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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Zombie

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    Default [3.5 Spell] Hector's Soulspark Shell

    Hector's Soulspark Shell
    Necromancy [General]
    Level: Sorcerer / Wizard 6
    Components: V, S, M
    Casting Time: 1 hour
    Target: 1 subject
    Duration: number of days equal to caster level

    This ritual purges and shields a target's spirit and soul from the corrupting influences of negative energy. When cast on a living creature, it gains immunity to level drain and ability damage caused by negative energy for the spell's duration. When cast on an intelligent undead creature, its former personality and memories are restored. It's Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma scores are restored to their former value when they were still alive, as well as its alignment. If the target had class levels before being turned, it regains 1d6 levels. If the target undead is a random encounter, increase Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma by 1d6. It's alignment is chosen randomly and it gains 1d6 levels in a class which is either randomly determined or influenced by several factors such as equipment, existing class levels, type of undead, etc. A Wight wearing armor might have been a fighter in life while a mummy will most likely have been a cleric. If the undead creature is a random, or insignificant encounter with no equipment e.g. a ghoul, it's class is randomly chosen from one of the NPC classes: Adept, Aristocrat, Commoner, Expert or Warrior.

    Unwilling undead are allowed a will save. When the spell ends, the undead will gradually revert back too it's corrupted self. It will lose one class level and one point of intelligence, wisdom and charisma every day until it's level and ability scores are returned too their original values before this spell was cast, after which their alignment reverts back too it's original as well.

    Material Component: Egg shell and Diamond dust worth at least 500 gp.


    Lore:
    Created by a necromancer who initially had good intentions in mind, this spell was not as well received as he had first thought. Because of it's difficulty factor and only temporary effects, the spell is largely ignored by good and neutral wizards as a 'solution' and most will point to divine magic instead.

    Evil wizards on the other hand have found a far more sinister use for this spell, as it can turn a weaker undead creature in to a competent minion and since minions created this way rarely wish to lose themselves again, it makes them loyal to boot.


    C+C ?

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: [3.5 Spell] Hector's Soulspark Shell

    I'm not good with balance at all but the idea is cool. I can see this being viewed as an infringement on Undead Rights in campaigns that have a heavy Undead presence such as Ishka
    Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons, unless you brought someone bigger and tastier along with you.


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  3. - Top - End - #3
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5 Spell] Hector's Soulspark Shell

    Quote Originally Posted by Zedicius View Post
    Hector's Soulspark Shell
    Necromancy [General]
    General? Is this a homebrew sub school? And Necromancy is a bit strange for a protection and healing spell. If the spell shields you from negative energy, that is abjuration(But then, eh, Death Ward is necromancy too). But 'bringing a person back to life', that is sure not necromancy. It's not like if you remove the negative energy that 'life' just pours in.





    Quote Originally Posted by Zedicius View Post
    When cast on an intelligent undead creature, its former personality and memories are restored. It's Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma scores are restored to their former value when they were still alive, as well as its alignment.
    This is a bit odd. The average intelligent undead creature has a Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma already, so you don't restore much..in fact you may take away points. And intelligent undead have their personality and memories.

    And did you want this to work on incorporeal undead, like ghosts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zedicius View Post
    If the target had class levels before being turned, it regains 1d6 levels. If the target undead is a random encounter, increase Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma by 1d6. It's alignment is chosen randomly and it gains 1d6 levels in a class which is either randomly determined or influenced by several factors such as equipment, existing class levels, type of undead, etc.
    A wight in the MM has Int 11, Wis 13 and Chr 15. So what would it loose? If the wight was a dwarf from the MM it's Int, Wis and Chr would be 10, 9 and 6! So how would that work? Would a wight that was effected by this spell loose the ability points to make him a 'normal dwarf' again?

    Undead don't loose class levels. A 5th level human fighter, that gets bitten by a vampire, becomes a 5th level Vampire Spawn(human) fighter. The same is true for a Lich. Most undead in the MM are just 'normal commoner' stock, that is why they are so plain.

    And how do you handle class abilities? And what about spells? And if the undead was a cleric, can they cast spells as an undead?



    Quote Originally Posted by Zedicius View Post
    When the spell ends, the undead will gradually revert back too it's corrupted self. It will lose one class level and one point of intelligence, wisdom and charisma every day until it's level and ability scores are returned too their original values before this spell was cast, after which their alignment reverts back too it's original as well.
    First the spell lasts a day per level, so 11 day minimum, plus the undead gets at least 5 more days of being semi normal, before it's a monster again. That is a lot of days.

    And again the ability's change does not work. The dwarf wight would gain Charisma each day until he was undead again?



    Quote Originally Posted by Zedicius View Post
    Evil wizards on the other hand have found a far more sinister use for this spell, as it can turn a weaker undead creature in to a competent minion and since minions created this way rarely wish to lose themselves again, it makes them loyal to boot.
    This does not sound right. If you had a lawful good priest wight with all his memories would he serve an evil necromancy? Or how about even just a commoner farmer?

    If the intent of this spell was to make super powerful undead minions, then it is very, very, broken.

  4. - Top - End - #4
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    BlueWizardGirl

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    Default Re: [3.5 Spell] Hector's Soulspark Shell

    Just wondering....

    But would not a restored undead person go insane?


    If I'm a typical farm homemaker woman, who gets killed and turned into a undead, and then someone zaps me with a spell so I get my mind back....I would not be the happiest person in the world.

    If you were to suddenly wake up and discover that not only are you dead, but that your undead, how would you react? How would you accept the loss of all your loved ones?

    Sure if you were a vampire it might be kinda cool...but what if your a wight or a mummy?

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Pixie in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: [3.5 Spell] Hector's Soulspark Shell

    Quote Originally Posted by bloodtide View Post
    General? Is this a homebrew sub school? And Necromancy is a bit strange for a protection and healing spell. If the spell shields you from negative energy, that is abjuration(But then, eh, Death Ward is necromancy too). But 'bringing a person back to life', that is sure not necromancy. It's not like if you remove the negative energy that 'life' just pours in.
    This is not bringing someone back too life. They stay undead, they simply regain their former personalities, so indeed, I took the same principle as death ward. Since it deals with negative energy, it is classified as necromancy. Though this assumes an intelligent undead is in possession of it's actual soul. I have seen some DMs who consider the soul and the spirit as two different things. Depends on your own interpretation.

    Quote Originally Posted by bloodtide View Post
    This is a bit odd. The average intelligent undead creature has a Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma already, so you don't restore much..in fact you may take away points. And intelligent undead have their personality and memories.
    That entirely depends on the undead. Take shadows for example. They have a very low intelligence score, but are not mindless. They might have flashes of memories of their former life but they certainly aren't their former selves anymore. If intelligent undead keep their personalities, why do they almost always turn evil? This isn't explicitly explained by core RAW, though negative energy corruption, the need to destroy all things living is assumed to be the cause of this. The purpose of the spell is to cleanse this corruption, at least temporarily. Hmm, now that I think about it, clerics should probably be able to cast it as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by bloodtide View Post
    And did you want this to work on incorporeal undead, like ghosts?
    Yes. Although it would probably be tricky to cast the spell on them, I don't see why it shouldn't work.

    Quote Originally Posted by bloodtide View Post
    A wight in the MM has Int 11, Wis 13 and Chr 15. So what would it loose? If the wight was a dwarf from the MM it's Int, Wis and Chr would be 10, 9 and 6! So how would that work? Would a wight that was effected by this spell loose the ability points to make him a 'normal dwarf' again?
    Please read properly. This is where the difference between known and random encounter comes in. It is not so much about the stats, but about determining what the creature was in life. Firstly, let's look at most of the shape change spells and abilities. They generally adjust physical stats (STR, DEX, CON) and leave the mental stats (INT, WIS, CHA) alone. When someone's original personality is restored from a corrupted one we can assume their mental stats are restored. Whether they go up or down doesn't matter. Just because a Wight is a cunning combatant in death, doesn't mean he wasn't a complete fool in life.

    I treated a random encounter differently to make it easier for the DM. Turning in to an undead creature is generally seen as a bad and degenerate thing. A wise and influential king who was turned in to a corpse devouring ghoul certainly wouldn't be as wise and as influential anymore. Restoring his personality would bring those elements back, at least partially. I suppose the 1d6 rolls are a bit steep. You could change them to 1d4 and add a 50% chance that they are subtracted from the ability scores instead of added. That would probably balance things out more. Balance is primarily the reason why I posted this here.

    Quote Originally Posted by bloodtide View Post
    Undead don't loose class levels. A 5th level human fighter, that gets bitten by a vampire, becomes a 5th level Vampire Spawn(human) fighter. The same is true for a Lich. Most undead in the MM are just 'normal commoner' stock, that is why they are so plain.
    Vampire and Lich are templates, so yes they do retain their class levels and most likely their memories as well. The spell could probably use some more fleshing out when templates are involved. Wights, ghouls, etc. however are listed as separate creatures (human dies, ghoul appears). Thus I assumed that they do not keep their class levels. If this assumption is wrong, then it would actually simplify things a bit. I suppose it would make sense if they kept their HDs though.

    Quote Originally Posted by bloodtide View Post
    And how do you handle class abilities? And what about spells? And if the undead was a cleric, can they cast spells as an undead?
    For the sake of clarity, the spell description says the undead regains 1d6 (or 1d4) class levels it might have logically had in life. This comes with all class features and abilities. If a cleric's personality and thereby his faith is restored, I don't see why he shouldn't be able to cast spells. Perhaps an atonement is in order and deities like Kelemvor might have some issues with an undead worshipper, though I'll leave that up too the DM to decide.

    Quote Originally Posted by bloodtide View Post
    First the spell lasts a day per level, so 11 day minimum, plus the undead gets at least 5 more days of being semi normal, before it's a monster again. That is a lot of days.
    Duration of the spell is the one thing I had doubts about myself. The problem is that this spell is highly situational. It could have many uses in one particular situation, or none at all. It might be a better idea to change the duration to hours instead and then have the spell work with permanency. If the spell is more of an information gathering tool, hours or even minutes will do. If the spell is used to recruit minions, it might be better that it lasted longer.

    Quote Originally Posted by bloodtide View Post
    And again the ability's change does not work. The dwarf wight would gain Charisma each day until he was undead again?
    Why not? A dwarf with low charisma can easily be portrayed as a rude, bigoted drunk. That doesn't make him evil. A Wight is usually seen as a cunning, violent warrior, so he would gradually become more and more intimidating. A large part of charisma is force of personality, after all and as mentioned before, it's the personality that changes.

    Quote Originally Posted by bloodtide View Post
    This does not sound right. If you had a lawful good priest wight with all his memories would he serve an evil necromancy? Or how about even just a commoner farmer?

    If the intent of this spell was to make super powerful undead minions, then it is very, very, broken.
    The lore is largely flavor text. It was meant as a simplified suggestion on how the spell could be used. Obviously, if a necromancer restores a Wight who used to be a paladin this way, the Wight would do anything it could to oppose the necromancer for as long as possible. Then again, you never know... Whatever makes for a good story works.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamer Girl
    If I'm a typical farm homemaker woman, who gets killed and turned into a undead, and then someone zaps me with a spell so I get my mind back....I would not be the happiest person in the world.

    If you were to suddenly wake up and discover that not only are you dead, but that your undead, how would you react? How would you accept the loss of all your loved ones?
    They very well might go insane, but this is more flavor. I see this more as a situational thing, to be determined by the DM or an effect best left too the imagination. I didn't post this to discuss morality issues, I posted this to see what people thought about the concept of the spell.

    Personally, I think mummies are far more awesome then vampires.
    Last edited by Zedicius; 2010-11-05 at 03:28 AM.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    J.Gellert's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5 Spell] Hector's Soulspark Shell

    I'd say it's level is too high for what it does. I'd clean up the text a bit (it's 90% fluff, right? Doesn't need such a big explanation. Just say it restores a former personality) and make it a level 3 or, at worse, 4 spell.

    That way you can use it in the sweet spot after you have Animate Dead, but before you have Raise Dead from your party cleric.

    The casting time of 1 hour probably means you don't have to worry about castings on random encounters. Think of it this way: 90% of created undead were peasants or generally insignificant people. And this is a [PLOT] spell.

  7. - Top - End - #7
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5 Spell] Hector's Soulspark Shell

    I would think the arcane version of Death Ward and Restore Class would be separate spells. Making you immune to negative energy AND 'sort of' bringing undead back to life are different effects.

    I don't get how a necromancy spell grants class abilities? That does not sound like necromancy effects.

    And adding class levels, plus all their abilities and hp and all just feels too powerful.

    And I'd think most good and even neural gods would not like to have an undead cleric, but guess that is just flavor. And some people will like having a vampire paladin...

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