Need help with Pathfinder Builds

[Whexican]

Howdy all,

A buddy of mine wants to role a pathfinder game and I'm pretty new to the character creation for it. We are looking to make a 3 man party. The other 2 people are rolling a cleric and a ranger.

I'm not sure what I should role to help round out the group. I was thinking a sword and shield fighter or palay. The only limitations placed on us by the DM is that the race must be human or half0elf (to fit in with the story) and we can only create from the standard path finder set...so no advanced builds. It hink the campaign is only going to last 4 to 6 levels or so.

Some suggestions and even links to builds would be great. Thanks in advance.

[HunterOfJello]

I don't know Pathfinder as well as I do 3.5e, but I've heard good things about the Paladin class and that it got much better than it was in 3.5e. Barbarian's rage got a nasty nerf in pathfinder and they lost quite a bit of what was going for them in 3.5e. Fighters got some minor bonuses and are still a lackluster dipping class that becomes less and less useful as you continue on in levels.

From what I've read the tank classes (excluding ranger) go:
Paladin > Fighter > Barbarian

~

Rogues and Sorcerers are often spoken of highly in pathfinder core. If you were going much past level 5, then I would suggest a Dragon Disciple. A sorcerer/fighter gish going into that class can do very well.


Are you specifically looking for a Tank role character? The ranger and cleric should be able to handle that sort of thing if necessary. An additional spellcaster like a druid, sorc or wizard could help the party, not to mention a skillmonkey rogue doing all sorts of awesome stuff.

~

Treantmonk is one of the best handbook writers out there and he wrote several good Pathfinder Class Handbooks. There's one for Wizards, Bards, Rangers, Druids and Monks.

[Stephen_E]

If you are thinking of going Rogue take 1 level of Wizard - Diviner as well.
+1 to initive and always act in the surprise round, as well as getting 1st lev spells and use of Wizard Wands w/o UMD required.

Fighter Sword and Shield is VERY strong in PF, but doesn't really kick in til 6th level.

Stephen E

[Whexican]

I was actually interested in a wizard or sorc but thought that our party was too glass (easily damaged) to handle a caster.

If you guys think the cleric and ranger are enough, I would actually prefer a wizard or sorc. I hear wizard is pretty great from start to finish. Any suggestions on those builds??

[HunterOfJello]

Wizard. We can do wizard. Keep your trusty Treantmonk's Guide to Pathfinder Wizards: Being a God handy and you're in for some fun.

~
Race
Alright, well for a pathfinder wizard, Elves are king. You really need to go beg your DM to let you play the one last single Elf in the kingdom since there are somehow still a number of half-elves left gallavanting around. Other than Elves, the races of Human and Half-Elf are about evenly matched. For low levels I would go with Human for the bonus feat.

Humans and Half-Elves are very similar. They get the same ability bonus and the human +1 skill rank is about equal to the half-elf double favored class, so your choice is between:

1. A bonus feat
or
2. Low-Light Vision, +3 to one skill , count as human and elf (good for Arcane Archer), immunity to magic sleep, +2 vs. enchantments, and +2 Perception.

Human or Half-Elf, the choice is yours (but try to convince your DM to let you play an Elf, they're amazing).


Arcane Bond
Don't even consider a Bonded Object. You'll end up wanting some kind of familiar. Flying ones are usually popular, although at lower levels the +2 boost to one of your saving throws can be useful, or a nice bonus to bluff if you're that kind of wizard.

Hawk, Owl, Raven, Rat, Viper, Weasel, just pick one.

Arcane School

Conjuration is the best you can pick from here. The doubled summoning durations can be very nice at low levels and conjuration spells will be your best friend.

Stats

Your stat spread should be rather obvious. Your +2 bonus will go into Int.

Int>Dex>=Con>Cha>Str,Wis

Skills

Spellcraft is king.
Then come Knowledges, Lingustics, Perception, Escape Artist (for grapples), Fly.

Feats

You can grab Extend Spell to the duration of some of your spells, but that's the only metamagic I would invest in at low levels.

Toughness is great at level 1.
Improved Initiative will help you control the battlefield as fast as possible.

Once you're high enough you'll want an Improved Familiar, but that's not till at least 7th.

Augment Summoning is great for a conjurer, but requires Spell Focus (Conjuration) as a pre-req. If you are a summon loving wizard, then go for it.

Defensive Combat Training will boost your CMD by quite a bit. Spell Penetration will also be useful at higher levels.

~


So all in all. Something like this would be great:

Human or Half-Elf Wizard X

Arcane Bond: Familiar
Arcane School: Conjuration
Prohibited Schools: Divination (your cleric can handle most of these), Abjuration, and/or Enchantment (pick 2)

1: Improved Initiative
B(?): Toughness
3. Combat Casting (or Toughness if Elf)
5. ?????????
Wizard Bonus: Extend Spell
7. Improved Familiar

[grarrrg]

I was actually interested in a wizard or sorc but thought that our party was too glass (easily damaged) to handle a caster.

Easily damaged?
Just pointing some things out.
Rangers get d10 hit dice in Pathfinder, helps be less squishy.
Rangers also get a better advancing animal companion (you said 4-6 levels, if starting at level 1, then ignore this), and the companion can act as an extra body/meat shield.
Cleric is the go to healing class (as long as non-evil), so any damage can be easily patched up.

Also, the "4-role" party is Tank, Skills, 'heal' magic, 'attack' magic" (over simplifications, you all know what I mean).
If the Ranger is going melee, then he can cover Tank and Skills, and the Cleric covers Tank and 'heal' magic. Party is lacking 'attack' magic > Wiz/Sorc.

If the Ranger is Ranged, then yes, you probably do need a solid Tank. Depending on your point-buy or stat rolls go with Paladin or Barbarian (rage isn't "worse" just "different"). As an added bonus, the Paladin has gone from becoming a 4+ stat MAD down to a 3+ stat MAD.

I'd skip over Rogue, your Ranger should be able to handle most of you Skill needs (if Trapfinding is needed, then either you or him should feel free to dip Rogue1)

[Stephen_E]

Wizard. We can do wizard. Keep your trusty Treantmonk's Guide to Pathfinder Wizards: Being a God handy and you're in for some fun.

Skimed the guide and not particuly impressed to be honest.
Way to much "I know the way you should play and it's this, and every other way is stupid and you are tupid if you do it".

Arcane Bond
Don't even consider a Bonded Object. You'll end up wanting some kind of familiar. Flying ones are usually popular, although at lower levels the +2 boost to one of your saving throws can be useful, or a nice bonus to bluff if you're that kind of wizard.

Bonded Object vs Familiar depends very much on player and game style.

If you lose the bonded Object you are in trouble, but that's true about your spellbook as well. If you are playing with a DM who'll steal/destroy the Bonded Object of a player then he'll do it to your spellbook as well. Don't play a Wizard with this type of GM. Seriously Wizards are the easeist class out there for a GM to gimp if he wants to.

Advantages of a Bonded Object is -
1) 1 spontaneous spell per day on top of your normal spell casting. This can be of any level and is a godsend for the wizard who hasn't spent hours working out the perfect spell set for each day of the campaign.
2) Can enchant without having the feat. You have a amulet? Make it a Amulet of Deflection. Then with the aid of a friendly Druid make it a a amulet of Natural armour as well - 50% of market price to make, x50% for been a 2nd ability = 75% of market price. Keep adding those ability and worthless to anyone else. See above about GMs that steal bonded objects.

There are reasons for taking familiars which I won't go into because they are the same reason that any 3.x arcane player knows about.


Specalisation class. In a 3 player game I would recommend the Diviner. For the reasons named in the TreantMonks guide. Act in surprise round + 1/2 your level to init roll. In a 3 player campaign your ability to be protected is limited, which means you really can't afford to have the opposition have a surprise round of smacking you AND a normal round if they beat your inititive.

Stephen E

[Whexican]

All great posts and thanks for the help!

I'm working on the build now and I will post once I'm done. Thanks again!

[Whexican]

Here you guys go.

Take a look and let me know what you think. I'm not sure what to make my Prohibited schools in.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101106/PathfinderSheet-TJ.pdf

[Whexican]

Any Thoughts?

[subject42]

Any Thoughts?

I'm just seeing an empty character sheet.