A psionic class question.

[Warpwolf16]

Soon my friend is DMing his first 3.5 game and I got invited to play. The game is a Legacy Item hunting capaign, and I'll be using psionics which he is new to and a few players know well.

My character is suppose to be the archeologist of the group, and Im wondering which psionic class would handle that well? Psion? Ardent? Divine Mind?

We will be starting out at level 3 if anyone has any suggestions.

[dsmiles]

Depends. Psions get all knowledges taken individually, like wizards. I don't know about Ardents and Divine Minds.
My personal favorite is the Psion, but I don't know if they would make good archaeologists...

[Psyren]

The "brainy, scholar" type of archaeologist (think Evie from The Mummy) would be best done by a Seer or Erudite. The "rough and tumble, Indiana Jones/Lara Croft" archaeologist would fit with an Ardent or Psychic Warrior. A Psyrogue would also be a great skillmonkey for your group if you don't have one; places that require archaeology tend to have lots of traps or require a fair bit of sneaking around.

Stay far, far, FAR away from Divine Mind!

[Warpwolf16]

@Psyren: My character is suppose to be the knowledgble guy who wont die after being hit a few times. So I guess the 'Pulp Indy' archtype would be the idea. Would you suggest multiclassing a Psion and Ardent? And I'll stay away from Divine Mind....I just looked over the entry and almost fell out of my chair.

@dsmiles:The only problem going pure psion is the lack of material strength or defensive powers.

[dsmiles]

@Psyren: My character is suppose to be the knowledgble guy who wont die after being hit a few times. So I guess the 'Pulp Indy' archtype would be the idea. Would you suggest multiclassing a Psion and Ardent? And I'll stay away from Divine Mind....I just looked over the entry and almost fell out of my chair.

@dsmiles:The only problem going pure psion is the lack of material strength or defensive powers.

Pulp Indy seems more like a Psion/PsyRogue to me. Knows a lot of stuff, has a lot of skills, too.

[HunterOfJello]

Definitely Erudite.

Just look at this guy:




That's definitely the look of a badass scholar if I ever saw one.

[Psyren]

Psionics-users are tough no matter which class you play. With Vigor+Share Pain (with your psicrystal or a beefy ally) you can soak a metric ton of damage. Erudite definitely fits your concept best, but you'll have to work out with your DM how many UPD they get ahead of time.

Also, no I would not suggest multiclassing Psion and Ardent. Ardents can get all the same powers, so you'd be MAD for no reason.

[Yuki Akuma]

Ardents do get some Psychic Warrior and Lurk powers... And a couple that only they and Divine Minds can use!

So, only Ardents can use, because who the hell would play a Divine Mind?

Although I'm gonna say go with the Erudite. It has all the benefits of the Psion (absolute spontaneity) with all the benefits of the Wizard (know everything).

Just keep a bunch of power stones/a power-manifesting ally so you can use utility powers without locking yourself into them.

[FMArthur]

Erudite is the way to go, thematically. Crunch-wise it can be fairly powerful or very powerful if you use the Spell to Power variant that lets you cast arcane spells as powers (it only really gets into super powerful territory if you disregard the completely obvious RAI and go by strict RAW on Unique Powers Per Day).

Be an Elan if defense is important to you. Suddenly, it is trivial. And doesn't dip into your limited Unique Powers Per Day.

[Warpwolf16]

@Psyren: I just got off the phone with him, he said just roll him up as is with the rules in CP and we will determine the UPD's when we get to the table when we get to the game.

Are any powers suggested for my theme? Im aware I'll need some sort of offensive power.

[Kalaska'Agathas]

I'll throw in another "yea" vote for Erudite. If you combine it with a level or two (I'd recommend just one unless you're totally feat starved) of monk, and the feats Tashalatora (Secrets of Sarlona, pg. 119) and Carmendine Monk (Champions of Valor, pg. 28) and you've got a pretty wicked AC and are quite capable in combat. Flavor with the Slayer to taste, and make sure you pick up Practiced Manifester (Complete Psionic, pg. 57) to make up for lost manifester levels (so you can augment your powers).

Note: Only use Slayer if it doesn't eliminate your ability to learn new powers. And remember that by RAW it is Unique Powers Per Level Per Day, which can get really stupid really fast. And if you're looking for a little cheese, Magic of Incarnum has a couple of tricks that will let you set yourself up to recharge power points, giving you the ability to go all day long.

[Psyren]

@Psyren: I just got off the phone with him, he said just roll him up as is with the rules in CP and we will determine the UPD's when we get to the table when we get to the game.

Are any powers suggested for my theme? Im aware I'll need some sort of offensive power.

Well, CPsi is the problem - the multiple possible interpretations for Erudite are all in the book, and the online version omits the table, increasing confusion.

For powers, here is one of my go-to resources.

[Warpwolf16]

Well, CPsi is the problem - the multiple possible interpretations for Erudite are all in the book, and the online version omits the table, increasing confusion.

For powers, here is one of my go-to resources.

I see, well I guess I can bring that up to him when he gets off work. But another question I must ask, what about ACF's? Any suggestions if I should take one or not? And what about the race, Im tied between Synad or Human do you guys have any ideas?

and thanks for the link for the powers that really helps.

[Kalaska'Agathas]

If you're using LA buy off, I prefer the Empty Vessel from the Eberron Campaign Setting. It gets the Human bonus feat and skills, which are nice, and it gets a bonus power point per level. Also, it comes with some stat boosts, so you can get away with a lower point buy.

As far as ACFs go, if you think you'll be using Expanded Knowledge to get a lot of discipline powers from the same discipline, then it's better to trade your first level feat for the discipline in question. Saves you a bunch of feats. Or, if there's a mantle you particularly want (and you think is worth a feat) then Mantled Erudite could be a good choice. I shy away from Convert-Spell-to-Power as a rule, as I don't think I'd like my DM throwing one of those against me.

[Keld Denar]

There are only a couple of ACFs for Psions, and even less for the other classes. Mantle'd PsyWar and Weapon Bond are the only ones I can think of for PsyWars and Dominant Ideal is the only one I know for Ardents, all of which are only available from online web enhancements.

Synads are a pretty good race, especially if you go for the Claws of the Beast route. Being that snyads are Aberrations, they are one of the few PC races that qualify for the Rapid Strike feat in the Draconomnomnomnomnomicon, which gives you a 2nd pair of attacks with your claws. Their extra swift action can also be used to manifest Hustle and get an extra move action, if that is desired.

[Psyren]

I would go Synad or Elan over Human; Aberration type is VERY useful and definitely worth giving up the extra feat for. The bonus PP and abilities are worth the skill points as well. Best of all, you look human (so long as you don't run out of PP anyway) so you can easily blend in and fool enemies.

Synad is definitely the way to go if you're the party loremonkey. Their Collective ability lets you convert 1PP = +2 untyped to Knowledge or Psicraft; there is no limit on this ability either and the bonus is untyped, so you can pump a lot of PP into figuring something out when your party needs to.

In combat, the Synad has some potent tricks. Oracle lets you spend a PP to get +2 to an initiative check, attack roll or save - either before or after you know it fails. Even as 1/day, it can save your character's life. Threefold Mind gives you a limited, though still powerful, mini-schism, which you can improve with a feat.

Note: Favored Discipline Erudite is probably your best bet ACF-wise. It is much more powerful than the Mantled Erudite but not nearly as Tier-0 broken as StP.

[dsmiles]

Elan over Human;

'Nuff said.

EDIT:

[Dusk Eclipse]

There are only a couple of ACFs for Psions, and even less for the other classes. Mantle'd PsyWar and Weapon Bond are the only ones I can think of for PsyWars and Dominant Ideal is the only one I know for Ardents, all of which are only available from online web enhancements.

Synads are a pretty good race, especially if you go for the Claws of the Beast route. Being that snyads are Aberrations, they are one of the few PC races that qualify for the Rapid Strike feat in the Draconomnomnomnomnomicon, which gives you a 2nd pair of attacks with your claws. Their extra swift action can also be used to manifest Hustle and get an extra move action, if that is desired.

Matle substitution is a grear ACF for Ardents.. just point out that custimizing your mantles is AWESOME

[Warpwolf16]

I would go Synad or Elan over Human; Aberration type is VERY useful and definitely worth giving up the extra feat for. The bonus PP and abilities are worth the skill points as well. Best of all, you look human (so long as you don't run out of PP anyway) so you can easily blend in and fool enemies.

Synad is definitely the way to go if you're the party loremonkey. Their Collective ability lets you convert 1PP = +2 untyped to Knowledge or Psicraft; there is no limit on this ability either and the bonus is untyped, so you can pump a lot of PP into figuring something out when your party needs to.

In combat, the Synad has some potent tricks. Oracle lets you spend a PP to get +2 to an initiative check, attack roll or save - either before or after you know it fails. Even as 1/day, it can save your character's life. Threefold Mind gives you a limited, though still powerful, mini-schism, which you can improve with a feat.

Note: Favored Discipline Erudite is probably your best bet ACF-wise. It is much more powerful than the Mantled Erudite but not nearly as Tier-0 broken as StP.

Okay this is my idea so far. I will play a Synad(DM said to free +1LA) Erudite. Im not going to go with the ACF since I'll be missing a feat I might need. As for the ability of leeching off other psionic characters, my friend will be a gnoll wilder. What are some suggested feats?Skill focus?

[Yuki Akuma]

If your ally is a Wilder, never use utility powers. Learn them, by all means, but get them to take them out of your head and use them instead.

[grarrrg]

My character is suppose to be the archeologist of the group, and Im wondering which psionic class would handle that well?

Archeologist huh? Indiana Jones comes to mind.
Reflavor the weapon as a Whip and Soulknife Pyrokineticist is PERFECT-AWESOME for the job. It even gets a WHIP!
*ducks thrown Psionics handbook*

[Psyren]

Synads are 0 LA; any chance you can get a template with that free +1?

I would rethink foregoing the Favored Discipline ACF; though you give up one feat, it will save you more feats down the road. With FD, you can be a psychometabolic Erudite and learn Metamorphosis (both of them) without needing to spend Expanded Knowledge on it. In fact, it is the only way for an Erudite to learn Greater Metamorphosis pre-epic. You can also pick up nifty powers like the Psywar's Form of Doom. And to top it off, you don't have to wait two levels like you would if you were learning them via EK.

For feats, you'll want the standards for a primary manifester - Psionic Meditation as soon as possible, some Metapsionics (especially Metapower and Linked Power), and Overchannel/Talented. You won't need EK as much as other psionic builds, so feel free to squeeze in Synad Multitask at some point. If your DM allows metamorphosis, Assume Supernatural Ability is another must-have. Earth Power is nice if you put some dirt in your shoes, though the prereqs stink a bit.

Archeologist huh? Indiana Jones comes to mind.
Reflavor the weapon as a Whip and Soulknife is PERFECT-AWESOME for the job.
*ducks thrown Psionics handbook*

*Retracts arm from having thrown Psionics book*
He said psionic class.

[Urpriest]

Archeologist huh? Indiana Jones comes to mind.
Reflavor the weapon as a Whip and Soulknife is PERFECT-AWESOME for the job.
*ducks thrown Psionics handbook*

If you're going to risk having a book thrown at you, at least suggest a sub-par class that actually gets a whip, like Pyrokineticist.

[dsmiles]

Aww...no bites on the Elan comment? You guys are no fun...

[Cog]

I know you already decided against the one ACF, but I don't recall seeing another mentioned: Favored Discipline. If you want a combat-useful Erudite, take Psychometabolism, and you can learn those powers off any class's list, at their first available level - so you can get PsyWar and Ardent ones, and you can get the Egoist powers a couple levels earlier than you would have. It's less cheesy than Spell-to-Power, too.

[grarrrg]

Aww...no bites on the Elan comment? You guys are no fun...

Sorry, but my stupidity trumps yours apparently.

[Yuki Akuma]

I know you already decided against the one ACF, but I don't recall seeing another mentioned: Favored Discipline. If you want a combat-useful Erudite, take Psychometabolism, and you can learn those powers off any class's list, at their first available level - so you can get PsyWar and Ardent ones, and you can get the Egoist powers a couple levels earlier than you would have. It's less cheesy than Spell-to-Power, too.

Hmm...

Note: Favored Discipline Erudite is probably your best bet ACF-wise. It is much more powerful than the Mantled Erudite but not nearly as Tier-0 broken as StP.

You don't say...

[Cog]

Hmm... You don't say...

Well, I did say I 'don't recall' seeing it. That's perfectly true!

[Blackfang108]

Well, I did say I 'don't recall' seeing it. That's perfectly true!

Failed your Autohypnosis recall roll, did we?

[Psyren]

Just to clarify, I'm not saying Mantled Erudite is bad. All three ACFs are in fact better than the base Erudite, which is itself already pretty good even with only 11 UPD.

Mantled Erudite has the advantage of gaining one mantle for free and access to more; and the Mantle abilities and powers can be quite useful, particularly to gishes. Mantles are like domains, in that the good ones are roughly equivalent to a feat.

As an example, Conflict gives you free Weapon Focus; if you were gishing your Erudite (or specializing in rays) you'd probably want to pick that one up anyway, so losing a bonus feat to it is a wash. Even better, you get it without even needing the BAB prereq, and for the weapon of your choice to boot (read: regardless of proficiency.) And then on top of that, you get access to some nice Psywar only powers like Dimension Slide and Psionic Lion's Charge without having to blow XP on them. The mantle capstone, Spirit of War, is pretty badass too; psionics doesn't get many group buffs.

(Spirit of War is an Ardent-only power, and it seems like a precursor to the 4e Ardent's role as a leader.)