How many Skill Points in a Feat?

[Mordaenor]

Hey all! So, I'm trying to develop a DnD 3.5 Feat that would allow the character to get more skill points. The question is in two parts.

1) What do people think is MORE balanced... a) A Feat that you take once gives a small boost to the Skill Points at each Level, such as +2 skill point per level (not retro-active) or b) A Feat that you can take multiple times, but each time only gives you a one time larger boost, such as + 12.

2) Once we've decided that, how many SP should the Feat provide?

Any opinions?

There may be a Feat in a source book I haven't read that alread does this. If so, I'd appreciate the info.

[Zeta Kai]

Well, the PHB has a slew of feats that grant a one-time +2 bonus to two different skills. Therefore, a "balanced" feat is worth 4 skill points. However, those feats are widely regarded as worthless weaksauce. So, a "decent" feat should be worth more than that. How much more? Hmmm...

...Well, it's going to sound arbitrary (because it is), but I'll say +10 as a one-time bonus is good, with +2 per level being a good alternative. Some might say that +1/level would be more appropriate, but I'm of the opinion that feats should be far more significant than the ones in Core.

[Glimbur]

Open Minded. That said, I would prefer feats which just give bonus skill points every level, as that is more useful for maximizing a few skills and means a more smooth progression assuming you take it at low levels.

[tyckspoon]

There may be a Feat in a source book I haven't read that alread does this. If so, I'd appreciate the info.

Open Minded, Expanded Psionics Handbook. One-shot boost of 5 SP/selection. I have never seen anybody actually choose it and it's very rarely suggested for use around here, which implies that it either needs to grant a much larger boost or characters need many more feats to make it worth taking. I'd probably go for increased skill points/level, so that the feat becomes a long-term improvement to the character the way most good feats do, instead of eventually becoming forgotten when you level some more and don't have enough points to continue improving whatever you picked up with the feat boost.

[Morph Bark]

A feat that auto-grants ranks in two related skills (like the +2/+2 skill feats), as in an amount of ranks in each equal to half your character level (but never above this maximum, unless you put skill points into them, thus temporarily making the feat useless)?

[T.G. Oskar]

There's also Nymph's Kiss in (oh no!) Book of Exalted Deeds. It grants some minor boost in Diplomacy (IIRC) with fey creatures, but the big benefit is that, from the moment you take the feat and onwards, you get an extra skill point per level. Since you can take it at any level, it works as if you had an increase of 2 points in Intelligence taken one level earlier (hence you get to increase your skill points immediately, but not retroactively). It can be taken by anyone as well. Oodles better than Open Minded unless you take it at 18th level or so, since you can get more than 5 skill points out of it at the cost of 1 feat, but you can't get it more than once. Though, if taken at first level (IIRC), you get four times your skill points anyways, so it's an awesome 1st level feat use.

[Cieyrin]

Open-Minded is more useful in an E6 environment, where feats are more freely available and skill points are not once you hit level cap.

Another feat to consider is a favorite of mine, Master Linguist from Races of Eberron, which grants a new language upon acquisition and every level after that, so it virtually grants a skill point that can only be spent on Speak Language.

[Havvy]

There is one feat published in two WotC books that gives 5 free skill points. Skill focus give a +3 to the skill. Overall, these are weak. Don't use feats to increase your skill roll. I suggest using feats to increase your choice of options when using a skill. Those increase horizontal power, giving the player more times to be useful.

[tyckspoon]

It can be taken by anyone as well.

Anybody willing and able to maintain being Exalted Good, at least. That's a pretty obnoxious requirement if you take the book at all seriously.

[Lev]

How many points?
5 to 20

Open Minded to Nymph's Kiss

Mind you, Nymph's Kiss only does grant +1/lvl and has some steep RP cost.

[Mordaenor]

Nymph's Kiss sounds like a good start for me, I need a Feat that anyone can take. It should give a Weapons based classes a chance to compete with a Skills based class, and let a Skills class truly diversify their skill sets.

[T.G. Oskar]

Anybody willing and able to maintain being Exalted Good, at least. That's a pretty obnoxious requirement if you take the book at all seriously.

True, true. Except Nymph's Kiss is one of those few feats that make absolutely no sense as an Exalted Feat, given that it affects fey and not Eladrin (even though Eladrin are effectively "celestial fae"), and the bonus it grants is very good but not something really gamebreaking.

All you'd really need is to remove the [Exalted] tag and that's it. Homebrew that if you're the DM, negotiate with the DM if you're a player. It doesn't make you any more good, after all; Diplomacy is neutral at best, used to stop large-scale battles and tense situations but that can be used conveniently by Evil, and seems more like a Chaotic feat to me (negotiating with fey, expanding your horizons...)

But aside from being Exalted Good (which is not much a requirement rather than a restriction), it can be chosen by everyone; contrast with Able Learner, which can only be taken by humans or human-descended characters.

[Morph Bark]

All you'd really need is to remove the [Exalted] tag and that's it. Homebrew that if you're the DM, negotiate with the DM if you're a player. It doesn't make you any more good, after all; Diplomacy is neutral at best, used to stop large-scale battles and tense situations but that can be used conveniently by Evil, and seems more like a Chaotic feat to me (negotiating with fey, expanding your horizons...)

The RP requirements should be enough anyway. Nymphs will likely not want to associate much with evil characters, or however the DM makes the nymphs to be in the campaign setting - which limits the use anyway.

[Zeta Kai]

All you'd really need is to remove the [Exalted] tag and that's it.

I'd double the bonus to +2 skill points per level, but I prefer feats to count for something truly significant. Some people are okay with the feats in Core, but I think that they are usually rather lame (Natural Spell, of course, being the egregious antithesis of this).

[Lev]

I'd double the bonus to +2 skill points per level, but I prefer feats to count for something truly significant. Some people are okay with the feats in Core, but I think that they are usually rather lame (Natural Spell, of course, being the egregious antithesis of this).

If all you drink is soda, water tastes pretty lame.

[Zeta Kai]

If all you drink is soda, water tastes pretty lame.

Better feats won't make you sick, & if you can only have seven of them in your career, then they might as well taste good.

[lightningcat]

I'd double the bonus to +2 skill points per level, but I prefer feats to count for something truly significant. Some people are okay with the feats in Core, but I think that they are usually rather lame (Natural Spell, of course, being the egregious antithesis of this).

Nymph's kiss gives you a +2 bonus to all Cha-based skills, as well as a +1 bonus to saves against spells and spell like abilities, in addition to the skill points.

My group has houseruled that Alertness and similar feats give a +3 bonus, not that they take them any more often, but it helps if the feat is a prerequisite or bonus feat.

[Lev]

Better feats won't make you sick, & if you can only have seven of them in your career, then they might as well taste good.

As I said, tasting good is relative.

[Glimbur]

I'd double the bonus to +2 skill points per level, but I prefer feats to count for something truly significant. Some people are okay with the feats in Core, but I think that they are usually rather lame (Natural Spell, of course, being the egregious antithesis of this).

I'd agree. Make a feat called Studious or Skilled or something, and give +2 skill points per level, retroactive even. Feats are expensive.

[firemagehao]

Better feats won't make you sick, & if you can only have seven of them in your career, then they might as well taste good.

1. Yay for fighters!

2. Not in the case of epic campaigns.

[Eloel]

1. Yay for fighters!

That is good. Though you can make them non-fighter feats, and you'll be ok.

2. Not in the case of epic campaigns.

At epic levels, non-spellcraft skill ranks do not matter.

[firemagehao]

At epic levels, non-spellcraft skill ranks do not matter.

Knowledge religion, arcana, or nature also play large rolls for a similar purpose. Epic skill ranks always help rouges, as well as psions with autohypnosis (How could being able to mentally prevent you own death be a bad thing).

My point int the original post was that epic characters get lots bonus feats.

[Eloel]

Knowledge religion, arcana, or nature also play large rolls for a similar purpose. Epic skill ranks always help rogues, as well as psions with autohypnosis (How could being able to mentally prevent you own death be a bad thing).

My point int the original post was that epic characters get lots bonus feats.

Had to fix.