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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Fitz10019's Avatar

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    Default the area of Silence, save or no

    There is a save against Silence for an unwilling creature, an attended object, or a magic item that emits sound; will negates. Unattended objects get no save. I've played in groups that say bringing a silenced rock near a spellcaster silences the spellcaster, no save. I've heard of some DMs ruling that any unwilling creature in a silenced area gets a chance at the saving throw.

    I'd like to hear how Playgrounders play it, not just RAW but actual play. I have a WhisperGnome in my group, so it's going to come up a lot as she tackles spellcasters.

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    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: the area of Silence, save or no

    Quote Originally Posted by Fitz10019 View Post
    I'd like to hear how Playgrounders play it, not just RAW but actual play.
    It never came up much, but if I recall, when I played D&D, the initial casting had a save, but standing in the area did not have a save. It only has a 20ft radius, so 'walking briskly away' was typically the preferred defense for spellcasters.

    If you could *get* to a spellcaster, effectively grapple him, and he didn't have a defense against the silence OR the grapple, then it was deemed perfectly acceptable for him to be gratuitously owned without a saving throw.

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    Frosty's Avatar

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    Default Re: the area of Silence, save or no

    No save. Cast the spell on the Barbarian. Have the Barbarian move up to the caster and ready an action to follow the caster. You now have a gimped enemy caster.

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    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: the area of Silence, save or no

    Targeted version grants a save, area does not. Since you can generally move away from the area, it's quite fair, and yet useful.
    Campaign Journal: Uncovering the Lost World - A Player's Diary in Low-Magic D&D (Latest Update: 8.3.2014)
    Being Bane: A Guide to Barbarians Cracking Small Men - Ever Been Angry?! Then this is for you!
    SRD Averages - An aggregation of all the key stats of all the monster entries on SRD arranged by CR.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: the area of Silence, save or no

    My understanding has always been that the saving throw only applied if the silence spell is cast on the caster (or any creature) itself but that silence on unattended objects and areas couldn't be saved against, you have to avoid it or dispel it.

    So throwing a pebble with silence on it near to the caster would not force a save. There was some confusion when I brought it up in my group about whether an arrow with silence cast on it, shot at a caster would work. The arrow is destroyed so does that mean the silence effect is destroyed? There is also no mechanic to account for removing an arrowhead from a wound if hit although healing would presumably do so.
    Last edited by Ormur; 2010-11-15 at 03:39 PM.

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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: the area of Silence, save or no

    A Silence spell doesn't allow a saving throw except when targeted at something that has the ability to save. Put it on a rock and bring it near a spellcaster and they've got several options:
    • Use spells without verbal components.
    • Use Silent Spell or Sudden Silent.
    • Back away from the area, and target Dispel Magic against Silence.
    • Back away from the area, and just stay away.
    • Do something other than spellcasting.
    Silence on a pebble is one of the few ways that stealthy types can use to be effective against spellcasters, and that still has many workarounds as I've outlined. Giving a saving throw past what's specified by RAW would just boost spellcaster power, and that's a very bad thing.
    Last edited by Curmudgeon; 2010-11-15 at 03:43 PM.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    ShriekingDrake's Avatar

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    Default Re: the area of Silence, save or no

    Quote Originally Posted by Fitz10019 View Post
    There is a save against Silence for an unwilling creature, an attended object, or a magic item that emits sound; will negates. Unattended objects get no save. I've played in groups that say bringing a silenced rock near a spellcaster silences the spellcaster, no save. I've heard of some DMs ruling that any unwilling creature in a silenced area gets a chance at the saving throw.

    I'd like to hear how Playgrounders play it, not just RAW but actual play. I have a WhisperGnome in my group, so it's going to come up a lot as she tackles spellcasters.
    No save where the target is an unattended item. The spellcaster can move out of the space, but she wouldn't get a save. I believe that's RAW. It is also how our groups have played it.

    We have a player who likes to have his characters use silence as follows: Cast silence on the door frame, so baddies in the next room won't hear the scuffle. Cast silence on the surfaces of the room, so the spellcasters can't cast spells. Cast silence on burr, which is then given to a rogue to place on the spellcaster's back during a sneak attack.

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    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: the area of Silence, save or no

    It's a great readied action to disrupt casting too; no save so it's basically guaranteed to succeed.
    Campaign Journal: Uncovering the Lost World - A Player's Diary in Low-Magic D&D (Latest Update: 8.3.2014)
    Being Bane: A Guide to Barbarians Cracking Small Men - Ever Been Angry?! Then this is for you!
    SRD Averages - An aggregation of all the key stats of all the monster entries on SRD arranged by CR.

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    Frosty's Avatar

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    Default Re: the area of Silence, save or no

    Yeah. Ready an action to cast Silence on a pebble near his feet or something.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Fitz10019's Avatar

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    Default Re: the area of Silence, save or no

    Thanks, gang!

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    Tyndmyr's Avatar

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    Default Re: the area of Silence, save or no

    Making silence have a save doesn't really make spellcasters more powerful. After all, silence is cast by casters.

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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: the area of Silence, save or no

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyndmyr View Post
    Making silence have a save doesn't really make spellcasters more powerful. After all, silence is cast by casters.
    I've found that more typically, Silence is triggered by Rogues via Use Magic Device.

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    GreataxeFighterGirl

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    Default Re: the area of Silence, save or no

    Yep. Rogues don't like having casters anywhere near their low Will saves.
    Last edited by Callista; 2010-11-16 at 05:21 AM.

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    Flumph

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    Default Re: the area of Silence, save or no

    Quote Originally Posted by Ormur View Post
    My understanding has always been that the saving throw only applied if the silence spell is cast on the caster (or any creature) itself but that silence on unattended objects and areas couldn't be saved against, you have to avoid it or dispel it.

    So throwing a pebble with silence on it near to the caster would not force a save. There was some confusion when I brought it up in my group about whether an arrow with silence cast on it, shot at a caster would work. The arrow is destroyed so does that mean the silence effect is destroyed? There is also no mechanic to account for removing an arrowhead from a wound if hit although healing would presumably do so.
    Use barbed arrows for that, they remain stuck in the target and deal 1d4+1 damage when removed, negated by a heal check or magic. So by RAW, they aren't destroyed on impact and remain stuck in the target

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    Troll in the Playground
     
    Daemon

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    Default Re: the area of Silence, save or no

    Silence is also a potent defense against powerful high-level spells such as Blasphemy, or other spells with the sonic descriptor. You don't want to give that Balor a save when he walks into your defensively-cast Silence spell (you've probably got bigger problems then anyway).

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    Frosty's Avatar

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    Default Re: the area of Silence, save or no

    Spell-like abilities don't care about components, so Silence doesn't hinder Balors. It lets them come up to you and full-attack you without you being able to cast any Non-Silent spells however.

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    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: the area of Silence, save or no

    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty View Post
    Spell-like abilities don't care about components, so Silence doesn't hinder Balors. It lets them come up to you and full-attack you without you being able to cast any Non-Silent spells however.
    It stops Blasphemy since its a [Sonic] effect.

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    Frosty's Avatar

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    Default Re: the area of Silence, save or no

    Quote Originally Posted by Chen View Post
    It stops Blasphemy since its a [Sonic] effect.
    Only some of its effects I believe.

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    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: the area of Silence, save or no

    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty View Post
    Only some of its effects I believe.
    True, though they're the effects you're generally worried about. The banishing effect rarely affects PCs.

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