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Thread: 3.5 Elocater
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2010-11-01, 11:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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3.5 Elocater
I just love this class, it is oozing flavor and it is in my opinion goof if not at least a solid class, plus it has a really nice picture
Spoiler
The problem is, that I don't have idea on how to make a good elocater, I might want to play one in the futre so I ask for general advice on how to make a solid Elocater.
Highlights
6+int skills
two good saves
gan get massive attack and damage bonuses (+6 basically for free is nothing to scoff at)
7/10 manifesting progresion, so you still get 9th powers (assuming a pure psionic entry)
Medium Bab, not that bad
Scorn Earth is awesome!!!
The two 5 foot steps are nice, and if you can pump your tumble checks to reliably make DC 40 ones, you can move 20 ft for free!!
Acceleated actions is GREAT!!!
The Bad:
Low hd: d6
Can't be entered by a pure psion till level 9
Dimesion Doos PLA and Dimensional spring attack are just 1/day.
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2010-11-01, 11:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Elocater
Psychic Rogue could do well (the wizards online one sombody link it)
Skulk if you play it with a hombrew fix
Sneak attackers seem like they could make really good use of the Elocator flanking abilities.
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2010-11-01, 11:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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2010-11-01, 11:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Elocater
Personally I've done it as a Rogue/PsyWar. I imagine it could be done with a Swordsage/PsyWar as well, but I personally like the Rogue/PsyWar concept better.
Originally Posted by The Doctor
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2010-11-01, 11:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Elocater
Hmmm swordsage/Psyway (or ardent) might be a good idea...... and I was planning on goind swordsage with mushu.... hmmm I might need to tweak the concept a bit, but I think it might work just great..../mad rambles.
Ok to clarify, I was woing to play a Dragonwrought Feral Kobold Swordsage (mushu), but now that Dsmiles, has put the swordsage/psywar on the table.... going psywar or ardent will make for a good lead in, into Elocater.
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2010-11-01, 11:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Elocater
The Elocator is mechanical garbage:
- 7/10 manifester progression = seriously nerfed powers.
- 3/4 BAB = nerfed Power Attack combos.
- Mobility and Spring Attack as pre-reqs are mostly useless feat taxes.
- Opportunistic Strike only applies to the first attack each round, and it has the "that has been dealt damage in melee by another character since the elocater’s last action" requirement.
- Scorn Earth is nifty, but can be duplicated by various spells, feats, powers, and magic items.
- Dimension Step and Transporter duplicate psionic powers that most psionic characters already have access to.
- Flanker is duplicated by feats and maneuvers, and is only really useful if you have a dedicated Sneak Attacker in your party.
- Capricious Step is in effect duplicated by various things, including Hustle and Psionic Lion's Charge.
- Dimension Spring Attack is garbage because Spring Attack is garbage.
- Accelerated Action, like all action economy, is very useful. But it's not worth 9 levels of suck to get to it. And it's less useful then Schism, which has a much longer duration.
Honestly, you should just play a Psion/Slayer or Psychic Warrior. With careful feat and power selection, you can duplicate all of the Elocator's abilities, but more effectively.
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2010-11-01, 11:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Elocater
I've been told that the Ardent calculates power access based on manifester level.
If this is true Ardent 10(dominant ideal)/Elocator 10 with practiced manifester would be handy.
Originally Posted by The Mind's Eye
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2010-11-01, 11:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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2010-11-01, 11:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Elocater
I love your guides, and your insight is extremely valuable; but sometimes I feel you sound a bit too harsh when talking about this kind of stuff. Please don't take it badly, it is just somethig I felt I need to say.
Having said that, I will take your advice into account; but please tell me, hwo can you duplicate scorn earth?
I'll keep that in mind, thanks I have forgotten about the Dominant Mante ACF
I am not familiar with that feat, can you please explain or link it to me?
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2010-11-01, 12:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Elocater
Originally Posted by SRD
They technically can't work togeather per the PF Spring Attack wording but the 3.5 wording appears to allow it.
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2010-11-01, 01:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Elocater
Anything that gives you the ability to fly is superior, in that it allows you to ignore difficult terrain and move vertically. You can easily attain flight with the Dragonborn or Raptorian race, the Fly spell, the Psionic Fly power, the Star Spawn feat, and a wide variety of magic items.
The Combat Acrobat feat (PHBII) allows you to ignore up to 4 squares of difficult terrain with a DC 15 Balance check, and allows you to ignore being knocked prone with a DC 20 check.
You can also Jump as part of movement (in fact it's required as part of Leap Attack), which also bypasses difficult terrain.
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2010-11-01, 01:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Elocater
Elocater is suboptimal but I wouldn't call it "garbage." It's one of few psionic PrCs that doesn't lose an ML on entry. More importantly imo, the best ability is at 7 (Capricious Step) letting you safely break at 7 and only lose 2 ML. The feat tax is indeed sucky, but Psywars and Psyrogues - the logical entry choices - have feats to spare anyway. The 6+Int skills means the latter doesn't give up much, while the former has a great deal to gain, and the skill list is great (Disable Device! UPD!).
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2010-11-01, 01:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-11-01, 01:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Elocater
You can duplicate the other abilities, sure, but 10' step is powerful and unique enough imo to make the class worth it, particularly with only 2 lost ML.
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2010-11-01, 02:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Elocater
A 10' step is also only a (if I remember correctly) DC 40 tumble check away, so I'm not sure that something that can be achieved via skill points (and a magic item to boost your check) is worth two manifester levels.
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2010-11-01, 02:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-11-01, 02:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Elocater
Elocator is most effective when approached from a class that already emphasizes skill use, flanking, and mobility. To me, that just screams rogue or scout entry (+psion to capitalize on skill point/Int synergy, or psywar for bonus feats). The class clearly wants you to use Spring Attack. True, Spring Attack isn't the most optimal attack tactic, but I'd say you're best just accepting that as an Elocator, you Spring Attack, and going ahead and being darn good at it. Bounding Assault and Rapid Blitz are there for you (and a kind DM might just roll both those feats into Spring Attack and let you get 3 for 1; it wouldn't be overpowered). So is Power Attack.
While Person_Man and I disagree about the relevancy of Power Attack for an Elocator, my position is that for a given X attack bonus, the fewer iterative attacks you're making, the more efficiently you can use Power Attack. As far as attack bonus goes Medium BAB + Opportunistic Strike + Flanking bonus >= Full BAB + Flanking bonus, while giving you fewer iteratives, so go ahead and Power Attack like there's no tomorrow.
If you're a psion/scout/elocator, consider Able Learner at 1st level and Knowledge Devotion (+Collector of Stories) at higher level to further improve your wallop (and give you a useful role as party sage and know-it-all), or Improved Skirmish. There are actually quite a few ways you could choose to go, depending on your feat and skill selections.
However, you're not a primary melee combatant in a fight, you're a striker and melee support character. Live within that role, and shine outside of combat Use your skill points from class and high Int (you have high Int, right?), combined with your psionic progression, to be versatile in a variety of roles. You can be party trapfinder, scout, transporter, handyman, and information gatherer, more or less all at once. Don't compare yourself to the psion or psychic warrior, compare yourself to the scout, rogue, and factotum.Last edited by jiriku; 2010-11-01 at 02:12 PM.
Subclasses for 5E: magus of blades, shadowcraft assassin, spellthief, void disciple
Guides for 5E: Practical fiend-binding
D&D Remix for 3.x: balanced base classes and feats, all in the authentic flavor of the originals. Most popular: monk and fighter.
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2010-11-01, 02:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-11-01, 02:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Elocater
Instead of rogue/psion, you can also consider Psychic Rogue. Int-focused and a much better skill-monkey.
Drop out of elocater at 7, the last three abilities aren't worth losing a third ML imo.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2010-11-01, 02:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Elocater
I want higher level powers so i think I'll stick to psion... what discipline would be beter? psychotransportations fits perfectly fluff-wise, but both psychometabolism and metacreativity are far more powerful.
First one has metamorphosis for multiple shape fun and the second one has psionic minor creation for poison fun and astral construct to have a reliable source for opportunistic attack.
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2010-11-01, 02:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Elocater
Pick the one that gets you the most powers you want; you can pick up odd powers like Metamorphosis via Expanded Knowledge. (Or just learning it if you go the Erudite route.)
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2010-11-01, 02:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Elocater
Well, psion 4/rogue 2 qualifies you, or psion 5/rogue 1 if you're using fractional base attack rules (which I heartily endorse). Both these approaches maximize manifester levels, although I think they miss the point of the class. I think the intended entry is probably rogue 4/psion 1, which maximizes skill points. The elocator seems to me more of a skill monkey/striker who develops some psionic powers, rather than a psion who happens to dish out a little melee.
Rogue 4/psion 1/elocator 7/illithid slayer 8 perhaps? I'm AFB and don't have a categorical knowledge of psionic prestige classes, but it would seem that you'd want to continue progressing attack bonus, hit points, skill progression, and psionic power progression in a fairly even manner.
After thinking it over, I think Staggering Strike would really be a take-away feat for you at level 9. Wallop somebody for a lot, stagger them, and walk away: you're both dealing damage and exercising action denial. Pick up the rest of the Spring Attack tree and you could wallop two or three somebodies, stagger them all, and end your turn threatened by none of them.Subclasses for 5E: magus of blades, shadowcraft assassin, spellthief, void disciple
Guides for 5E: Practical fiend-binding
D&D Remix for 3.x: balanced base classes and feats, all in the authentic flavor of the originals. Most popular: monk and fighter.
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2010-11-01, 02:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-11-01, 02:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Elocater
If you're going Ardent, you may want to go Swordsage instead of Rogue for the Wis synergy, and use maneuvers/clever positioning for damage instead of sneak attack. Ardents also have another avenue for getting cross-list powers: through mantle selection and customization.
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2010-11-01, 02:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-11-01, 03:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Elocater
Don't forget to load up your psicrystal with feats and Feat Leech them. You can borrow a number equal to your Wis bonus, which will of course be pretty high as an Ardent.
Metapsionic feats have no prerequisites and are leechable, so cram those onto your pet rock and keep the goodies like Expanded Knowledge for yourself.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2010-11-01, 03:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-11-01, 03:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Elocater
Xephs are the logical choice; speedy, dextrous and psionic. Buommans get a Wis bonus and psionics mean the no-speaking thing won't be an issue. And of course, you can't go wrong with Humans.
Since mobility is your thing I'd avoid a short race with 20' move.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2010-11-01, 03:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Elocater
As a rule I avoid small races (that aren't whisper gnomes or kobolds ) so that doesn't matter... now Xephs... arg.. I hate the artwork for them, but they get really nice options (Xeph Celerity. sign me in)... Humans as you said are never wrong... Buoman... I don't have the Planar Handbood handy at the moment, so I'll reserve my comments on them.
But realisticly speaking Mushu is still the best option, as for the low cost of 1 feat and one template I get
Str + 0
Dex + 0
Con + 2
Wis +3
Int -1
Cha +3
Which taking into acount my rolled stats (17, 16, 14, 13,13 12) give me
17 str, 16 dex, 14 con, 16 wis, int 12, cha 15 .
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2010-11-01, 04:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Elocater
Synads are aberration type and get a free swift action that could be used to manifest Hustle to turn it into a move action. They also get bonus PP. Another possibility for Ardent might be Dragonborn Water Half-Orc. Half-Orcs get penalties to all mental skills EXCEPT Wisdom, which is your manifesting stat. Then you'd get a +2 Str and +2 Con which is useful.
If your DM allows homebrew, consider Ephemeral Blade as an alternative. Eldariel made it, so you know its good. It focuses on combining Psychoportation powers and Diamond Mind maneuvers. It actually allows you to pull off the Dimension Spring Attack with a martial strike instead of just a crappy single attack. I'm playing one on an Ardent/Warblade chassis (just ignore the Warblade +int abilities, the low level ones are crappy), and Dim Hopping around the battlefield using Emerald Razor is pretty awesome. The Freedom mantle goes with the build SO awesomely amazing.