Pathfinder: Druid vs Summoner-who does it better?

[randomhero00]

Exactly what the title says. It would seem like druid, considering they can still morph, and have full casting compared to the more limited summoner. Although the spells summoners do get are nice and their summmon is better than the animal companion.

What do you think? They can both be really focused around summoning and battlefield control. On paper it seems like the druid has a big lead, but has anyone more play test knowledge? I know druid wildshape got heavy nerfed and I haven't played the new version yet.

[Psyren]

Summoner is nice at what it does, but doesn't even come close to a Druid. Summoners do get Gate as an SLA, but still have to pay the costs, and Gate was severely nerfed in PF anyway.

[randomhero00]

Well remember wildshape was heavily nerfed. Is it even worth it anymore? To reliably enter melee as a druid I mean.

[Eldariel]

Well remember wildshape was heavily nerfed. Is it even worth it anymore? To reliably enter melee as a druid I mean.

If you have the stats. The single huge change is that now you can no longer have a Druid with dumped physicals to be competent in melee. You need at least some Str to get the job done.

[tyckspoon]

Well remember wildshape was heavily nerfed. Is it even worth it anymore? To reliably enter melee as a druid I mean.

If you have a sufficiently high point buy, yes, because you still get access to special movement modes and attack methods that normal melee classes have no real way of getting, like Burrow, Improved Grab, and Pounce with 4-6 natural attacks at a point where the 'real' fighter(/paladin/ranger/barbarian as desired) is maybe getting 3 attacks, if he went TWF or he can get a Haste effect. But you do need the ability scores to back it, so.. you can basically choose to be a gish-type, with lower caster score but enough physical scores to support combat-wildshaping, or a caster with a useful utility trick. Or if you get really good scores in 4 stats you can just be awesome all 'round like the 3.5 Druid we all know.

[Psyren]

Well remember wildshape was heavily nerfed. Is it even worth it anymore? To reliably enter melee as a druid I mean.

Wildshape is just the icing on the cake for druids. They still know every spell on their list and have spells above 6.

[Ashram]

With the correct choices and the ability to choose from 3.5 books, a summoner's eidolon can be rape in a can. Also somewhat allows a liberal interpretation of the rules, due to some of the eidolon abilities being less than well-worded.

[Psyren]

The Eidolon is indeed powerful, but an animal companion backed by 9ths is likely going to trump an Eidolon backed by 6ths.

Whose list do summoners pull from? I'm assuming the wizard list, but the PFSRD doesn't actually say.

[randomhero00]

With the correct choices and the ability to choose from 3.5 books, a summoner's eidolon can be rape in a can. Also somewhat allows a liberal interpretation of the rules, due to some of the eidolon abilities being less than well-worded.

huh? what would you pull from 3.5 for the eidolon? Its not like 3.5 has evolutions.

Whose list do summoners pull from? I'm assuming the wizard list, but the PFSRD doesn't actually say.

Special wizard list. They only go to 6th, but get things "earlier" like summon monster IX at 16.

[Psyren]

huh? what would you pull from 3.5 for the eidolon? Its not like 3.5 has evolutions.

They get feats, don't they? At least I think they do; I'm not a PF pro or anything...

[randomhero00]

They get feats, don't they? At least I think they do; I'm not a PF pro or anything...

not sure actually.

[JonRG]

Eidolon progression

They get feats plus evolution points.