[3.5] Making a Mind Controlling Manipulative Wilder

[NineThePuma]

I have this vision of a chess master manipulator of a Wilder; he's supposed to also represent the far realms some and is a bit of an eldritch abomination. So... Powers? Lix pointed out Assimilate to me, and I like that, but what're some older powers that are rocktastical?

[Psyren]

1) You will want the Educated Wilder ACF; You trade the sucky Volatile Mind ability for more powers, which is the Wilder's biggest weakness. What's more, the bonus powers can come from any list, even the discipline lists.

2) To me, manipulator means "telepath." You therefore will want one of two PrCs - the Thrallherd from the XPH/SRD, or the Cognition Thief from PGtF. The former is more powerful but is usually banned due to having Super Leadership. Both will give your Wilder a Telepath flavor, as well as free powers known.

3) The best powers for Wilders are modal and augmentable. For example, Psionic Dominate is perfect for your manipulator concept, and can be gotten either via one of the two PrCs above, or separately with EK.

[Zaq]

2) To me, manipulator means "telepath." You therefore will want one of two PrCs - the Thrallherd from the XPH/SRD, or the Cognition Thief from PGtF. The former is more powerful but is usually banned due to having Super Leadership. Both will give your Wilder a Telepath flavor, as well as free powers known.

While I agree with your first and third points, this one makes me a bit concerned. Remember, the only worthwhile thing that a Wilder gets that a Psion doesn't is Wild Surge. (The increased BAB isn't really that big of a deal for a primary caster, the skill points are moot due to the Psion's killer INT, and while some of the Wilder's class features are nice, they're not worth the gigantic disparity in powers known.) If you PrC into something that doesn't advance Wild Surge, you're kind of being a chump compared to the Psion who went into the same PrC as you, since you're giving up the only thing that made you distinct. This does mean that Wilders are very limited in PrC selection, unfortunately, from a purely comparative mechanical standpoint.

Of course, this can be likened to the distinction between Clerics and a Favored Souls; the Cleric beats the FS on pretty much every count that matters, but if you don't want the power level of a cleric or if you just adore the flavor of the FS, that doesn't mean that the FS is in any way unplayable. Just that they're inferior to their obvious big brother. In the same vein, if you feel that it would just be too much to have all the powers that a Psion knows (a stance with which I disagree, but hey, maybe I'm not you), go ahead and PrC away from Wilder. Just be aware that you're giving up what really makes you unique and interesting compared to the gold standard of psionics.

[Psyren]

While I agree with your first and third points, this one makes me a bit concerned. Remember, the only worthwhile thing that a Wilder gets that a Psion doesn't is Wild Surge. (The increased BAB isn't really that big of a deal for a primary caster, the skill points are moot due to the Psion's killer INT, and while some of the Wilder's class features are nice, they're not worth the gigantic disparity in powers known.) If you PrC into something that doesn't advance Wild Surge, you're kind of being a chump compared to the Psion who went into the same PrC as you, since you're giving up the only thing that made you distinct. This does mean that Wilders are very limited in PrC selection, unfortunately, from a purely comparative mechanical standpoint.

Advancing Wild Surge isn't actually that important. You will rarely want to surge past +2 or +3, as doing so makes you more likely to enervate and bottom out. Since you only need 3 Wilder levels to for +2 or 7 for +3, that gives you a lot of daylight to play with.

No, what a Wilder needs more than anything else are powers known, which both of those PrCs provide. Practiced Manifester fills any gaps left by dead levels, allowing you to surge at max power regardless.

[Amphetryon]

Wild Surge is often seen as a trap. Just sayin'.

[Psyren]

Wild Surge is often seen as a trap. Just sayin'.

As I said, it's fine if you keep the boost small. But if you're not going to use it at all, you may as well just be a Psion or Erudite.

There are ways to lessen the impact of enervation; Schism, or Sanctified Mind's Partition class feature, or Unconditional Power+Metapower, for instance. Anything that lets you act through the daze or delay its impact. The power point loss is less of a negative because over the long-term, it is offset by the free PP you gain for WS in the first place.

[Noble Savant]

Something important to note, with regards to the Thrallherd at least, is, though it's skill requirements are a bit more difficult for a Wilder to achieve, the Charisma synergy is very nice indeed, making Wilders better Thrallherds.