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Thread: Class for a Mongrelfolk
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2010-11-06, 04:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Class for a Mongrelfolk
I've been reading through Races of Destiny, and I found the fluff for the mongrelfolk interesting. Unlike their original incarnation (IIRC), Races of Destiny specifies that most mongrelfolk look like ordinary humanoids, just with ambiguous racial features. Apparently mongrelfolk intentionally promote the myth that they are hideous to behold so that the majority regular mongrelfolk can blend in to humanoid society.
With that in mind, a mongrelfolk character with a focus on blending in/subterfuge would be quite interesting. I imagine a character who is introduced to the party merely in terms of traits: he's short, has black hair, or the like. The character would never be described as a mongrelfolk, and it would be left to the other players to speculate as to what race he is.
A traditional subtle character might not work very well, as mongrelfolk take a large penalty to Cha, along with a penalty to Int. Their ridiculous Con bonus also cries out for optimization.
My question then is, is there a way to combine these concepts? What kind of build would capitalize on the ambiguity and subtlety of these creatures while still amassing Con-synergy?Lord Raziere herd I like Blasphemy, so Urpriest Exalted as a Malefactor
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2010-11-06, 04:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class for a Mongrelfolk
Beguiler (or Rogue)/Chameleon? Don't mongrelfolk count as all races, for the purpose of race-specific stuff? IIRC, that's what the FF(?) says.
Originally Posted by The Doctor
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2010-11-06, 04:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-11-06, 04:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class for a Mongrelfolk
Lord Raziere herd I like Blasphemy, so Urpriest Exalted as a Malefactor
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2010-11-06, 04:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class for a Mongrelfolk
Maybe Rogue/Spymaster, then?
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(duhn duhn duuuuuuuuuhn!)Last edited by dsmiles; 2010-11-06 at 04:40 PM.
Originally Posted by The Doctor
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2010-11-06, 04:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-11-06, 04:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class for a Mongrelfolk
ugg! I hate the races of destiny mongrelfolk. Other than that I can't think of anything useful to add as I don't have any books handy.
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2010-11-06, 04:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class for a Mongrelfolk
Got a source for this last claim?
Rogue/Spymaster is what I thought at first, but it feels like it would be suboptimal to pull off with the race's ability adjustments, and it doesn't make much use of the Con. On the flipside, Dragonfire Adepts like Con, but could they do subtle?Lord Raziere herd I like Blasphemy, so Urpriest Exalted as a Malefactor
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2010-11-06, 04:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class for a Mongrelfolk
Page 99, Races of Destiny:
Humanoid (human): Mongrelfolk are humanoids with the human subtype.Marut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
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2010-11-06, 04:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class for a Mongrelfolk
The Human subtype is part of it, and I also remember reading in a comprehensive list of races that Mongrelfolk always come under the Human category. The first point, which I know has already been mentioned, is the more important part, because all a Human is is a Humanoid (Human), just as an Elf is just a Humanoid (Elf).
EDIT: Rogue/Spymaster'd.Last edited by Scarey Nerd; 2010-11-06 at 04:51 PM.
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2010-11-06, 04:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class for a Mongrelfolk
DFAs have building voice which gives +6 on all social skills and many of the social skills as class skills. They also have the humanoid form invocation which is great for disguise. Plus, you don't really need to carry a weapon since your main weapon is in your lungs. That makes you dangerous even if you voluntarily disarm yourself.
EDIT: Also walk unseen for unlimited invisible...
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2010-11-06, 07:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class for a Mongrelfolk
I still think a beguiler could work for a mongrelfolk. If you put an 18 in INT, you'll be starting with a 16, which should be more than enough for your purposes. If you're doing point buy, you could put fewer points in CON, obviously, and make it up with your racial bonus.
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2010-11-06, 07:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class for a Mongrelfolk
So Race requirements are really subtype requirements? I suppose that's believable...but on the other hand, requirements like True Beholder and True Dragon don't work like that. Is there any clearer presentation of this? Also, this means that Mongrelfolk can take Human Paragon?
@Keld: Hadn't realized Dragonfire Adepts had that kind of stuff going. It does make sense, though, dragons often have a more subtle role. A "silverbrow" mongrelfolk would be an interesting concept I suppose...I feel like the dragony flavor would distract from the everyman concept, though. I'd really like to play a mongrelfolk whose shtick is being so ordinary that nobody questions his presence.Lord Raziere herd I like Blasphemy, so Urpriest Exalted as a Malefactor
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2010-11-06, 07:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class for a Mongrelfolk
I thought the ideal class for mongrelfolk was rogue?
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2010-11-06, 07:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class for a Mongrelfolk
Lord Raziere herd I like Blasphemy, so Urpriest Exalted as a Malefactor
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2010-11-06, 07:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class for a Mongrelfolk
Does barbarian rage disallow the use of SLAs? If not, a Barbarian 1/Dragonfire Adept sounds great.
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2010-11-06, 08:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class for a Mongrelfolk
Binder might be an interesting choice. Change up your class features to keep them guessing what you can do, in addition to being a generic face.
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2010-11-06, 08:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class for a Mongrelfolk
Lord Raziere herd I like Blasphemy, so Urpriest Exalted as a Malefactor
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2010-11-06, 08:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class for a Mongrelfolk
Any meldshaper could work as well.
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2010-11-06, 08:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class for a Mongrelfolk
Lord Raziere herd I like Blasphemy, so Urpriest Exalted as a Malefactor
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2010-11-06, 08:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class for a Mongrelfolk
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2010-11-06, 08:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-11-06, 08:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class for a Mongrelfolk
Totemest is a bit flashy, but what about Incarnate?
Edit: Swordsage'dLast edited by Beelzebub1111; 2010-11-06 at 08:37 PM.
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2010-11-06, 09:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-11-06, 09:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-11-06, 09:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class for a Mongrelfolk
Yeah, which is actually more of a problem than it might be in general, because messing up a pact means the character is forced to do something obvious and obnoxious, going against the whole obsession with being inconspicuous.
I kinda wish mongrelfolk had everybody's subtypes, rather than just human, so they could take everybody's paragon classes. (Speaking of, no-one has yet provided evidence that racial subtypes are equivalent to races. Are there no PrCs with Race: Lizardfolk or the like as requirements?) A pile of paragon classes would be very thematic for this kind of character if not particularly powerful.Lord Raziere herd I like Blasphemy, so Urpriest Exalted as a Malefactor
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2010-11-07, 03:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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2010-11-07, 05:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class for a Mongrelfolk
If you want to abuse the high Con even more, try see if you can/would like to become a dragonborn.
That combined with Binder would work out really well.Homebrewer's Signature | Avatar by Strawberries
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2010-11-07, 05:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class for a Mongrelfolk
I approve of Binder/Chameleon, and I can point you towards an example of a subtype being used for a PrC. The Scaled Horror in SS requires the "aquatic" or "reptilian" subtype. That's as close as I could get to your dilemma, but it's a good starting point for arguing this in your favor.
Originally Posted by The Doctor
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2010-11-07, 08:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class for a Mongrelfolk
I really think that "True" is used to distinguish a specific creature within a creature type, like True Dragon or True Beholder or something like that. Nonspecific references to races should allow their racial variations.
When your character is Humanoid (human), I don't see how you can argue that you're not human.- Chameleon Base Class [3.5]/[PF]: A versatile, morphic class that mimics one basic party role (warrior, caster, sneak, etc) at a time. If you find yourself getting bored of any class you play too long, the Chameleon is for you!
- Warlock Power Sources [3.5]: Making Hellfire Warlock part of the base class and providing other similar options for Warlocks whose powers don't come from devils.