Abjurant Champ Build Question

[Old Man NPC]

Hey, I've got a Ftr1/Sorc4 that's about to take levels in Abjurant Champion... But I don't know what to do with him after that. I want to maximize my casting, since the DM has nixed swiftblade, but don't want to be a vanilla sorceror. Any suggestions?

Restrictions: Core, Complete, and FR books only.

[Eldariel]

AC requires +5 BAB to enter. The standard entry is Martial 2/Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 1. Martial 1/Sorcerer 6/Spellsword 1 also works.


The options after Abjurant Champion are Sacred Exorcist (sexy on Sorcerer due to Cha-synergy, btw) and Eldritch Knight, really. EK loses one CL but gets full BAB, SE loses 2 BAB but gets full casting and a bunch of tasty class features, most important of which is Turn Undead which in turn you can use for Divine Might (aka. Cha to damage for a round Cha+3 times per day as a free action!). Should come as no surprise that I like X 2/Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Sacred Exorcist 8 quite a bit.

[Douglas]

You need two more points of BAB before Abjurant Champion if I remember the prereqs right.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I generally go Pal2/Sorc4/Spellsword1/AbCHamp5

You get the following advantages:

1) Casting stat to all saves. It's like a Cloak of Resistance... that stacks with a Cloak of Resistance.

2) Spellsword gets you -10% ASF, which means Mithral Chain Shirt without needing Twilight. It also gets +1 BAB and advances casting, which gets you into AbChamp by character level 8, which is about the soonest a full caster can get in

3) AbChamp is made of win. For any Gish build, this is needed.

From there, you have two options:

1) Sacred Exorcist. Tasty good, as others have said.

2) Legacy Champion. CHEESE ALERT! Auto-quicken of 7th level Abjuration spells may lead to books being thrown at you by the GM.

[true_shinken]

Cyran Avenger.
Avenging Strike for that tasty, tasy Charisma synergy.

[Keld Denar]

You are actually better going:
Paladin2/Sorcerer4/Spellsword1/AbChamp4/SacEx1/AbChamp+1/SacEx+7.

This gets you Turn Undead at level 12, just in time to take a feat like Divine Might. It may not make much of a difference, but it does make a difference.

[RelentlessImp]

An alternative to Eldritch Knight: Knight Phantom (Five Nations, Eberron sourcebook); almost identical prereqs, though you have to burn a spell known on 'phantom steed'. I like the class features, personally.

[Keld Denar]

Also loses 2 feats vs Eldritch Knight...

[Coidzor]

a level of dragon slayer could also give +1 BAB, +1 CL after/before Spellsword, couldn't it? ...can't remember if it has annoying feat prereqs though.

Edit: Draconomicon isn't FR or complete. Ah well.

[RelentlessImp]

a level of dragon slayer could also give +1 BAB, +1 CL after/before Spellsword, couldn't it? ...can't remember if it has annoying feat prereqs though.

It also gives proficiencies that can be used to meet stuff like Eldritch Knight and Abjurant Champion.

[Coidzor]

It also gives proficiencies that can be used to meet stuff like Eldritch Knight and Abjurant Champion.

Indeed, though if he's already taken fighter, unless he's traded proficiencies for something like armored mage, he wouldn't really get anything from it on that front.

I think 1st level would still give an aura of fear though.

Hmm. FR books... Watergate, City of Splendors has some kind of Grey Hand gish class that's full BAB, though not worth taking full levels in due to the abilities not being that nifty beyond levels 2-3 (is 5 levels long), if I'm recalling correctly. Is either full-casting or casting-1.

[Old Man NPC]

The issue is that I've already taken the levels mentioned above. I may end up talking to the DM to see if he'll let me switch over my fighter levels for Paladin though, especially since my rp has kinda leaned me in that direction anyway.

Dragonomicon isn't allowed, nor is anything from Eberron. The DM is practically allergic to Ebberon, he hates it so much. Cyran Avenger? What's that from?

And I have to ask, what's this about cheese from the Legacy Champion?

[gbprime]

If you've already taken the levels and cannot or do not want to retrain, then you'll need 1 more BAB, take Spellsword 1, THEN Abjurant Champion. Since Versatile Spellcaster is out (forbidden book), your best bet now is 2 levels sorcerer (or 2 levels in a caster PrC you already qualify for due to 8 ranks in some skill).

[Greenish]

Dragonomicon isn't allowed, nor is anything from Eberron. The DM is practically allergic to Ebberon, he hates it so much. Cyran Avenger? What's that from?

From Five Nations, an Eberron book.

And I have to ask, what's this about cheese from the Legacy Champion?

It progresses existing class features. Beyond their normal maximum, by some readings.

[mikethepoor]

This won't help the OP since it's using UA material, but I like Ftr2/BattleSorc4 to get into Abjurant Champion. OP, if you're looking for some cool flavor you could try the blood magus PrC.

[Coidzor]

ah, no grey hand enforcer from Waterdeep: City of Splendors loses first spellcasting level and is only 5 levels long. plus it needs endurance and toughness as prereqs plus bab 7 or 4th level spells.

Knight of the blue moon requires turn undead though would be good otherwise.

Welp, that's one sourcebook out.

[herrhauptmann]

Knight of the blue moon requires turn undead though would be good otherwise.

Welp, that's one sourcebook out.

Take sacred exorcist, it grants turn undead. Complete Divine

[Private-Prinny]

You are actually better going:
Paladin2/Sorcerer4/Spellsword1/AbChamp4/SacEx1/AbChamp+1/SacEx+7.

This gets you Turn Undead at level 12, just in time to take a feat like Divine Might. It may not make much of a difference, but it does make a difference.

How do you do that? You need to be able to cast Dismissal to get into Sacred Exorcist, which you wouldn't get until level 12 due to the 2 levels of Paladin. Am I overlooking something?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

This won't help the OP since it's using UA material, but I like Ftr2/BattleSorc4 to get into Abjurant Champion. OP, if you're looking for some cool flavor you could try the blood magus PrC.

That would be about the least powerful method of entry, but yes, it is an option.

Battle Sorcerer is made of Fail. You loose spells known, this breaks the cardinal rule of sorcerer building.

[Old Man NPC]

I'm thinking of going 2 more levels of sorceror to get the BAB, then going into Abj Ch... After that, if I can find a way into Sacred Exorcist then I might go for it. If not, then the old standby (EK) looks like my best option =/ Either way, I only end up losing 2 caster levels.

I might be able to convince the DM to let me retrain into paladin, but it's very unlikely.. And I'm not sure about him letting me 1 lvl dip into SS, but I'll ask ;)

[gbprime]

I'm thinking of going 2 more levels of sorceror to get the BAB, then going into Abj Ch...

And I'm not sure about him letting me 1 lvl dip into SS, but I'll ask ;)

You need 1 more BAB to qualify for Spellsword and 2 more to qualify for Abj Champ. That's why you take the 1 level dip into spellsword. With it, you need +2 sorcerer / +1 spellsword THEN Abj Champ. Without it, you need +4 sorcerer OR +1 fighter / + 2 sorcerer.

And spellsword is Complete Warrior, it shouldn't be a tough sell.

[Dusk Eclipse]

The issue is that I've already taken the levels mentioned above. I may end up talking to the DM to see if he'll let me switch over my fighter levels for Paladin though, especially since my rp has kinda leaned me in that direction anyway.

Dragonomicon isn't allowed, nor is anything from Eberron. The DM is practically allergic to Ebberon, he hates it so much. Cyran Avenger? What's that from?

And I have to ask, what's this about cheese from the Legacy Champion?

How can he hate the most awesome Setting? (IMO).

Legacy champion advances class features by 8/10 or 7/10, that means that you can advance features dependant on class levels (such as the swift abjuration of Abjurant Champion)]

[Coidzor]

More like, how can he summon up enough vitriol to not only hate it but to blanket ban material from books associated with it that are not dependent on the setting.

[ErrantX]

How do you do that? You need to be able to cast Dismissal to get into Sacred Exorcist, which you wouldn't get until level 12 due to the 2 levels of Paladin. Am I overlooking something?

Correction, you need to have 10 levels minimum for 5th level magic / dismissal (a sorc/wiz 5 spell) as a sorcerer. So, your standard Pal2/Sorc4/Spellsword1/Abj Champ5 has 10 levels of sorcerer casting. At reaching 12th level, gain dismissal as your new spell and go Sacred Exorcist for the rest of your career.

-X

[Private-Prinny]

Correction, you need to have 10 levels minimum for 5th level magic / dismissal (a sorc/wiz 5 spell) as a sorcerer. So, your standard Pal2/Sorc4/Spellsword1/Abj Champ5 has 10 levels of sorcerer casting. At reaching 12th level, gain dismissal as your new spell and go Sacred Exorcist for the rest of your career.

-X

But his suggested build is Pally 2/Sorc 4/Spellsword 1/Abj Champ 4 and then grab a level of SE for level 12 to snag Divine Might early. I'm wondering how he pulls that off with 9 levels of Sorcerer casting.

[ErrantX]

But his suggested build is Pally 2/Sorc 4/Spellsword 1/Abj Champ 4 and then grab a level of SE for level 12 to snag Divine Might early. I'm wondering how he pulls that off with 9 levels of Sorcerer casting.

Poor planning and/or Versatile Spellcaster shenanigans, all I can come up with.

-X

[Gralamin]

Or he just forgot that Sorcerers are screwed over for no good reason

[Old Man NPC]

Hey, I wanted to thank all of you who replied to my questions. My DM's okayed spellsword before Abj Ch. And I'm thinking he'll go for the Sacred Exorcist later, by the way I've been playing my character.

I appreciate the help.

[Keld Denar]

Your welcome! Always good to see someone helped (rather than harmed) by the wisdom of the infinite masses of the internet!

[Old Man NPC]

One more question. Any suggestion on spells through Abj. ch. 5? My DM is going for the spellsword level, so I don't lose the CL.