it's pathfinder, but it's compatible.) They're treated as light weapons if you're proficient with them, with a pretty good damage output (a d8, I believe). Dual-wield them, of course.

[Greenish]

If you're DM would allow it, I'd suggest Sawtooth sabres from the Curse of the Crimson Throne module (it's pathfinder, but it's compatible.) They're treated as light weapons if you're proficient with them, with a pretty good damage output (a d8, I believe). Dual-wield them, of course.

If they're exotic and don't have anything but being light going on for them, I wouldn't waste a feat. 1d6 from short sword or rapier deal just one average damage less, and don't cost a feat.

[Otherworld Odd]

If they're exotic and don't have anything but being light going on for them, I wouldn't waste a feat. 1d6 from short sword or rapier deal just one average damage less, and don't cost a feat.

Yeah, had to talk my DM into letting me trade a couple of my useless racial features for exotic weapons prof. It's good when you have a flexible DM.

[Gametime]

because when an object leaves your hands the spell stops affecting it. While your sword is in your hand the Blink effect has it bounce back and forth between planes with you, when you put it down on the table it stops being Blinked so it stays on the table.

Put it anouther way, is there a 20% chance that the rogue is going to wind up on the Ethereal Plane when he shuts off the spell effect?

Considering that the spell flat-out states a 20% miss chance to "attacks," and spells also have a 20% chance to not affect the Material Plane, I don't think there's really any basis for your interpretation beyond "Doesn't this seem like it would make sense?"

And, really, we don't have much room to be talking about how a spell that rapidly blinks you back and forth between dimensions should work.