Unarmed Sword sage - worth it?

[BIGMamaSloth]

basically the title. for anyone who doesn't know it s Sword Sage variant that loses it armor proficiency but gains monks unarmed strike progression.

Just wanted to know you people's opinion compared to regular sword sage.

[Psyren]

I'm not sure how it compares to the regular swordsage, but I love it because using Setting Sun with any other class seems silly.

[mootoall]

If you want to play a monk, play an unarmed swordsage. If you want to be awesome, play an armed swordsage.

[Urpriest]

They're pretty cool. They still have many of the problems of being unarmed (difficulty with DR and nifty weapon enchants, etc.) but they're not unfeasible. Note that they still get their AC bonus in light armor (and arguably only in light armor) so if you gain proficiency somewhere else you can still wear armor.

[Psyren]

Note that they still get their AC bonus in light armor (and arguably only in light armor)

Poor editing FTL

[FMArthur]

That a Monk's main class features can be traded onto another class for its basic weapon and armor proficiencies and still have dubious tactical value is a startling indictment of the monk class in general. Maybe this option should be allowed for any class that gets martial weapon and armor proficiency and we can throw away Monks altogether. I think I found a new houserule.

[Psyren]

That a Monk's main class features can be traded onto another class for its basic weapon and armor proficiencies and still have dubious tactical value is a startling indictment of the monk class in general. Maybe this option should be allowed for any class that gets martial weapon and armor proficiency and we can throw away Monks altogether. I think I found a new houserule.

That's essentially what Tashalatora does for psionic classes... so yeah.

[Caphi]

That a Monk's main class features can be traded onto another class for its basic weapon and armor proficiencies and still have dubious tactical value is a startling indictment of the monk class in general.

While this is true, the reason Superior Unarmed Strike gets grafted onto swordsage and psychic warrior is because their real class features can actually go well with fists.

[J.Gellert]

That a Monk's main class features can be traded onto another class for its basic weapon and armor proficiencies and still have dubious tactical value is a startling indictment of the monk class in general. Maybe this option should be allowed for any class that gets martial weapon and armor proficiency and we can throw away Monks altogether. I think I found a new houserule.

This houserule is a good houserule.

[Coidzor]

Compared with regular swordsage with no other basis for judgment, no. If you have any kind of desire to be an awesome unarmed fighter, then, yes.

It entirely depends upon your desires.

Now, whether it's worth it compared with Tashalatoran Psion/Ardent/Psychic Warrior... *shrug*

[true_shinken]

Talashatoran Ardent > Unarmed Swordsage, IMHO.

[Psyren]

Talashatoran Ardent > Unarmed Swordsage, IMHO.

Hell, even a Tashalatora Psywar can give a US a run for his money, never mind the Ardent.

The most important thing though is that they can all three beat the tar out of the monk

[true_shinken]

The most important thing though is that they can all three beat the tar out of the monk

But then, who can't?
Monk is the bullied kid out of 3.5 base classes.

[Mongoose87]

But then, who can't?

The majority of Truenamers.

[true_shinken]

The majority of Truenamers.

Depends on level. At 1st, Skill Focus and Int 18 allows for Truespeak +11 vs DC 16 for level apropriate targets.

[Psyren]

The majority of Truenamers.

Truenamers actually have a good shot against monks (UMD as a class skill)

[Keld Denar]

But monks can buy crossclass ranks in UMD and pump Cha! If one gets ahold of a partially charged wand, look out!

One thing it does bring out is that it makes Snap Kick a worthwhile investment. If you can pump your UAS damage high enough, tacking it on top of your normal strike damage is pretty sexy.

[AstralFire]

It's weaker than armed, but not enough to affect your fun.

[BIGMamaSloth]

thank you for the help, I have contemplated the awsomeness of shouting:

FIVE SHADOW CREEPING ICE ENERVATION STRIKE!!!!"

And then punching someone right through the heart

and it appears to me to outweigh any amount of comparitive underpoweredness.

[AstralFire]

That's the proper spirit of D&D.

[Keld Denar]

KALI MA!!!!!!!!

[AstralFire]

Psht. Has nothing on the Falcon Punch.

[Tvtyrant]

I was trying to make an Unarmed Swordsage/wizard/Initiate of the SevenFold Veil/Jade Phoenix Knight who punches people and then stands behind his veils, but I discovered something: They do not in fact get an AMF veil. I always though one of their veils was AMF but apparently not.

[true_shinken]

thank you for the help, I have contemplated the awsomeness of shouting:

FIVE SHADOW CREEPING ICE ENERVATION STRIKE!!!!"

And then punching someone right through the heart

and it appears to me to outweigh any amount of comparitive underpoweredness.

This is true wisdom.

[JaronK]

Unarmed Swordsage is a great trade to make, especially if you then just dip any class with armor proficiency. Consider Rogue 1/Rokugan Ninja 1/Unarmed Swordsage 18 as a great ninja, for example.

JaronK

[Coidzor]

Get another unarmed swordsage and a wizard for friends. Get contingent planeshifts on your party and anyone else you like. Do this.* Best way to end a campaign/layer of the Abyss ever.

*only works in universes governed by rule of cool.

[Leon]

If you want to play a monk, play an unarmed swordsage. If you want to be awesome, play an armed swordsage.

If you want to play a Monk then play a Monk.
If you want to play an Unarmed Combatant then this is a decent option.

[Endarire]

If you have access to light armor with no armor check penalties (leather armor, masterwork studded leather, or a mithril chain shirt), you lose nothing by going Unarmed Swordsage.

[true_shinken]

If you have access to light armor with no armor check penalties (leather armor, masterwork studded leather, or a mithril chain shirt), you lose nothing by going Unarmed Swordsage.

CustServ and teh Sage already said RAI was it to keep Wisdom to AC even without armor anyway.

[Aotrs Commander]

When one of my players did this, we altered the Wis AC bonus to work like Monk's, unarmed. And the character did fine. (Hell, with one level of Shadow Sun Ninja, they practiucally snapped the module in half in partnership with the Dread Necromancer. Excepting the fact the Crusader had already done it by having level-appropriate armour and shield...)