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  1. - Top - End - #211
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    Default Re: More Dinosaurs than Isla Nublar (okay, not really, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    None from me. Weight fits, length to base rather than tip of tail (if treated as a quadruped) fits, height (if modeled as rearing up the way the animals in Jurassic Park do before coming into the kitchen) might top 8 ft, so fits.

    Even the revised version of "megaraptor" in the SRD, is Large.

    So, it should work.

    Maybe it should have a fairly low reach value- if a 28 ft allosaurus is also Large.

    Allowing the smaller Large biped dinosaurs, a 5 ft reach instead of the normal 10 ft reach, might help to make the variation in size within Large creatures, clear.
    I like your suggestion. I think you're right, 5 ft, reach should be fine. I'm looking at much more recent conception drawings of Utahraptor right now, and the arms don't look like they can reach far.

    Also, I found a picture comparing the size of Utahraptor and Megaraptor; they're about the same size.
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  2. - Top - End - #212
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    Default Re: More Dinosaurs than Isla Nublar (okay, not really, PEACH)

    RAW states that 16 feet long up to the base of the tail counts as Huge. A 28-foot Allosaurus is unlikely to be Huge, since about half of that length is tail. What you're left with is 14 feet, Large but close enough that a few hit dice would make it Huge.

    Judging from this technical drawing, the tail is again half of Utahraptor's length. So the length we should be concerned with is 10.5 feet. This would fit a Large quadruped, though the 6-foot height still suggests a Medium biped.

    I would agree on Large in this case. Treating theropods as bipeds does not suit the concept as originally intended, since the rules were likely written with upright humanoids in mind. Theropods had mostly-horizontal backs, so treating them as quadrupeds for the purposes of size is more accurate.

    EDIT: Since the latest OOTS comic came out the way it did, I have got to get to that custom Allosaurus. I'll have it by Monday.
    Last edited by Dire Moose; 2011-02-27 at 12:53 AM.
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  3. - Top - End - #213
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    Default Re: More Dinosaurs than Isla Nublar (okay, not really, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dire Moose View Post
    EDIT: Since the latest OOTS comic came out the way it did, I have got to get to that custom Allosaurus. I'll have it by Monday.
    Okay.

    In the meantime, I've come up with a feat for Utahraptor. It seems that they were especially good at hunting herd animals larger than themselves, so I wanted a way to reflect it mechanically.
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  4. - Top - End - #214
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    Default Re: More Dinosaurs than Isla Nublar (okay, not really, PEACH)


    Exotic Weapons
    {table=head]Weapon | Cost | Dmg (S) | Dmg (M) | Critical | Range Increment | Weight* | Type**
    Thagomizer*** | 45 gp | 1d10 | 2d6 | 19-20/x3 | --- | 10 lb. | Piercing or Slashing[/table]
    *Weight figures are for Medium weapons. A Small weapon weighs half as much, and a Large weapon weighs twice as much.
    **When two types are given, the weapon is both types if the entry specifies "and," or either type (player’s choice at time of attack) if the entry specifies "or."
    ***Reach weapon


    Thagomizer: This weapon is modeled after the spiked tail of a stegosaur, appearing to be a long rope with four spikes made of sharpened bone at the end. When swung at a target, the weapon leaves nasty puncture wounds on the enemy's body. After damaging an opponent, you can trip the opponent with the weapon (during the attempt, the spikes lodge themselves inside the opponent's legs, granting you a +2 bonus on the trip attempt). You can drop the weapon to avoid being tripped on a failure. In addition, instead of striking an opponent 10 ft. away, you can swing the weapon in a 15 ft. arch 5 ft. in front of you. All creatures in the squares must succeed on a Reflex save (equal to your attack roll), or take slashing damage.
    Last edited by LOTRfan; 2011-02-27 at 01:15 PM.
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  5. - Top - End - #215
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    Default Re: More Dinosaurs than Isla Nublar (okay, not really, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by LOTRfan View Post
    Also, I found a picture comparing the size of Utahraptor and Megaraptor; they're about the same size.
    But very different in configuration.

    the D&D Megaraptor (listed as 24 ft long in MM) was a giant deinonychosaur.

    the real thing, while thought to be a deinonychosaur early on, turned out based on later material, to be an allosauroid- with very long hand claws.

    And quite a big one- Australovenator, it's smaller cousin:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australovenator
    was 20 ft long, but described as half the size of Megaraptor, in the Megaraptor description- though that's probably half the mass rather than half the length:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megaraptor

    Quote Originally Posted by Dire Moose View Post
    Judging from this technical drawing, the tail is again half of Utahraptor's length.
    The page of that artist, Scott Hartman:

    http://www.skeletaldrawing.com/artga...rtgallery.html

    is pretty good for dinosaur skeletons, and life drawings, in general.
    Last edited by hamishspence; 2011-02-27 at 03:57 PM.
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  6. - Top - End - #216
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    Default Re: More Dinosaurs than Isla Nublar (okay, not really, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    The page of that artist, Scott Hartman:

    http://www.skeletaldrawing.com/artga...rtgallery.html

    is pretty good for dinosaur skeletons, and life drawings, in general.
    Cool. I'll have to bookmark the site.
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  7. - Top - End - #217
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    Default Re: More Dinosaurs than Isla Nublar (okay, not really, PEACH)

    Deities! I'll be adding non-setting specific fluff later. The current one is Ka, converted from 2nd Edition Mystara. I'll be including planar allies and the like.

    Ka the Preserver
    Lesser Deity
    Divine Rank:
    10
    Symbol: A feathered, winged, amber-colored serpent
    Home Plane: The Prehistoric Haven of Virgultis (Celestia)
    Alignment: Lawful Good
    Worshipers: Saurials (specifically, Flyers, Hornheads, Bladebacks, and Finheads)
    Cleric Alignments: Lawful Good, Neutral Good, or Lawful Neutral
    Portfolio: Saurials, Preservation of species, Dinosaurs
    Domains: Good, Law, Protection, Scalykind*
    Favored Weapon: Longsword
    *See Player's Guide to Faerun
    Last edited by LOTRfan; 2011-02-27 at 05:07 PM.
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  8. - Top - End - #218
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    Default Re: More Dinosaurs than Isla Nublar (okay, not really, PEACH)

    Ka had the Knowledge domain rather than the Protection domain in Dragon 318 (page 72) however, the other domains all match.

    No favored weapon was given.
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  9. - Top - End - #219
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    Default Re: More Dinosaurs than Isla Nublar (okay, not really, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    Ka had the Knowledge domain rather than the Protection domain in Dragon 318 (page 72) however, the other domains all match.

    No favored weapon was given.
    Oh, he was already updated.

    Weird, I was just looking through that exact magazine a few hours ago. Did it list any planar allies?
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  10. - Top - End - #220
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    Default Re: More Dinosaurs than Isla Nublar (okay, not really, PEACH)

    Nope- it was a tiny snippet in the Children of Ka article.
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  11. - Top - End - #221
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    Default Re: More Dinosaurs than Isla Nublar (okay, not really, PEACH)

    That could explain why I missed it, then. I think I'll continue fleshing Ka (and new Saurial deities) out, though.
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  12. - Top - End - #222
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    Default Re: More Dinosaurs than Isla Nublar (okay, not really, PEACH)

    So, Dragon Magazine #328 had a variant Shifter whose ancestors were dinosaur-based lycanthropes. There were four new traits, none of which (as far as I am aware) received additional feats. Here is two. I'm away from my books, so the other two will have to come later.

    Junglerunner Elite [Shifter]
    Your junglerunner trait improves.
    Prerequisites: Shifter, Junglerunner trait.
    Benefits: When shifting, your base speed increases by an additional 20 ft.
    Normal: When shifting, your base speed increases by 20 ft.

    Raptorleap Elite [Shifter]
    Your raptorleap trait improves.
    Prerequisite: Shifter, Raptorleap trait.
    Benefits: When shifting, your racial jump bonus increases by +4.
    Normal: When shifting, you gain a +4 racial bonus to jump checks and are always treated as though having a running start.
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  13. - Top - End - #223
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    Default Re: More Dinosaurs than Isla Nublar (okay, not really, PEACH)

    The page of that artist, Scott Hartman:

    http://www.skeletaldrawing.com/artga...rtgallery.html

    is pretty good for dinosaur skeletons, and life drawings, in general.
    I know. I worked with Scott Hartman over the summer of 2007 in Wyoming and learned a lot from him.

    Anyhow, the Allosaurus is finally done:

    Spoiler
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    ALLOSAURUS
    Large Animal
    Hit Dice: 13d8+65 (123 hp)
    Initiative: +1
    Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares)
    Armor Class: 15 (-1 size, +1 Dex, +5 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 14
    Base Attack/Grapple: +9/+20
    Attack: Claw +16 melee (1d8+7) or bite +16 melee (1d8+10)
    Full attack: 2 claws +16 melee (1d8+7) and bite +11 melee (1d8+4)
    Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
    Special Attacks: Improved Grab
    Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
    Saves: Fort +13, Ref +9, Will +6
    Abilities: Str 24, Dex 13, Con 21, Int 2, Wis 15, Cha 10
    Skills: Hide +3, Listen +5, Spot +5, Survival +3
    Feats: Improved Natural Attack (claw), Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack
    Environment: Warm plains
    Organization: Solitary, pair, or pack (3-6)
    Challenge Rating: 7
    Treasure: None
    Alignment: Always neutral
    Advancement: 14-15 HD (Large), 16-23 HD (Huge)
    Level Adjustment: --

    Standing on two legs, this lean animal gazes around with cold, dull eyes adorned with small hornlets and a mouth lined with numerous sharp teeth. Its powerfully-built arms end in enlarged grasping hands with enormous hooked claws, while its long tail swishes around anxiously.

    This carnivore is equally capable of hunting small prey alone or teaming up in packs to bring down larger game. The young stay with their parents until grown and share in meals with them. On average, a full-grown Allosaurus is 27 feet long and weighs just over a ton.

    These statistics can be used to describe any similar carnosaur, such as Sinraptor, Neovenator, Australovenator, or Aerosteon.

    Combat
    When faced with a smaller opponent, an Allosaurus usually chases it down and grapples it in its claws, where a few bites will kill the immobilized creature in short order. Against foes bigger than themselves, allosaurs will use their Spring Attack ability to make repeated bite-and-retreat attacks until the prey is sufficiently weakened by blood loss to go in for the kill.

    Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, an Allosaurus must hit with a claw attack. It may then make a grapple attempt without provoking an attack of opportunity. If this is successful, it establishes a hold and may make a bite attack at its full attack bonus, even if it made a move action in the same round.
    Last edited by Dire Moose; 2011-03-02 at 03:11 PM.
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    Default Re: More Dinosaurs than Isla Nublar (okay, not really, PEACH)

    Looks good as a basic allosauroid template.

    I'd probably give the neovenatorids (especially the megaraptorans) a slightly boosted claw attack (and maybe speed) and the carcharodontosaurids a slightly boosted bite attack.

    But overall, I like this as an allosauroid model.
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    Default Re: More Dinosaurs than Isla Nublar (okay, not really, PEACH)

    I love it! I'll add it to the first page.

    Now that I have the Excellent Grasper feat done, Utahraptor should be done in a matter of hours.
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    Default Re: More Dinosaurs than Isla Nublar (okay, not really, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    Looks good as a basic allosauroid template.

    I'd probably give the neovenatorids (especially the megaraptorans) a slightly boosted claw attack (and maybe speed) and the carcharodontosaurids a slightly boosted bite attack.

    But overall, I like this as an allosauroid model.
    Neovenatorids are typically similar enough to Allosaurus not to need any revisions. Within this group, only Megaraptor and Chilantaisaurus are known to have had enormous claws, and I certainly think that these two should have their claw damage increased to 1d12.

    Australovenator and Fukuiraptor had claws similar to Allosaurus, while claws have not been found for the rest of the family.

    As for carcharodontosaurids, I think that Eocarcharia and Shaochilong would be similar to an Allosaurus with 1d6 claw damage and 2d6 bite damage, while Acrocanthosaurus would be the same after a size adjustment to Huge*. A completely new statblock is probably needed for Carcharodontosaurus, Giganotosaurus, Tyrannotitan, and Mapusaurus. These would definitely be Huge, with advanced hit dice quickly going Gargantuan, for one.

    *The back ridge has been theorized to add extra energy to aid in running, though, so maybe its Constitution should go up a bit.

    Finally, for other carnosaurs, sinraptorids can be described using these stats as well. Sinraptor and Metriacanthosaurus are probably the same as the standard Allosaurus, while Lourinhanosaurus should be downgraded a bit as it was smaller and weaker (though not Medium). For Yangchuanosaurus, Y. hepingensis should be a standard Allosaurus, while Y. magnus is Huge and needs additional hit dice (It should share its stats with Saurophaganax).

    *gasp* OK, I doubt anyone is ever going to use all those dinosaurs I mentioned. I probably didn't need to go that overboard.
    Last edited by Dire Moose; 2011-02-28 at 10:35 PM.
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    Default Re: More Dinosaurs than Isla Nublar (okay, not really, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dire Moose View Post
    A completely new statblock is probably needed for Carcharodontosaurus, Giganotosaurus, Tyrannotitan, and Mapusaurus. These would definitely be Huge, with advanced hit dice quickly going Gargantuan, for one.
    the first Giganotosaurus skeleton was estimated as being of a 40-41 ft animal,
    http://schools-wikipedia.org/wp/g/Giganotosaurus.htm

    One jawbone fragment was found that was from an animal 8% bigger, estimated at 6.2 tons in weight.

    so they might not have reached Gargantuan size (16 tons, 32 ft long from nose to base of tail).

    (I've noticed that many other sites tend to revise Gigantosaurus upward- but have a distinct lack of reference back to the original material).

    By comparison- Tyrannosaurus "Sue" was 42 ft long, and there is a skull 6.5% bigger than "Sue's".

    Even Spinosaurus may have been close to the minimum for Gargantuan (60 ft long using largest estimates, and maybe 9 tons. While one scientist- Donald Henderson- argued it was shorter but much heavier- in the 16 ton range- his estimates were criticized as being skewed- relying too much on extrapolation from tyrannosaurs and the like- whereas spinosaurs have a more slender build.

    As to whether Australovenator should have a better claw attack than normal allosaurs- the Wikipedia pic of the skeletal material known to have been recovered, does show at least one large hand claw.
    Last edited by hamishspence; 2011-03-01 at 04:22 AM.
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    Default Re: More Dinosaurs than Isla Nublar (okay, not really, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    As to whether Australovenator should have a better claw attack than normal allosaurs- the Wikipedia pic of the skeletal material known to have been recovered, does show at least one large hand claw.
    I believe I saw the same reconstruction. Yes, Australovenator did have large claws, but so did Allosaurus. That's why their claw attacks do 1d8 damage instead of 1d6.
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    Default Re: More Dinosaurs than Isla Nublar (okay, not really, PEACH)

    It really depends on if the claw is proportionally smaller than that of most megaraptorans.

    Though, if it already has claws slightly more damaging than can be expected- it can work for most of them- with the ones with proportionately larger ones, being represented maybe by swapping a feat for Improved Critical.

    I've seen a skeletal reconstruction of Neovenator itself in a museum, which looked pretty traditionally allosauroid- without exceptionally large claws. Though that might be due to those parts not being available- and it being reconstructed using existing allosauroids as a baseline.

    What about hit dice? WoTC statted Allosaurus as a 10 HD creature, T. rex as a 18 HD creature, and Spinosaurus as a 20 HD creature- are these a bit on the low side?
    Last edited by hamishspence; 2011-03-01 at 12:49 PM.
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    Default Re: More Dinosaurs than Isla Nublar (okay, not really, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    Spinosaurus as a 20 HD creature- are these a bit on the low side?
    Is it just me, or did WotC base the Spinosaurus off of the Jurassic Park III megapredator (which was releashed in theaters a year earlier to publishing) rather than the real life creature, which most likely ate fish?
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    Default Re: More Dinosaurs than Isla Nublar (okay, not really, PEACH)

    So should I take Allosaurus down to 10 HD or leave it at the current 13? I might do the former.

    And yes, that assessment of Spinosaurus is probably correct. I'm not even sure it should be Gargantuan either, but there are so few remains that its size is far from certain.

    Regardless, it's not something any sane person ought to get too close to. I mean, grizzly bears eat mostly fish, berries and small game and they're incredibly dangerous.
    Last edited by Dire Moose; 2011-03-01 at 09:31 PM.
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    Default Re: More Dinosaurs than Isla Nublar (okay, not really, PEACH)

    I looked it up, and the Spinosaurus in Jurassic Park III is actually small than the theorized size of its real life cousins (59 ft. long). Perhaps they should stay Gargantuan...
    Spoiler
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    Also, found a really cool pic.



    I like the Allosaur as it is, but it is your choice.
    Last edited by LOTRfan; 2011-03-01 at 09:41 PM.
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    Default Re: More Dinosaurs than Isla Nublar (okay, not really, PEACH)

    Starting the stats of the creature that is called when a Cleric of Ka casts Greater Planar Ally. As you can see, I am not done yet (she's a Fossilized Celestial Anthropomorphic Parasaurolophus, Paladin 16th).

    Spes
    Large Undead (Extraplanar, Augmented Monstrous Humanoid, Good, Law)
    Hit Dice:
    16d12; Hit Points: 56
    Initiative: +0
    Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares), swim 20 ft.
    Armor Class: (-1 size, +17 natural), touch , flat footed
    Base Attack/Grapple: +18/+27
    Attack: +10 Axiomatic Holy Vorpal Longsword +24 melee (2d6+6 damage)
    Full Attack: +10 Axiomatic Holy Vorpal Longsword +24 melee (2d6+6 damage), or 2 claws +23 melee (2d8+5 damage)
    Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
    Special Attacks: smite evil 5/day
    Special Qualities: Scent, low-light vision, Detect evil, Divine Grace, aura of courage, lay on hands, remove disease 4/week, darkvision 60 ft., Resistance to acid and electricity 5, spell resistance 8, immunity to cold, immunity to mind effects and death effects, damage reduction 10/adamantine, undead traits
    Saves: Fort +11, Ref +10, Will +11
    Abilities: Str 20, Dex 10, Con ---, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 12
    Skills: Heal +12, Diplomacy +16, Sense Motive +14
    Feats: Quickdraw, Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved Sunder, Combat Reflexes
    Environment: The Seven Mountain Heavens of Mount Celestia (Virgultis)
    Organization: Solitary
    Challenge Rating:
    Treasure: Standard
    Alignment: Lawful Good

    Detect Evil (Sp): Spes can use this ability, as the spell, at will.

    Smite Evil (Su): 5/day, Spes may deal 18 extra damage when attacking an evil creature. If the Spes accidentally smites a creature that is not evil, the smite has no effect, but the ability is still used.

    Remove Disease (Sp): Spes can produce a Remove Disease effect four times a week.

    Lay on Hands (Su): Spes can heal 16 points of damage per day.

    Aura of Courage (Ex): Spes is immune to fear (magical or otherwise). Each ally within 10 feet of her gains a +4 morale bonus on saving throws against fears effects. This ability functions while Spes is conscious, but not if she is dead.
    Last edited by LOTRfan; 2011-03-01 at 09:58 PM.
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    Default Re: More Dinosaurs than Isla Nublar (okay, not really, PEACH)

    I'm sticking with 13 then, considering an Allosaurus really should be tougher to kill than a Dire Tiger.

    And Gargantuan may be correct, considering the 46-foot holotype was not fully grown and the partial jaw (which I presume is an adult) would be 52-59 feet long. I presume that 26 to 30 feet from nose to base of tail counts as Gargantuan.
    Last edited by Dire Moose; 2011-03-01 at 10:06 PM.
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    Default Re: More Dinosaurs than Isla Nublar (okay, not really, PEACH)

    I agree. Allosaurs should definitely be able to kill oversized house cats.

    One question: the plural form of Allosaurus (and, by extension, all dinosaurs in general), is it Allosaurs or Allosaurus. I've heard both used as a plural form, and, seeing as you actually study prehistoric creatures as a living, perhaps you can clear this up?
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  26. - Top - End - #236
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    Default Re: More Dinosaurs than Isla Nublar (okay, not really, PEACH)

    I've been off a few days, but it would appear you've been busy. Not bad.
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  27. - Top - End - #237
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    Default Re: More Dinosaurs than Isla Nublar (okay, not really, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dire Moose View Post
    I'm sticking with 13 then, considering an Allosaurus really should be tougher to kill than a Dire Tiger.

    And Gargantuan may be correct, considering the 46-foot holotype was not fully grown and the partial jaw (which I presume is an adult) would be 52-59 feet long. I presume that 26 to 30 feet from nose to base of tail counts as Gargantuan.
    Seems reasonable- a little shorter than the normal 32 ft minimum- but not everything follows that minimum anyway- some creatures are a little smaller than the normal minimum for their size.

    Even if none of the other theropods qualify- a fully grown adult Spinosaurus is justifiable.

    Quote Originally Posted by LOTRfan View Post
    I agree. Allosaurs should definitely be able to kill oversized house cats.

    One question: the plural form of Allosaurus (and, by extension, all dinosaurs in general), is it Allosaurs or Allosaurus. I've heard both used as a plural form, and, seeing as you actually study prehistoric creatures as a living, perhaps you can clear this up?
    On naming conventions- "allosaur" refers to all members of the allosaurid group- and is usually pluralized "allosaurs"

    When referring to an individual genus, it may be better not to pluralize.

    So we speak of "a herd of Triceratops" rather than "a herd of Triceratopses".

    but if we see a group of Saurophagnax, we might say "that's a group of allosaurs" (since they are members of the allosaurid group).
    Last edited by hamishspence; 2011-03-02 at 03:51 AM.
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  28. - Top - End - #238
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    Default Re: More Dinosaurs than Isla Nublar (okay, not really, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by LOTRfan View Post
    I agree. Allosaurs should definitely be able to kill oversized house cats.

    One question: the plural form of Allosaurus (and, by extension, all dinosaurs in general), is it Allosaurs or Allosaurus. I've heard both used as a plural form, and, seeing as you actually study prehistoric creatures as a living, perhaps you can clear this up?
    It's Allosaurus, but I usually just use Allosaurs to avoid confusion.
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  29. - Top - End - #239
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    Default Re: More Dinosaurs than Isla Nublar (okay, not really, PEACH)

    Okay, that's good to know.
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  30. - Top - End - #240
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    Default Re: More Dinosaurs than Isla Nublar (okay, not really, PEACH)

    I think I may be making Iguanodons next. Does anyone want me to do a particular species?
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