25 HD or less (3.5)

[Adamaro]

What is the nastiest monster with 25 HD or less that you can come up with? I need this thing as a standard summon for Phanes' ability Summon Past Time Duplicate (Sp) and since it is for me as a DM a bit hard to play high lvl PC, I'd like to have a nasty monster handy. Something with lots of SoD abilities maybe.

[dsmiles]

Why not get copies of the character sheets and advance them to level 25? Make the PCs fight themselves, that'll throw 'em for a loop.

[hamishspence]

In core? Solars are a pretty good candidate:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/angel.htm#angelSolar

Even out of core, there's probably not that much in the way of monsters (rather than NPCs) for competition.

[Adamaro]

dsmiles@
First of all, phane needed to already met these summons. But lets say it already did. Do you have any idea how hard is it to run FOUR lvl 18 characters at a same time?

@hamishspence
Yeah, thought so ...

[Jack_Simth]

In core? Solars are a pretty good candidate:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/angel.htm#angelSolar

Even out of core, there's probably not that much in the way of monsters (rather than NPCs) for competition.

You can always add templates. A plain jane Solar has trouble when facing a Pseudonatural Phrenic Half-Fiend Solar.

[hamishspence]

Half-fiend can't be added to a creature of Good alignment- and the other templates don't change the base alignment of the solar.

That said, WoTC has had "Things That Cannot Be" articles, where the rules were broken because it made sense in a fluff context.

Also- Paragon Creature is another good template for a creature to boost power without boosting Hit Dice.

[Jack_Simth]

Half-fiend can't be added to a creature of Good alignment- and the other templates don't change the base alignment of the solar.

"Always" in D&D still allows for 'unique circumstances' exceptions. So you apply it to a Neutral-Aligned Solar, and you're set.

[Wabbajack]

You could have a look at the Dread Linnorm from MMII.

[hamishspence]

"Always" in D&D still allows for 'unique circumstances' exceptions. So you apply it to a Neutral-Aligned Solar, and you're set.

True. Still, "half-fiend celestial" or possibly vice versa, was on the list of exotic, slightly rule-breaking uses of templates:

Creatures that Cannot Be
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/eo/20060407a

Creatures that Cannot Be II
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/eo/20070401a

[LordBlades]

another strong candidate is Black Ethergaunt(casts as a Wizard 17). Eventually half-fiend phrenic black ethergaunt.

[Last Laugh]

another strong candidate is Black Ethergaunt(casts as a Wizard 17). Eventually half-fiend phrenic black ethergaunt.

Which is from Fiend Folio and can take people as thralls

[dspeyer]

Check out the Dread Linnorm from MMII. A CR25, 20hd, two-headed dragon with str 40, 18th level sorceror casting and bite attacks that deal negative levels. You can even tack on 5 levels of Abjurant Champion (and take epic spellcasting, for true cheese).

[Runestar]

Some of the demon lord aspects in fiendish codex are below 25 HD.

[Otodetu]

Not to sound judging, but if a dm finds it challenging to create and run npc's of a certain level then he\she should stay away from running games of that level or consider stopping\retarding levelling until he\she feel comfortable again.

I spend many hours when I have free time designing npc's and monsters, and have been doing so for many years, and I still prefer to create and run npc's of no level higher than 14. (this is partly because I feel the system tend to break down when you pass level 10.)

It also helps to have knowledge of the tier system and how to create npc's that posses the listed level of power.

Being a dm is a job you should take seriously while still having fun.

[herrhauptmann]

What's the hit dice on the LeShay, the elves in Epic level handbook? I know their CR is a mid20s, but not sure of HD.

[Alleran]

What's the hit dice on the LeShay, the elves in Epic level handbook? I know their CR is a mid20s, but not sure of HD.

50. No chance.

The Ha-Naga has 20 HD, and a slew of interesting and powerful abilities.

[Jack_Simth]

50. No chance.

What about a Simulacrum of a LeShay?

[Runestar]

Not to sound judging, but if a dm finds it challenging to create and run npc's of a certain level then he\she should stay away from running games of that level or consider stopping\retarding levelling until he\she feel comfortable again.

I would say the challenge is not running them, but running several of them in addition to the phane. That's 5 monsters the DM has to juggle simultaneously, each of which has their own special abilities to keep track of.

For myself, I am most comfortable juggling 2-3 npc max at any one time, and that's provided they don't come with a gamut of abilities (fiends and casters being most notorious).

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Paragon Titan, caster level 35 Word of Chaos.

Edit: It also gets Maze, Chain Lightning, Meteor Swarm, Summon Nature's Ally IX, and Hold Monster, each of which gain a +13 Insight bonus to any numerical effect. Maze can be a DC 33 Intelligence check to escape or be trapped for 10 minutes. Chain Lightning can get a +13 Insight bonus to the number of dice of damage, or a +13 Insight bonus to each die roll for damage (so 20d6+260 damage). Meteor Swarm can get +13 meteors, so it will fire seventeen meteors instead of four. Summon Nature's Ally IX can get +13 monsters summoned, so one casting gets fourteen elder elementals. Hold Monster can get +13 to the maximum number of targets. Just silly.