Aftermarket for Golems?

[ffone]

Can a golem be 'stolen' and 'reprogrammed' in some way that would make it viable for being 'sold' by the PCs (to get half its market value as treasure, in essence)?

Is there some mundane way to override its instructions by its creature / current t master (such as a BBEG) such as by showing the golem its dead master to 'invalidate' the last instructions, or using enchantments or mundane leverage/threats to compel a subdued BBEG (or an illusion thereof with the right illusion spell) to give it new instructors ("These adventurers are your new masters, take instructions from them" etc.)? Or is there some spell for taking (permanent) 'control' of a construct or 'wiping' its current instructions / the 'master' it's keyed to?

[JaronK]

Golems aren't really intelligent and there don't seem to be any rules for programming them at all if you're not their master. Furthermore, there are many types of golems that keep doing their same old thing after their entire civilization is destroyed (like Elder Endelons). So it seems you really can't reprogram them later, no matter what.

JaronK

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Golems are already incredibly vulnerable to illusions. Allowing Minor Image + Ventriloquism to essentially dominate them makes it pointless to build them at all.

[ffone]

Golems aren't really intelligent and there don't seem to be any rules for programming them at all if you're not their master. Furthermore, there are many types of golems that keep doing their same old thing after their entire civilization is destroyed (like Elder Endelons). So it seems you really can't reprogram them later, no matter what.

JaronK

Yeah, their entry doesn't even seem to have rules for 'voluntary/peaceful' transfer of ownership from the creator to a new master (like a gnome with Craft Construct who creates them just to sell them to BBEGs at his own Golems R Us storefront). They have a Market Price, but maybe your thinking that's just b/c everything with a crafting cost should have one to go along with it?

[Marnath]

Some golems only follow orders spoken directly after a command word. For them, all you'd need is to beat the creator with a wrench until he told you the code word.

[DementedFellow]

Sand Golems from Sandstorm can be (temprorarily) put under the control of another master, so long as A) the original master tells him to and B) the new master holds a special amulet. Once its service is done it will return to the former master.

[ffone]

Some golems only follow orders spoken directly after a command word. For them, all you'd need is to beat the creator with a wrench until he told you the code word.

Aha, that's a good idea.

I see in their SRD blurb:

"The golem’s creator can order the golem to obey the commands of another person (who might in turn place the golem under someone else’s control, and so on), but the golem’s creator can always resume control over his creation by commanding the golem to obey him alone."

So the gnome creator could presumably give his golem the meta-command command, "Obey a common spoken by anyone if it follows the following code word I say now: Abracadabra."

Then the gnome could sell the golem to a BBEG by telling him how he's instructed the golem, assuming the BBEG trusts the gnome not to have added a clause such as "....for the next 48 hours, then run off to the following rendezvous" (...where I'll reclaim you, set up shop in another city, and repeat the scam!) The BBEG might even have utility to NOT have the gnome tell the golem to follow all commands by the BBEG, anticipating adventurers who would use disguises and illusions to countermand the golem.

[Jack_Simth]

Yeah, their entry doesn't even seem to have rules for 'voluntary/peaceful' transfer of ownership from the creator to a new master

That'd be because you're looking at the individual entries, rather than the golem header, hiding in the 'combat' section, of all places:

The golem’s creator can order the golem to obey the commands of another person (who might in turn place the golem under someone else’s control, and so on), but the golem’s creator can always resume control over his creation by commanding the golem to obey him alone.

So the creator can command the golem to obey the orders of person X, no problem (so if you Dominate the creator, you can tell it to give you the golem), but be warned: Once the dominate wears off, the creator can tell it to stop obeying you... if he's still active at that point.

Now, it's not listed how 'trickable' golems are is not specified in RAW, either direction. As the range of command is only 60 feet, making it somehow mystic makes an amount of sense, and a lot of DM's will do that. Contrawise, figuring out who crafted it (or who it's currently set to obey), faking that specific person (Disguise, possibly by way of Disguise Self), and giving it orders in the language of it's creator also makes sense as a method of control... because of the limitation that the golem must be able to both see and hear it's creator - so many DM's will do that.

So that's really a long way of saying 'Unclear, ask your DM'

Looks like you found things while I was typing... no matter.

So the gnome creator could presumably give his golem the meta-command command, "Obey a common spoken by anyone if it follows the following code word I say now: Abracadabra."

Reasonably feasible... of course, then you go from 'a disguise check' to 'a listen check' for taking over the golem.

Then the gnome could sell the golem to a BBEG by telling him how he's instructed the golem, assuming the BBEG trusts the gnome not to have added a clause such as "....for the next 48 hours, then run off to the following rendezvous" (...where I'll reclaim you, set up shop in another city, and repeat the scam!) The BBEG might even have utility to NOT have the gnome tell the golem to follow all commands by the BBEG, anticipating adventurers who would use disguises and illusions to countermand the golem.

Commands must be simple. Timing, followed by navigation to a particular point? That's not exactly simple.

[Coidzor]

AKA, might as well homebrew something coherent.

[Jack_Simth]

AKA, might as well homebrew something coherent.

Pretty much, yeah.

[Fhaolan]

For some reason the thread description made me think in the other direction, getting aftermarket add-ons for your Golem.

So I had this mental image of a Clay Golem with spinning rims and racing stripes...

[Coidzor]

So I had this mental image of a Clay Golem with spinning rims and racing stripes...

The Red Clay goes fasta!

[faceroll]

The Red Clay goes fasta!

Golem has plenty o' choppa; not enuf dakka!

[Ashram]

The Red Clay goes fasta!

Red clay with flame designs on it. Just as good as any Haste spell, and twice as stylish!