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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default Racial Rivalries

    Just wondering what everyone's thoughts are on racial rivalries?

    By this I mean which race sets another race's blood to boil so they will want to kill them/beat them/torment them/harass them regardless of any other factors?

    Is it Elf vs Drow, Tiefling vs Deva, Halfling vs Everyone?

    What about Eladrin, Dragonborn, Dwarf, Goliath, Minotaur and all the other player races?

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Racial Rivalries

    My thoughts on racial rivalries are very positive.
    Especially when they're done right.

    They provide good plot hooks, let you build relations between characters in funny ways, and can make things a lot more flavourful.

    I'm not sure about the part about boiling blood, though. But I think it generally helps you to flesh out the campaign if you have various stereotypes and racial rivalries. I mean, considering the halflings reputation (or kender reputation in other worlds =P) of course most people are going to be distrustful of them. Not to mention the usual "dwarf vs elf" or "dwarf vs goblin" or "just about anything vs orc" stuff.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Racial Rivalries

    WinceRind... I agree.

    I guess what I was looking for though as I am somewhat new to the D&D world, what are the stereotypical rivalries?

    Is there some table that lists each race and their primary, secondary and tertiary race rivals, or do we need to make one?

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Racial Rivalries

    From the looks of it, you're using 4E. I don't know if such rivalries were elaborated much in 4E, but in older editions it was like this:

    Elves (Eladrin were just another type of Elf in earlier editions) vs Goblinoids, Orcs, and Drow.

    Dwarves vs Goblinoids, Orcs, and Giants. Dwarves actually got racial combat bonuses in fighting against them since they're more militaristic than elves.

    Drow were generally despised and mistrusted due to their generally evil nature.

    Half-Orcs are generally discriminated against due to their orcish half (or their human half, if they're born into orcish societies)

    Kobolds hate Gnomes because of a pretty evil prank Garl Glittergold played on the Kobold champion Kurtulmak. (Who became a god to avenge his people)

    Orcs hate elves because the Elf god Corellon put out their god Gruumsh's eye.


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  5. - Top - End - #5
    Titan in the Playground
     
    ElfRangerGuy

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    Default Re: Racial Rivalries

    The racial rivalries have been pretty downplayed in 4E, at least as far as being mentioned in the PHB.


    Off the top of my head, 3E mentioned or included the following:

    Drow vs Elves
    Elves vs Orcs
    Dwarves vs Orcs & Goblins
    Dwarves & Gnomes vs Giants
    Gnomes vs Kobolds
    Drow vs Duergar vs Mindflayers
    Beholders vs Beholders
    Chromatic Dragons vs Metallic Dragons

    There's probably some more that I can't remember right now, and most of those should translate fine to 4th Edition (with the exception of the Gnomes, I'm not sure if the new 4E Gnomes are anyone's rivals).

    In addition, 4E adds: Dragonborn vs Tieflings and Drow vs Eladrin
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  6. - Top - End - #6
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Racial Rivalries

    Quote Originally Posted by Ignatius View Post
    Just wondering what everyone's thoughts are on racial rivalries?

    By this I mean which race sets another race's blood to boil so they will want to kill them/beat them/torment them/harass them regardless of any other factors?

    Is it Elf vs Drow, Tiefling vs Deva, Halfling vs Everyone?

    What about Eladrin, Dragonborn, Dwarf, Goliath, Minotaur and all the other player races?
    The rest seem fine, but this one bothers me. I don't know about 4e, but in 3.5 halflings schtick is that no one really hates them, it's more of a mild annoyance due to their loose grasp of what "personal property" means.
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  7. - Top - End - #7
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Racial Rivalries

    I believe it was a shout-out to Dark Sun's cannibal Halflings who see all other races as dinner.

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    Spamalot in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Racial Rivalries

    4e downplays the racial rivalries because the expectation is that all PCs play non-evil characters. In other words, your party should have bigger problems than bickering with each other. This dovetails with 4e's emphasis on each member of the party having a role and teamwork being all but mandatory to bypass harder encounters (including non-combat ones like skill challenges.)

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  9. - Top - End - #9
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Racial Rivalries

    No problems with the party all getting along...

    I have just convinced one of the Eladrin that Kord has a mission for him to accomplish to ensure the future existence of his race.

    So I got to thinking about what race would he feel passionately enough about which is the race I would make the BBEG who had the plan to kill all Eladrin.

    This then led me to think about what all the racial rivalries might be in order for potential future plot hooks for all of the other player.

  10. - Top - End - #10
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    BridgeCity's Avatar

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    Default Re: Racial Rivalries

    I think everything else you mentioned was answered, but Goliaths haven't been yet.

    Goliath's have a racial grudge/war against Giants, specifically the giants found in the mountains. In races of stone there is a prestige class that Goliaths can take that is specifically about fighting Giants and rescuing Goliath slaves from them.

  11. - Top - End - #11
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    Duke of URL's Avatar

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    Default Re: Racial Rivalries

    Racial rivalries are fine, but are strongly setting-specific. Establishing that two particular races (or two subraces of the same race) have an ingrained hatred for each other (or even a one-way hatred) opens up an avenue for fleshing out part of that world, namely, why do those races hate each other? What history caused and nurtured it?
    Last edited by Duke of URL; 2010-11-01 at 09:24 AM.


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  12. - Top - End - #12
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Racial Rivalries

    Quote Originally Posted by Ignatius View Post
    Just wondering what everyone's thoughts are on racial rivalries?

    By this I mean which race sets another race's blood to boil so they will want to kill them/beat them/torment them/harass them regardless of any other factors?

    Is it Elf vs Drow, Tiefling vs Deva, Halfling vs Everyone?

    What about Eladrin, Dragonborn, Dwarf, Goliath, Minotaur and all the other player races?
    Well, rivalries is an understatement for what you mean, for one. As while the dwarves and elves don't put everything aside to kill one another at the drop of the hat, they're still generally viewed as having an active dislike of one another.

    And how did you forget gnomes and kobolds?
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  13. - Top - End - #13
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    hamishspence's Avatar

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    Default Re: Racial Rivalries

    Githyanki/githzerai are probably a good example for

    "have enmity, but will ally given sufficient incentive"

    Specifically, vs mind flayers.
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  14. - Top - End - #14
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Racial Rivalries

    Actually, what's with that anyway? They both know that they're from the same source, so why do they react so negatively to others knowing it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
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  15. - Top - End - #15
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    hamishspence's Avatar

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    Default Re: Racial Rivalries

    Maybe because they've evolved so far apart culturally?
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  16. - Top - End - #16
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Beholder

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    Default Re: Racial Rivalries

    The given fluff is rather quiet about that. We know the original split was from a cultural difference that arose after they gained their freedom, but they don't even hint at what the difference was.

    My personal theory is that Gith can't agree which is the proper end from which to eat a hard-boiled egg.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: Racial Rivalries

    Also "friendly" rivalries aren't too bad, like dwarf vs elf since they are like opposite sides of the same spectrum.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Daemon

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    Default Re: Racial Rivalries

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkEternal View Post
    Also "friendly" rivalries aren't too bad, like dwarf vs elf since they are like opposite sides of the same spectrum.
    Odd way of putting it, but I like it.

    Daemons and Devils are also enemies.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Racial Rivalries

    Quote Originally Posted by RanWilde View Post
    Odd way of putting it, but I like it.

    Daemons and Devils are also enemies.
    That's Demons and Devils.

    Daemons are allies of convenience/mercenaries for either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
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  20. - Top - End - #20
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Daemon

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    Default Re: Racial Rivalries

    I guess I have been playing far too much 40k of late.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Racial Rivalries

    There's also Goblins vs Orcs: in the Great Wheel both races dwell on the same plane, Acheron, with their gods, and they fight in an eternal battle, both bent on the the destruction of the other race.

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    Although maybe this is not so much a "racial" rivality, as much as on the lines of "I'm here, you're here, this Plane is not big enough for both".

    Another one that pops in my mind is Tritons vs Sahuagin (and probabily Kuo-Toas).
    Or Duergar and Mind Flayers.
    Last edited by Cicciograna; 2010-11-01 at 04:57 PM.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Daemon

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    Default Re: Racial Rivalries

    Troglodytes against everybody. Why? Cause they're smelly.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    LOTRfan's Avatar

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    Default Re: Racial Rivalries

    Quote Originally Posted by Coidzor View Post
    Actually, what's with that anyway? They both know that they're from the same source, so why do they react so negatively to others knowing it?
    According to the more obscure fluff, Gith wasn't exactly as nice as everyone seems to think she is. In fact, she was insane. She wanted to bring about the extinction of the Mind Flayers and any other race that could ever become a threat sometime in the future (pretty much everyone). Zerthimon, one of her lieutenants, believed this would bring about their destruction, and civil war started. Gith one, when she murded Zerthimon and forced them into Limbo.

    Quote Originally Posted by RanWilde View Post
    Troglodytes against everybody. Why? Cause they're smelly.
    That explains a lot, actually.
    Last edited by LOTRfan; 2010-11-01 at 05:23 PM.
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  24. - Top - End - #24
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Racial Rivalries

    Quote Originally Posted by RanWilde View Post
    Troglodytes against everybody. Why? Cause they're smelly.
    That's just the lingering cigarette smoke.
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  25. - Top - End - #25
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Daemon

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    Default Re: Racial Rivalries

    Quote Originally Posted by Marnath View Post
    That's just the lingering cigarette smoke.
    An Elf can't stand it when he gets **** under his nose.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Troll in the Playground
     
    herrhauptmann's Avatar

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    Default Re: Racial Rivalries

    Quote Originally Posted by RanWilde View Post
    An Elf can't stand it when he gets **** under his nose.
    Well maybe he shouldn't be so hoity-toity, walking around with his nose in the air like he's better than us.
    Don't sea-elves have a good war going with Kuo-toa and/or Sahaguin? (Sea-elves, I swear they seem to be one of the more ridiculous elven subraces)

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Racial Rivalries

    Sahuagin hate everybody, or at least know they're better than them, but they especially hate Kuo-toans since they kicked those guys out of the ocean for numerous party fouls. Also Sea Elves for polluting their water and causing mutations/crossbreeding.

    Kuo-toans hate everybody and themselves and their god and especially the Sahuagin for kicking them out of the ocean.

    Sea Elves hate Sahuagin because they're hated by the Sahuagin and occupy the same real estate which of course leads to conflicts.
    Last edited by Coidzor; 2010-11-01 at 10:50 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    +3 Girlfriend is totally unoptimized. You are better off with a +1 Keen Witty girlfriend and then appling Greater Magic Make-up to increase her enhancement bonus.
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  28. - Top - End - #28
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Daemon

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    Default Re: Racial Rivalries

    Quote Originally Posted by herrhauptmann View Post
    Well maybe he shouldn't be so hoity-toity, walking around with his nose in the air like he's better than us.
    Don't sea-elves have a good war going with Kuo-toa and/or Sahaguin? (Sea-elves, I swear they seem to be one of the more ridiculous elven subraces)
    Aren't elves in general ridiculous? I mean the whole, we are better than everybody except in game type of the really can get annoying. Especially when you deal with noobs, "Oh my CL, its teh Elves, mah elf is bettah tehn any dwarff/ork/hu-man ting! ROFLMAO!"
    Last edited by RanWilde; 2010-11-01 at 10:55 PM.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: Racial Rivalries

    Quote Originally Posted by Spamotron View Post
    I believe it was a shout-out to Dark Sun's cannibal Halflings who see all other races as dinner.
    I *liked* the cannibal halflings. I hate the whole racial rivalries thing. It just seems so bloody cliche. Like Star Trek monocultures. Booooooooring. I can see society or cultural; rivalries. But not on a racial level. Races that behave all alike are dull. Give me flamboyant dwarves and grim elves and pious halflings and moody gnomes and whimsical, poetry loving orcs... But don't let any race have one, monolithic culture. Variety after all is the spice of life.

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