Interesting Low Tier Classes for an Optimizer

[Tael]

So, I am going to be playing in a game with two newbies (as in, first time playing ever), and another very poor optimizer. The DM has rightfully decided that I need to scrap my current kick-ass ToB build in favor of something less powerful. But the problem is that I really can't think of any interesting classes to play that would be low-power (we've also already got a druid, rogue, sorcerer and psywar). Any suggestions on fun and interesting but less than powerful builds/classes?

[hamishspence]

Truenamer might be both fun and interesting, if optimized heavily.

[Malbordeus]

appart from the fact that they dont work very well mechanicly.

suggestion - binder? or try and make a shadowcaster not suck?

second... your dm is complaining about your power and theres a druid in the party >_<

[Tael]

Truenamer might be both fun and interesting, if optimized heavily.

I'm actually not familiar with Truenamer high-op, but the campaign starts at level 5, which I don't think would be enough time to get all of the affiliations and magic items for a truenamer.

appart from the fact that they dont work very well mechanicly.

suggestion - binder? or try and make a shadowcaster not suck?

second... your dm is complaining about your power and theres a druid in the party >_<

Shadowcaster is interesting. Never played one before.

The druid is PF, and has never played D&D, or any other roleplaying games before. He won't be very good.

[Starbuck_II]

Dragon Shaman should be fine.

[hamishspence]

appart from the fact that they dont work very well mechanicly.

True. But I think there's a heavily optimized Truenamer build that manages to, mostly, get around some of the mechanical problems.

[Reluctance]

Bard. The best use for an optimizer in a low-op team is the healer/buffer/general force multiplier.

[Malbordeus]

oooh, amusement value - take class combinations that enable an abberant shadow improved familiar :P

[Amphetryon]

Samurai, optimized as a demoralizing force.

[The Shadowmind]

Maybe a factotum? The party already has the roles covered(druid-tank/healer?,rogue-skill monkey, sorcerer-blaster, psywar-tank). So maybe a jack of trades class would help.

[true_shinken]

I dare you to play a Soulknife.

[Kantolin]

I'm very fond of lurks, and they're pretty low-op but have a bevy of things to do.

If I recall, Incarnates are also not that high tier and have neatness to them, as do shadowcasters.

Perhaps a prestige class that makes you less effective? Master of the Unseen Hand or something, on a say sorceror or psion?

[Tael]

Alright, thanks guys, I think I'll be rolling with a Shadowcaster.

[Pechvarry]

I think it's worth pointing this out if you want to go Shadowcaster:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/3273239-post2.html

Mouseferatu is the author of the Shadowcaster class, so I'd take this as better than RAW.

Read the rest of the thread if you need any clarifications -- it's probably covered somewhere in there.

[grarrrg]

Samurai, optimized as a demoralizing force.

Seconded. Somebody on these boards has a link about a "super awesome fear inducing pure Samurai" build they did.

It basically went:
Samurai: move action > scare bejezus out of opponent with really high save DC.
Opponent: impossible to make save, entire round spent cowering in fear.
Samurai: Auto win.

[Lev]

Yeah it looks like if the fun in the game is to opt. then pick a bottom tier class.

Otherwise I'd suggest something like a ranged disarm ranger or a Wu Gen.

[Crossblade]

Play a Knight. Have it be an AC tank. Keep everyone else alive. It's Tier 5 after all. If you want to RP a little, dip into Bard to help buff others, play yourself off as a General type, who commands, defends and protects his companions.

Good luck optimizing that, the armor and casting thing don't exactly mix, but I'm sure it can be done.

[Gralamin]

Seconded. Somebody on these boards has a link about a "super awesome fear inducing pure Samurai" build they did.

It basically went:
Samurai: move action > scare bejezus out of opponent with really high save DC.
Opponent: impossible to make save, entire round spent cowering in fear.
Samurai: Auto win.

It also relied on the fact the opponent was not immune to fear or mind-affecting, since all fear effects are mind-affecting.

[Wings of Peace]

Generic Warrior, so many directions you can go with one.

[Eloel]

Samurai, optimized as a demoralizing force.

While this might be fun for the game, it'll create HUGE problems in the long run. Think of the events;

1- People play full-casters
2- You optimize and be better than them with Samurai (a weak melee. Note that ToB has been banned because it's "too good")
3- The newbies think casters suck and melee is the best
4- You (or your DM, or whomever) come to the board complaining your group thinks melee are better than casters.

"You" in this context, is people who do this.
This happens very (very) often. Do them a favor and play a (your) character worse than the Druid and the Sorceror.

[Amphetryon]

While this might be fun for the game, it'll create HUGE problems in the long run. Think of the events;

1- People play full-casters
2- You optimize and be better than them with Samurai (a weak melee. Note that ToB has been banned because it's "too good")
3- The newbies think casters suck and melee is the best
4- You (or your DM, or whomever) come to the board complaining your group thinks melee are better than casters.

"You" in this context, is people who do this.
This happens very (very) often. Do them a favor and play a (your) character worse than the Druid and the Sorceror.

The numbers here are not intended to correspond to the numbered points above.

1) This level of optimization of the demoralizing Samurai - the level shown in Shneekeythelost's sig, if memory serves - is neither required nor specified in my suggestion.
2) As indicated by Gralamin, demoralizing effects are ignored by the wide swath of enemies that are immune to mind-effecting tactics, leaving other players plenty to do. Couple this with the fact that, in my experience, most combats are against multiple enemies and the demoralizing Samurai is taking out one at a time, and your fellow players don't get the feeling they're playing with the guy in the blue pajamas/red cape ensemble.
3) He's chosen a caster - a Shadowcaster, to be precise.

[Gnaeus]

2) As indicated by Gralamin, demoralizing effects are ignored by the wide swath of enemies that are immune to mind-effecting tactics, leaving other players plenty to do. Couple this with the fact that, in my experience, most combats are against multiple enemies and the demoralizing Samurai is taking out one at a time, and your fellow players don't get the feeling they're playing with the guy in the blue pajamas/red cape ensemble.

Schneeky I feel sure would respond that intimidate is not a mind-effecting action (with his lengthy RAW argument about it) and that there are ways to intimidate multiple opponents at once.

[Flickerdart]

Shadowcasters are fantastic as a battle familiar build.

Take Dark Familiar (ToM), Improved Familiar and Enspell Familiar (DragMag). Cast Umbral Touch and Flicker, share them with your familiar. You now both have an immediate action short-range teleport and make touch attacks that deal 5d6 damage plus slow. Good familiars are Coure Eladrin (BoED 168) and Beguiler (Shining South 60). Coure also make absurd scouts because they can turn incorporeal and unhearable, and the Dark template from Dark Familiar makes them even better.
Instead of Enspell Familiar, if you don't want to spend the feat, there are a few spells and magic items that let you put a familiar in your pocket and take them out again once you've moved, so that you can move with them without breaking the spell share.