Evaluate my Cleric (DnD 4e)

[theonesin]

Here is my summary from the Character Builder:

Level 2
Dragonborn, Cleric
Dragonborn: Dragon Breath
Dragon Breath Key Ability: Dragon Breath Strength
Dragon Breath Damage Type: Dragon Breath Cold

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 18, Con 14, Dex 13, Int 9, Wis 16, Cha 16.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 14, Dex 13, Int 9, Wis 16, Cha 14.


AC: 17 Fort: 15 Reflex: 12 Will: 16
HP: 31 Surges: 9 Surge Value: 9

TRAINED SKILLS
Religion +5, Diplomacy +9, Heal +9, Arcana +5

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +1, Bluff +4, Dungeoneering +4, Endurance +2, History +2, Insight +4, Intimidate +6, Nature +4, Perception +4, Stealth +1, Streetwise +4, Thievery +1, Athletics +4

FEATS
Cleric: Ritual Caster
Level 1: Breath of Life
Level 2: Battle Healer

POWERS
Channel Divinity: Healer's Mercy
Cleric at-will 1: Sacred Flame
Cleric at-will 1: Righteous Brand
Cleric encounter 1: Healing Strike
Cleric daily 1: Moment of Glory
Cleric utility 2: Return from Death's Door

ITEMS
Ritual Book, Scythe, Chainmail, Magic Holy Symbol +1
RITUALS
Gentle Repose, Comprehend Language

First off, yes the stats are probably higher than normal. For some reason, we're doing 32-point buy instead of the CB's standard 22-points.

Anyway, this is my first time playing a Cleric (which I took partly because the party really needed a healer of some sort), but as someone who's used to playing classes that deal a lot of damage, I didn't want to go a pure healer route, and instead am going with a battle cleric. I'm just wondering if anyone has any last recommendations, or if my build looks solid.

Thanks.

[Meta]

Here is my summary from the Character Builder:

Level 2
Dragonborn, Cleric
Dragonborn: Dragon Breath
Dragon Breath Key Ability: Dragon Breath Strength
Dragon Breath Damage Type: Dragon Breath Cold

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 18, Con 14, Dex 13, Int 9, Wis 16, Cha 16.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 14, Dex 13, Int 9, Wis 16, Cha 14.

Plus it's just more effective.
AC: 17 Fort: 15 Reflex: 12 Will: 16
HP: 31 Surges: 9 Surge Value: 9

TRAINED SKILLS
Religion +5, Diplomacy +9, Heal +9, Arcana +5

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +1, Bluff +4, Dungeoneering +4, Endurance +2, History +2, Insight +4, Intimidate +6, Nature +4, Perception +4, Stealth +1, Streetwise +4, Thievery +1, Athletics +4

FEATS
Cleric: Ritual Caster
Level 1: Breath of Life
Level 2: Battle Healer

POWERS
Channel Divinity: Healer's Mercy
Cleric at-will 1: Sacred Flame
Cleric at-will 1: Righteous Brand
Cleric encounter 1: Healing Strike
Cleric daily 1: Moment of Glory
Cleric utility 2: Return from Death's Door

ITEMS
Ritual Book, Scythe, Chainmail, Magic Holy Symbol +1
RITUALS
Gentle Repose, Comprehend Language

First off, yes the stats are probably higher than normal. For some reason, we're doing 32-point buy instead of the CB's standard 22-points.

Anyway, this is my first time playing a Cleric (which I took partly because the party really needed a healer of some sort), but as someone who's used to playing classes that deal a lot of damage, I didn't want to go a pure healer route, and instead am going with a battle cleric. I'm just wondering if anyone has any last recommendations, or if my build looks solid.

Thanks.

I would recommend either taking exclusive melee powers or ranged ones and not splitting your focus. You'll probably have more fun having a smaller niche you can feel awesomely rather than being par all the time.

A runepriest might be what you're looking for if you like a good damage and leader-y class.

If you're sticking with cleric then with that amazing point buy you have, I'd heartily recommend picking up two 20's to start. Strength and Cha if you. Although 20, 18, 14, 12 would be pretty sweet too.

Post some more details about what aspects of the character your set on and we can flesh that idea out

[theonesin]

Well I'm definitely set on being a Dragonborn Cleric wielding a scythe (I might upgrade to an Execution Axe later. My character follows the Raven Queen, hence the death and cold-based themes).

I think Sacred Flame is the only ranged attack I have, which I took mainly for the ability to grant saving throws. But I'm not opposed to switching it for something else (maybe Recovery Strike?).

I'm also a little iffy on Moment of Glory, as I was choosing between it and Beacon of Hope. I figured the former would be easier to use, as you could pop it up at the beginning of combat, instead of the latter where you should wait a little later after people have taken some damage.

[DragonBaneDM]

Yeah, ditch Flame. It's a great power, but not for you. You hit things, and you hit them well. Go Recovery Strike and Righteous Brand for sure.

Keeping that in mind, you may wanna go with something with a +3 Proficiency Bonus. Hitting for you is more important than damage.

Beacon of Hope is my favorite cleric power at Level 1, But I'd suggest Shield of the Gods. I've appreciated that +3 bonus before.

[Meta]

Brand and Recovery are your best bets if you're thinking about 20 str 18 cha 14 wis 12 con or 20/20 str cha. I would look hard at 18 str 18 wis 16 cha and 12 con though. It's going to give you a lot of versatility and still have that battle cleric feel.

So mass str/cha build:
Righteous Brand
Recovery Strike
Healing Strike
Strength of the Gods

Split Str/Wis build:
Righteous Brand
Sacred Flame
Healing Strike/Bane
Moment of Glory

I'd look at skill powers for your u2 personally. Pretty good feat choices IMO

[theonesin]

I'd like to keep the scythe for thematic reasons, but if you can think of a +3 prof weapon that would fit the theme, go ahead and mention it.

[tcrudisi]

I'd like to keep the scythe for thematic reasons, but if you can think of a +3 prof weapon that would fit the theme, go ahead and mention it.

First of all, as a Leader: hitting is more important than anything else. A starting 20 Str will add a +1 to that and your damage. I strongly recommend this.

Likewise, I recommend picking up a +3 prof weapon as well. It doesn't fit the theme? Well, 4e is all about re-flavoring to fit your needs anyway. Just ask the DM if you can use that +3 prof. weapon and just say it's a scythe. That way you can describe everything you are doing as though you are using a scythe but get the mechanical benefits of a different weapon. Although since currently the only +3 weapon you are trained in is the Dagger, I would recommend spending a feat to get something else: either a big 2-hander (fullblade) or a good 1-hander (bastard sword).

Your feat selections are solid, your powers solid except Sacred Flame (as others have said). Overall, I think it's a good build.

[theonesin]

So right now, I have my ability scores as: 20 Str, 12 Con, 10 Dex, 8 Int, 14 Wis, 18 Cha. Does that sound about right?

I'm still not sure what to take for my Level 2 Utility. I'm thinking of switching Return from Death's Door for the Skill Utility Power, Healer's Gift (encounter power to allow a dying creature you touch to spend a healing surge). Or maybe Divine Aid to make up for not having Sacred Flame to give saving throws (on a plus side, it can be used on myself as well).

As for weapons, I think I found a scythe-like weapon in the Talenta Sharrash. It has +3 prof, but only 1d8 (same as the scythe). Seems a waste to spend a feat on that. I'm trying to think how I could re-flavor something like a fullblade to be more thematic.

[Kurald Galain]

So right now, I have my ability scores as: 20 Str, 12 Con, 10 Dex, 8 Int, 14 Wis, 18 Cha. Does that sound about right?

Yes. Having a 20 primary is a good idea for many classes, including clerics.

I'm still not sure what to take for my Level 2 Utility.

I'd go for Divine Aid. If you want to have dying creatures spend a healing surge, use Healing Word with its greater range.

As for weapons, I think I found a scythe-like weapon in the Talenta Sharrash. It has +3 prof, but only 1d8 (same as the scythe). Seems a waste to spend a feat on that.

Well, yes. If you want to spend a feat on boosting your to-hit, take Weapon Expertise. If I were you I would just pick a dagger or sword from the PHB and say that it's actually a scythe. It's okay if it doesn't deal 1d8 or 1d12, that's what strikers are for.

[theonesin]

For now, I guess I'll stick to my scythe until I get a new feat to select anyway. I'll talk to my DM and see if he has any idea for reflavoring a fullblade to fit my theme.

Anyway, thanks guys.

[Reverent-One]

You know, a scythe isn't a bad weapon, it's not +3 prof, but using one isn't going to result in a major (or even noticable, I'd bet) drop in your combat efficiency. That said, if the DM is willing to let you refluff whatever weapon you want as a scythe, you might as well I guess. If he doesn't allow it though, don't worry about it, with a 20 in your prime stat, you'll do fine. Other than that the above advice is fine.

[Meta]

You know, a scythe isn't a bad weapon, it's not +3 prof, but using one isn't going to result in a major (or even noticable, I'd bet) drop in your combat efficiency. That said, if the DM is willing to let you refluff whatever weapon you want as a scythe, you might as well I guess. If he doesn't allow it though, don't worry about it, with a 20 in your prime stat, you'll do fine. Other than that the above advice is fine.

Above advice is good*

I would stick with the scythe. The +1 to hit is a worthy sacrifice for the playful bragging rights of "yea I saw you kill that monster, party ranger, now watch me do it with a bad*** farming implement"

[tcrudisi]

Above advice is good*

I would stick with the scythe. The +1 to hit is a worthy sacrifice for the playful bragging rights of "yea I saw you kill that monster, party ranger, now watch me do it with a bad*** farming implement"

And re-flavoring another weapon and calling that other weapon a scythe reduces this how? If he's using a Fullblade but calling it a Scythe, he still has bragging rights. He's just much better at using it (due to his training... ie - Weapon Proficiency) than a farmer would be.

And yeah, that +1 isn't going to make but a 5% difference, but as a Leader, hitting is extremely important since a lot of the buffs he hands out are conditional to him hitting.

[Kurald Galain]

I would stick with the scythe. The +1 to hit is a worthy sacrifice for the playful bragging rights of "yea I saw you kill that monster, party ranger, now watch me do it with a bad*** farming implement"

That's actually a good point. I was AFB and thought that clerics weren't actually proficient with scythes; turns out that yes, they are. So never mind about that.

I can imagine that the DM would not allow you to refluff a sword into a scythe if you have access to an actual item named "scythe"; I know I wouldn't.

[Gralamin]

That's actually a good point. I was AFB and thought that clerics weren't actually proficient with scythes; turns out that yes, they are. So never mind about that.

I can imagine that the DM would not allow you to refluff a sword into a scythe if you have access to an actual item named "scythe"; I know I wouldn't.

Call it a War Scythe instead - It's a scythe produced to be used as a weapon, instead of as a farming implement.

[Hal]

Fine advice from the above, but let me be frank: The build you originally posted was just fine.

-You can safely start with a minimum of 16 in an attack stat; most people will tell you to go higher if possible, but it's certainly doable.

-Despite the fact that it uses an attack stat that isn't your main, I'd recommend keeping Sacred Flame. It's an At-Will that grants saving throws or temporary HP; you can get a lot of mileage out of that one. I frequently wish my Warlord had such options.

-It's kind of a shame you're going Raven Queen, because Armor of Bahamut is awesome ten ways to Sunday. Still, as far as Channel Divinity powers go, you can still be functional if you swap out Healers Mercy for one of the Undead-smiting powers (unless that was your goal, in which case go for it).

[Meta]

Fine advice from the above, but let me be frank: The build you originally posted was just fine.

-You can safely start with a minimum of 16 in an attack stat; most people will tell you to go higher if possible, but it's certainly doable.

-Despite the fact that it uses an attack stat that isn't your main, I'd recommend keeping Sacred Flame. It's an At-Will that grants saving throws or temporary HP; you can get a lot of mileage out of that one. I frequently wish my Warlord had such options.

-It's kind of a shame you're going Raven Queen, because Armor of Bahamut is awesome ten ways to Sunday. Still, as far as Channel Divinity powers go, you can still be functional if you swap out Healers Mercy for one of the Undead-smiting powers (unless that was your goal, in which case go for it).

The problem with a low attack stat in a higher than normal point buy is that he may very well find himself seated next to players with a pairs of 20's and wildly varying degrees of optimization within a party isn't a good dynamic.

Also, re-fluff isn't a bad option but I would personally think it's more fun to actually just use the scythe and its imperfections.

[Hal]

The problem with a low attack stat in a higher than normal point buy is that he may very well find himself seated next to players with a pairs of 20's and wildly varying degrees of optimization within a party isn't a good dynamic.

He still had an 18 in his primary stat originally, which is nothing to shake a stick at. Unless the strength of the monsters is changing congruent to the higher point buy, he should still be able to get by with a minimum of 16 in an attack stat.

Unless you've severely gimped your primary stats, the difference between an optimized and an unoptimized character in 4e is not as big as you might think (and as I said before, I think the build he posted originally was pretty good).

[Kurald Galain]

While it's certainly true that you can get by with an 18, I find that usually you don't have anything better to do with your point buy anyway. Unless there's a feat you really really want and need a prerequisite for, I almost always recommend to put 18+2 in your primary, distribute the rest between your secondary stat and constitution, and dump the other three stats.

And if you're doing a 32-point buy, as the OP is suggesting, there's really no reason not to start with 18+2 primary.

[Meta]

He still had an 18 in his primary stat originally, which is nothing to shake a stick at. Unless the strength of the monsters is changing congruent to the higher point buy, he should still be able to get by with a minimum of 16 in an attack stat.

Unless you've severely gimped your primary stats, the difference between an optimized and an unoptimized character in 4e is not as big as you might think (and as I said before, I think the build he posted originally was pretty good).

That's true but I posted a point buy that was 18/18/16 STR/WIS/CHA so there's no reason he would need a 16 in an attack stat with so many points to play around with.

And I'm surprised you say that Kurald how are your wizards going to get spell focus!?

Even feat selection aside as you mentioned I 'usually' only recommend a 20 in normal point buy if your primary stat is also your AC stat. A wis based class planning on taking zuoken's centering also jumps to mind, but I usually prefer a little more balance.

[Kurald Galain]

And I'm surprised you say that Kurald how are your wizards going to get spell focus!?

As I wrote, "unless there's a feat you really really want and need a prerequisite for".

[Meta]

As I wrote, "unless there's a feat you really really want and need a prerequisite for".

I mentioned you saying that silly, no need to get defensive.

A bit off-topic but I would recommend less than a starting 20 for avengers, druids, warlords, Some fighter's and slayers, paladins, shielding swordmages, and seekers to name just a few that jump to mind.