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    Orc in the Playground
     
    Christopher K.'s Avatar

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    Default "Didn't think you'd be here on time, so we already ordered to stay."

    Hey everyone, lately I've been having trouble with two players in my gaming group - by no means are they "hardcore" gamers but they're generally good friends to be around and when they roleplay, hilarity always ensues. However, we always meet at Runza, a restaurant here in the mystical land of Nebraska, before we walk to my house for gaming and lately these two have ordered their meals to stay and insisted on eating there, despite knowing that we have a somewhat limited amount of time to play. If it weren't for the fact that we lose 30-40 minutes because of this every game night, I wouldn't mind so much but as is, they insist that our other group members order their meals to stay as well, which will almost certainly increase our waiting time when new group members join us when the amount of time we have to play is already severely limited. Does anybody have any suggestions as to how to decrease time spent waiting for people to eat before game night turns into simply a weekly meeting at Runza for dinner?
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    Orc in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: "Didn't think you'd be here on time, so we already ordered to stay."

    Have you tried talking to them about it? Being polite but stating your concerns can go a long way. You can also suggest that everyone start arriving at the restaurant an hour sooner, so you can have your game and eat your Runza too. As long as the choice to eat at Runza isn't reflective of a disinterest in the game, I feel like being upfront about it could solve the issue.

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    Default Re: "Didn't think you'd be here on time, so we already ordered to stay."

    There is always the option of checking with the restaurant staff and your group about playing at the restaurant. Maybe not ideal but still worth a thought.
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    Default Re: "Didn't think you'd be here on time, so we already ordered to stay."

    Quote Originally Posted by Sitzkrieg View Post
    As long as the choice to eat at Runza isn't reflective of a disinterest in the game,
    Okay, look, I don't know who else lives in Nebraska, so I'm just going to spill it out right here right now.

    Choosing to eat at a Runza is like, the closest thing you can get to choosing to live in Nebraska. The only things Nebraska has going for it is Runza and Valentino's, and Val's only counts if they still support the Grand Italian Buffet. After those, there is corn and football. That's it. Runza's our White Castle, more or less. Take it away, and Nebraska wouldn't even exist anymore. And I'm not talking about "Disappear in a puff of logic" nonexistence, I'm talking about, "would instantly disappear from any historical documentation" nonexistence.

    That said, is there a particular reason why they enjoy dining in? Is it just because they don't want to lug their take-out all the way to your home? Something to consider is that you might be able to get everybody's food ahead of time just rounded up at your home, with it's comfier chairs and more spacious tables.

    Gotta get out of Nebraska gotta get out of Nebraska gotta get out of Nebraska lemme out lemme out lemme out...
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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: "Didn't think you'd be here on time, so we already ordered to stay."

    Just don´t meet at Runza´s anymore? If gaming is scheduled for 17 o Clock, say "we meet at 17 o` clock at my House. If you happen to pass by a Runza´s bring me something along from it." Problem solved. They can go to runza´s at 16 o´ clock and be on time for the gaming session.

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    Default Re: "Didn't think you'd be here on time, so we already ordered to stay."

    It sounds like these players enjoy the "hang with my homeboys" element of gaming, more than the "pretend I'm a wizard" parts. Which there is nothing wrong with.

    Talk to them, and ask if it would be possible to schedule the meal earlier. Explain to them your concerns, and if it isn't possible to do dinner earlier, ask if they would be willing to get it to go.

    Our group generally meets for dinner somewhere before the game. As DM, I have a rough idea of how long the adventure will need. If I think it will go long, we skip dinner. Or conversely, if I know we'll be doing dinner that night, I plan a shorter adventure.
    Last edited by Crow; 2010-11-16 at 06:05 AM.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: "Didn't think you'd be here on time, so we already ordered to stay."

    if you want to be "subtle" but non-confrontational, I'd snag your waiter and tell them that you actually want the meals prepared to go for your table, regardless of who orders

    then you can go "oh look, we can just head there and get started early"

    talking to them is probably best...but...interesting is more important

    you can also just flat out order your food to go and go home and start the session without them

    so the new title of this thread is

    "Didn't think you'd be here on time, so we killed the dragon and looted its horde without you."

    they miss out on xp and loot and get the point this way
    Last edited by Rasman; 2010-11-16 at 06:09 AM.
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    Default Re: "Didn't think you'd be here on time, so we already ordered to stay."

    If it's 'your' game, hosted at your house then you have the casting vote. Just say to them that it's impacting the game. They can either arrive an hour earlier at the restaurant and eat prior to the game, or order 'to go'.

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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: "Didn't think you'd be here on time, so we already ordered to stay."

    I play at my house with 5 of my long time friends - its not a lot more than that - if we end up gaming so be it.

    But even us have discussed and agreed - On Thorsday we arrive by 7.45 - so we can start at 8. its important to be on the same page.

    So yeah, I echo what others have said and just talk about it, ask if the group can have a set time where everyone understands its 'game time'

    If thats 8.30 but everyone is understood to have needed to eaten so be it.

    Happy Rollin'

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: "Didn't think you'd be here on time, so we already ordered to stay."

    Quote Originally Posted by Grogmir View Post
    I play at my house with 5 of my long time friends - its not a lot more than that - if we end up gaming so be it.

    But even us have discussed and agreed - On Thorsday we arrive by 7.45 - so we can start at 8. its important to be on the same page.

    So yeah, I echo what others have said and just talk about it, ask if the group can have a set time where everyone understands its 'game time'

    If thats 8.30 but everyone is understood to have needed to eaten so be it.

    Happy Rollin'
    as...{{scrubbed}}...I actually agree...game time is game time...food time is food time...the twain shall never meet...unless someone brings food time to game time...in which case...I demand a slice and Bobby needs to make a Fort Save...you rolled a 7?...I get Bobby's slice too
    Last edited by Mark Hall; 2010-11-16 at 11:35 AM.
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    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: "Didn't think you'd be here on time, so we already ordered to stay."

    What used to happen, and what's changed? Did you all used to get food, but now they've started ordering it to stay instead of to go? Find out why they changed. That seems like a pretty serious jerk move, introducing a delay for no reason.

    Did you used to just meet up without getting food? Well, if they're hungry and need to eat, ask them to either a) do it earlier or b) get their food to go.

    If your thread title is something they've actually said, it sounds like they may either genuinely not expect you guys on time, or be annoyed about past delays and be using this as a way to (ineffectively) make their dissatisfaction known. If the group have been bad about keeping appointments before, address that. Just do it out in the open, not dancing around one another.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasman View Post
    if you want to be "subtle" but non-confrontational, I'd snag your waiter and tell them that you actually want the meals prepared to go for your table, regardless of who orders

    then you can go "oh look, we can just head there and get started early"
    That's not "subtle but non-confrontational", that's "passive-aggressive and obnoxious". It's their food and their order. Don't change their order on them. I would be seriously pissed if someone did that to me. It's controlling and disrespectful in a way I would find much worse than anything "confrontational" (i.e. actually telling them you have a problem with what they're doing).

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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: "Didn't think you'd be here on time, so we already ordered to stay."

    Could figure out a usual order and just reimburse the person who picks up the to-go stuff when you all meet up to play.

    Or start eating dinner before you all get together to play.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: "Didn't think you'd be here on time, so we already ordered to stay."

    Quote Originally Posted by kamikasei View Post
    That's not "subtle but non-confrontational", that's "passive-aggressive and obnoxious". It's their food and their order. Don't change their order on them. I would be seriously pissed if someone did that to me. It's controlling and disrespectful in a way I would find much worse than anything "confrontational" (i.e. actually telling them you have a problem with what they're doing).
    {{scrubbed}}

    maybe it is passive aggressive, but it gets a point across...in my line of work, telling people doesn't work...the general public isn't smart enough to understand words or directions, but make something affect them in an adverse way and they get the picture
    Last edited by Mark Hall; 2010-11-16 at 11:40 AM.
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    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: "Didn't think you'd be here on time, so we already ordered to stay."

    Quote Originally Posted by Rasman View Post
    you did...actually read everything I said...right?
    What part do you consider relevant here?
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasman View Post
    maybe it is passive aggressive, but it gets a point across...in my line of work, telling people doesn't work...the general public isn't smart enough to understand words or directions, but make something affect them in an adverse way and they get the picture
    I have no idea what your line of work is, but I would hope that you have more respect for your friends than you express above for "the general public".

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: "Didn't think you'd be here on time, so we already ordered to stay."

    Sorry about the grammar Rasman - posting on breaking time at work - really need to proof read now and then!

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: "Didn't think you'd be here on time, so we already ordered to stay."

    The solution is obvious: "We meet at my house at 17:00."

    And if they still have lunch starting at five and arrive to your house 40 minutes late, it's perfectly within your rights to institute a new policy: "If you're more than 20 minutes late without calling ahead with a good excuse - and restaurant is not a good excuse -, you'll lose X experiece points for every ten minutes late."
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    Chimera

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    Default Re: "Didn't think you'd be here on time, so we already ordered to stay."

    Tell them to come 1 hour earlier than when you plan to start the session?

    So when they do turn up 1 hour late, they are actually on time.

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    Default Re: "Didn't think you'd be here on time, so we already ordered to stay."

    Quote Originally Posted by kamikasei View Post
    What part do you consider relevant here?
    probably the "talking to them is probably best" part and the parts residing after them

    Quote Originally Posted by kamikasei View Post
    I have no idea what your line of work is, but I would hope that you have more respect for your friends than you express above for "the general public".
    of course I don't, they wouldn't be friends then

    it would be boring to have uptight friends like that

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    Quote Originally Posted by Runestar View Post
    Tell them to come 1 hour earlier than when you plan to start the session?

    So when they do turn up 1 hour late, they are actually on time.
    My family does that with my mother EVERY holiday we don't host. It doesn't work.
    Last edited by Rasman; 2010-11-16 at 08:38 AM.
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    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: "Didn't think you'd be here on time, so we already ordered to stay."

    Quote Originally Posted by Rasman View Post
    probably the "talking to them is probably best" part and the parts residing after them
    Right. So you say "do this if you want to be subtle and non-confrontational. But a different approach would be better." I say "that first thing isn't subtle and non-confrontational, it's passive-aggressive and obnoxious". The later suggestion doesn't change the nature of the earlier.

    And hey, thanks for characterizing an expectation of basic respect as "uptight". You might note that I'm not saying the friends here don't appear to be behaving badly, but that behaving badly in turn is not the best response.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasman View Post
    My family does that with my mother EVERY holiday we don't host. It doesn't work.
    Why would you expect it to? If someone is used to you lying to them, they'll compensate for the lie. It won't change their behaviour (at least, not directly or in the way you want).
    Last edited by kamikasei; 2010-11-16 at 08:45 AM.

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    Default Re: "Didn't think you'd be here on time, so we already ordered to stay."

    Quote Originally Posted by Rasman View Post
    if you want to be "subtle" but non-confrontational, I'd snag your waiter and tell them that you actually want the meals prepared to go for your table, regardless of who orders

    then you can go "oh look, we can just head there and get started early"
    The waiter's going to love that. "I'm too cowardly to simply talk to my friends, so I'd like you to pretend that you screwed up their order."

    (And yes, I'm aware that you then went on to say "talking to them is probably best...but...interesting is more important", though I'm not quite sure what that means...)

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    Default Re: "Didn't think you'd be here on time, so we already ordered to stay."

    Quote Originally Posted by kamikasei View Post
    Right. So you say "do this if you want to be subtle and non-confrontational. But a different approach would be better." I say "that first thing isn't subtle and non-confrontational, it's passive-aggressive and obnoxious". The later suggestion doesn't change the nature of the earlier.

    And hey, thanks for characterizing an expectation of basic respect as "uptight". You might note that I'm not saying the friends here don't appear to be behaving badly, but that behaving badly in turn is not the best response.
    it denotes that I also express the "PC" view point and it's validness, but being PC can easily make you a PO from finishing the curve.

    My logic probably comes from a different teaching style. I don't believe people learn as well just from reading a book or listening to a lecture. The traditional classroom is dead due to the era of kids who crave interaction due to growing up in the Video Game Age. Thus I feel they learn better from an adverse response, rather than a "hey, don't do that" because "hey, don't do that" gets ignored very easily. Look at it in respect to the "The Stove is Hot" scenario of learning.

    As a child, you are told to NOT touch the stove because it is hot and it will burn you. Yet being told in a nice, calm manner, tends to yield "I wanna see how hot it is" or "It's ok if I just get REALLLLY close and don't actually touch it", i.e. a child misbehaving. Eventually what happens is that the child "accidentally" touches the stove and burns themselves, causing them pain and learning the harsh way that the stove is hot and I shouldn't touch it.

    This seems to be a similar situation, thus why I also suggested, but it got lost in oversight

    you can also just flat out order your food to go and go home and start the session without them

    so the new title of this thread is

    "Didn't think you'd be here on time, so we killed the dragon and looted its horde without you."

    they miss out on xp and loot and get the point this way
    thus the "children" touch the stove and get burned by missing out on Loot and XP

    Quote Originally Posted by kamikasei View Post
    Why would you expect it to? If someone is used to you lying to them, they'll compensate for the lie. It won't change their behaviour (at least, not directly or in the way you want).
    she actually doesn't know...

    ...it's like...the family secret...

    Quote Originally Posted by mucat View Post
    The waiter's going to love that. "I'm too cowardly to simply talk to my friends, so I'd like you to pretend that you screwed up their order."

    (And yes, I'm aware that you then went on to say "talking to them is probably best...but...interesting is more important", though I'm not quite sure what that means...)
    I'm too tired to really rationalize much at this point, but I think I meant something more along the lines of "interesting is more entertaining" you get the amusement and they get the point and you get to the session on time

    and the waiter/waitress WOULD love it if you tipped them for it and they don't have to lie

    I wouldn't really call it cowardly, just indirect

    as much fun as it is defending myself in this semi-coherent state, I'm going to sleep...I'll argue more in 8 hoursish
    Last edited by Rasman; 2010-11-16 at 10:07 AM.
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    Default Re: "Didn't think you'd be here on time, so we already ordered to stay."

    Choices

    (1) Everyone eats at Runza
    Make dinner part of the evening. Since it seems like at least two members enjoy this social aspect, perhaps it would be better to formally make it so that the evening becomes "Dinner and Gaming" rather than just "Gaming."

    To speed up dinner, you can have everyone pick a dish beforehand and then call in the order at the restuarant. If y'all are regulars, you probably can say "we'd like a table for 5 at 7 PM. Here's our orders and we'd like them ready to eat at 7:10 PM." Call it in early enough and they'll probably be happy to accomodate. If someone is late to dinner they can wrap their stuff up to-go.

    (2) Nobody eats at Runza
    Stop meeting there. The worst implication is that your buddies are trying to hijack the evening for some reason - more likely, they just like having a relaxing meal rather than trying to eat & game at the same time. But, if you don't want to waste time with a full meal you'll have to keep people from meeting at Runza entirely.

    Like above, place everyone's order in advance, but make it to-go (or delivery). If to-go, have one player pick it up and start gaming once he returns. If your problem players are still late to the game, treat them like any other chronically late players.
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    Default Re: "Didn't think you'd be here on time, so we already ordered to stay."

    Eh, Runza isn't exactly a formal restaurant setting. Think a lot like a localized McDonalds(except with edible food ), as in I can't call in to place an order or reserve a table, and since we play on Saturdays, generally we need to get going as soon as we get our food or the clown will eat me two members I'm mentioning here will sit down and start eating with the crowd that always shows up at that time, even if I say that we need to get going or we'll have too little time for gaming. I think I am going to have to go with the suggestion of just asking them to pick up food for the rest of us since they're the only ones whose route passes directly by Runza anyhow.

    As sneaky and right-up-my-alley as asking whoever's preparing the food to make the order to go would be, I can't because messing with someone's order is something I really would rather not do if only because if I can do that, who's to say someone else won't mess with MY order? [/paranoia]

    The other option to just start without them seems about as low to me as them starting to eat for the exact same reason, and I'd really rather not respond in kind.

    One problem to mention here is that the thread title is an actual quote, even though the rest of us have only been late once, and that was the time that these two tried to mess with the schedule.
    Last edited by Christopher K.; 2010-11-16 at 10:42 AM.
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    Default Re: "Didn't think you'd be here on time, so we already ordered to stay."

    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher K. View Post
    I think I am going to have to go with the suggestion of just asking them to pick up food for the rest of us since they're the only ones whose route passes directly by Runza anyhow.
    Seems about right, provided (1) you're always home on time (or can call them to let them know when you're late) and (2) they don't stop and eat on their own even without the above excuse.

    In any case, this seems like the best solution. Remember too that "starting without them" is not "sneaky" if you say "hey, we're starting at 7 pm. Don't be late."
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    Default Re: "Didn't think you'd be here on time, so we already ordered to stay."

    I am always home on time unless something serious happens, and that usually means that game night is canceled well in advance. Thanks for the suggestions, everyone!
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: "Didn't think you'd be here on time, so we already ordered to stay."

    Quote Originally Posted by Rasman View Post
    As a child, you are told to NOT touch the stove because it is hot and it will burn you. Yet being told in a nice, calm manner, tends to yield "I wanna see how hot it is" or "It's ok if I just get REALLLLY close and don't actually touch it", i.e. a child misbehaving. Eventually what happens is that the child "accidentally" touches the stove and burns themselves, causing them pain and learning the harsh way that the stove is hot and I shouldn't touch it.

    This seems to be a similar situation, thus why I also suggested, but it got lost in oversight
    Actually for me its not a similar situation at all.

    Children (and we're usually talking about children about 2-3 years old when it comes to stove examples) simply don't have the mental capacity to understand everything you say. Hot=pain is something they have to learn first, have to make their own experiences with. However I hope you'd assume that people of 15 years or older that you're gaming with actually understand when you tell them "dude, what you do is not cool".

    Also to come back to your stove example, changing their order behind their back is more like "Hey, my child is too stupid to understand the stove is hot when I tell him, so I'm gonna grab him and put his hand on the hot stove, so he never does it again".

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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morquard View Post
    Actually for me its not a similar situation at all.

    Children (and we're usually talking about children about 2-3 years old when it comes to stove examples) simply don't have the mental capacity to understand everything you say. Hot=pain is something they have to learn first, have to make their own experiences with. However I hope you'd assume that people of 15 years or older that you're gaming with actually understand when you tell them "dude, what you do is not cool".

    Also to come back to your stove example, changing their order behind their back is more like "Hey, my child is too stupid to understand the stove is hot when I tell him, so I'm gonna grab him and put his hand on the hot stove, so he never does it again".
    I got this mental image of a deranged parent with colored concentric circle eyes cackling with glee as they yanked someone's hand onto the stove. "That'll learn you!"

    My mind is very bad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AstralFire View Post
    My mind is very bad.
    The only other explanation is that you had a very bad childhood.
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    Default Re: "Didn't think you'd be here on time, so we already ordered to stay."

    Reminds me of a friend's parenting and gaming philosophy.

    "Tutorial level? You want someone to hold your hand when you get started? When you were a kid, did your mommy and daddy help you cross the street with all the big scary cars and trucks? NO, they push you into the street and you're supposed to learn your lesson."
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaidu View Post
    Wait, but, how would they - what would they - you, sir, have just destroyed my mind.
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    Default Re: "Didn't think you'd be here on time, so we already ordered to stay."

    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher K. View Post
    Reminds me of a friend's parenting and gaming philosophy.

    "Tutorial level? You want someone to hold your hand when you get started? When you were a kid, did your mommy and daddy help you cross the street with all the big scary cars and trucks? NO, they push you into the street and you're supposed to learn your lesson."
    That was Dad's parenting style. Learning to swim? Getting kicked into the pool and expected to figure it out. So yeah, been there, done that. Less fun than previously indicated.

    All that I say applies only to myself. You author your own actions and choices. I cannot and will not be responsible for you, nor are you for me, regardless of situation or circumstance.

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