Enlarge and Expand

[Lev]

Does enlarge person (sorc/wiz) stack with Expansion the psionic power?

If so, is it possible to add the +6 points and grow an additional size, changing you from a medium to a gargantuan creature?

[Keld Denar]

No. Multiple magical effects that change your size never stack.

[Urpriest]

However, if you managed to shrink the rest of the world instead...

[Lev]

No. Multiple magical effects that change your size never stack.

Psionic == Magical?

[Lhurgyof]

Psionic == Magical?

The "standard" D&D assumption is that Magic = Psionics, see Psionic/Magic Transparency in the XPH.

[SurlySeraph]

By default, psionics = magic.

[KillianHawkeye]

Psionic == Magical?

Did you think it was non-magical?

[Lev]

Did you think it was non-magical?

I assumed detect magic did not detect psionics, I assumed antimagic fiends did not negate psionics.

I assumed that magic, like incarnum or physical force worked on another principle altogether. Just like a sunburn from the radiation of the sun would not be blocked by antimagic I thought a combination of advanced alpha/beta/whatever focused brainwaves would not be.

[Tavar]

That's not the way it's normally presented. In fact, Incarnum too is blocked by the same things as standard magic.

I find it helpful to think of it as fuel for a car. Vancian is Gasoline. Psionics is electricity. Truenaming is air. The first two work pretty much the same, and you can stop the car in the same ways. But they need different things to operate, and there are differences between them.

[tyckspoon]

I assumed detect magic did not detect psionics, I assumed antimagic fiends did not negate psionics.

I assumed that magic, like incarnum or physical force worked on another principle altogether. Just like a sunburn from the radiation of the sun would not be blocked by antimagic I thought a combination of advanced alpha/beta/whatever focused brainwaves would not be.

Even if you treat them as different (it's generally not recommended, as it presents some balance issues when mixing them in the same world) Expansion states that it does not stack with other size-increasing effects. There is no qualifier of 'magical', 'psionic', or anything else in there- it just doesn't stack, period.

[Lev]

That's not the way it's normally presented. In fact, Incarnum too is blocked by the same things as standard magic.

I find it helpful to think of it as fuel for a car. Vancian is Gasoline. Psionics is electricity. Truenaming is air. The first two work pretty much the same, and you can stop the car in the same ways. But they need different things to operate, and there are differences between them.

Or we could say that arcane/divine is gas and psionics is butane, but an antimagic field is a vacuum and therefore doesn't let either burn?
I guess I always thought of antimagic like a weave-dampener and not like a vaccume for all energy thats not science related.

[Mastikator]

No but expansion can be augmented to increase size category by two.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/expansion.htm

You'd be four times as tall and 64 times as heavy. Lucky it doesn't count towards encumbrance (though it should).

[HunterOfJello]

Psionics and Magic are considered the same for combining, dispelling, and most other effects to preserve game balance. There is a rule variant called "Psionics is Different" that changes this, but that's up to a DM's discretion.

[BridgeCity]

No but expansion can be augmented to increase size category by two.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/expansion.htm

You'd be four times as tall and 64 times as heavy. Lucky it doesn't count towards encumbrance (though it should).

Im confused, so correct me if I've got this wrong. Are you saying that being bigger should effect you as though you were encumbered?

[HunterOfJello]

Im confused, so correct me if I've got this wrong. Are you saying that being bigger should effect you as though you were encumbered?

I think he meant that it's lucky because magic that makes you larger shouldn't make you encumbered, but mechanically it could.

Increasing 2 sizes increases your strength by 4, but you and your item's weight by 64, which could make you encumbered. (or something like that)

[Lev]

I think he meant that it's lucky because magic that makes you larger shouldn't make you encumbered, but mechanically it could.

Increasing 2 sizes increases your strength by 4, but you and your item's weight by 64, which could make you encumbered. (or something like that)

I would think you'd be able to carry much much more.

[Keld Denar]

Size increases encumberance. Small creatures can carry .75 what mediums can, and large can carry double. Huge can carry 4x as much.

Source

[zyborg]

Actually, it works quite similar in the real world. Hence why there are no giants.

[BridgeCity]

I think he meant that it's lucky because magic that makes you larger shouldn't make you encumbered, but mechanically it could.

Increasing 2 sizes increases your strength by 4, but you and your item's weight by 64, which could make you encumbered. (or something like that)

Ah yeah I get you. I thought they were trying to say it would be harder for you to move around given your new bulk, which of course would happen in the real world, but this is a magical effect in a magical world.

[Lev]

Actually, it works quite similar in the real world. Hence why there are no giants.

What's the difference between an ape and a lizard?

[Greenish]

What's the difference between an ape and a lizard?

The other one is not a mammal?

[Lev]

The other one is not a mammal?

I was making a dinosaur reference =]

[KillianHawkeye]

Well in the last King Kong movie, Kong beat 3 tyrannosauruses in a fight, so I think apes win.

[Cog]

What's the difference between an ape and a lizard?

The "lizards" evolved to that size over a ridiculously high number of generations, and were adapted to it.

If you suddenly made, say, a Velociraptor that big without changing anything else, it'd be just as dead as an ape you did that to.

[Greenish]

If you suddenly made, say, a Velociraptor that big without changing anything else, it'd be just as dead as an ape you did that to.

Perhaps a bad example, in that the theropod body plan was very scalable.

[Yuki Akuma]

Dinosaurs are/were birds, not reptiles. They have/had much lighter bodies than mammals.

[Greenish]

Dinosaurs are/were birds, not reptiles. They have/had much lighter bodies than mammals.

Reptiles aren't even a real taxonomic group (in modern phylogenetic taxonomy, at least).

Besides, dinosaurs aren't birds, birds are dinosaurs.

[Yuki Akuma]

x = y == y = x.

Basic mathematics.

[Greenish]

x = y == y = x.

Basic mathematics.

Not all dinosaurs are birds (just a specialized sub-group of theropods), but all birds are dinosaurs.

Don't you try to confuse me with your newfangled algemagibra-thingamajigs!

[Yuki Akuma]

Not all dinosaurs are birds (just a specialized sub-group of theropods), but all birds are dinosaurs.

Don't you try to confuse me with your newfangled algemagibra-thingamajigs!

(Psst: I'm being silly. I know some dinosaurs weren't birds.)