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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    Default [Pathfinder Society] Clericzilla

    I'd like to build a Pathfinder Society legal Cleric. I've been thinking about playing a mobile sword-and-board character (with a longsword or rapier and buckler, inspired by the Rotelleros of late 15th-16th century Spain), if I can find a way to make it effective within the rules. I think this means I'd have to play an Elf in order to get the weapon proficiencies.

    Can this concept be optimized? What feats, domains, and deity should I choose? As far as stats go, they use the Pathfinder 20 point buy, and I need a Wisdom of at least 15 (since the level cap is 12) - would it benefit me to have it be higher? Or is 15 enough?
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    Default Re: [Pathfinder Society] Clericzilla

    To play a real cleric tank, going the dwarf route would be your best bet. They get bonuses to wisdom and consitution along with proficiency with the Dwarven Waraxe battleaxe, heavy pick, and warhammer.


    If you want to be a mobile swashbuckler cleric, then you could go Elf or Human with your feat going towards one of the Martial Weapon Proficiencies. Elf has some nice bonuses, but the -2 Con is harsh and the ability bonuses won't be very useful. Human on the other hand can give you +2 Wis which would be excellent for boosting spell DCs and spells per day.
    Last edited by HunterOfJello; 2010-11-17 at 05:16 PM.

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    Default Re: [Pathfinder Society] Clericzilla

    Actually, Pathfinder dwarves are not proficient in the dwarven waraxe ... they just treat them as a martial weapon.

    Dwarves are proficient with battleaxes, heavy picks, and warhammers, and treat any weapon with the word “dwarven” in its name as a martial weapon.
    And a Pathfinder cleric are only proficient with simple weapons. Bummer, because I wanted my cleric to wield a dwarven waraxe.

    Dizlag

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    Default Re: [Pathfinder Society] Clericzilla

    Quote Originally Posted by Dizlag View Post
    Actually, Pathfinder dwarves are not proficient in the dwarven waraxe ... they just treat them as a martial weapon.
    Ohp. I never noticed that. I stand corrected!

    Well, at least then get battleaxes, heavy picks, and warhammers. That's better than just using a morningstar all the time. (I've always loved having a nice pick handy for coup de graces.)
    Last edited by HunterOfJello; 2010-11-17 at 05:18 PM.

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    Default Re: [Pathfinder Society] Clericzilla

    I'd have a look at the Holy Vindicator from the APG, and dip mobile fighter to get into it - if you want to be a mobile character, the travel domain is also a must.

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    Default Re: [Pathfinder Society] Clericzilla

    You could go swashbuckler-y with a cleric if you pick the right domains I think. Travel and Liberation would both work pretty well, or Feather (Animal subdomain) if you want to fly. Going Elf wouldn't hurt too much; Int and Dex will still be helpful to get you skill points and some AC. Just buy up your wis to 16 with the point buy, dump Str and get weapon finesse. You won't be super-damaging in melee, even with your buff spells on, but you'll still be a cleric and able to help out the party when needed.

    You can have these stats at level one with a 20-pt buy (after racial mods):
    STR 8
    DEX 14
    CON 12
    INT 12
    WIS 17
    CHA 12
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    Default Re: [Pathfinder Society] Clericzilla

    Quote Originally Posted by Rixx View Post
    I'd have a look at the Holy Vindicator from the APG, and dip mobile fighter to get into it - if you want to be a mobile character, the travel domain is also a must.
    I'm not sure if the Holy Vindicator is really what I'm looking for, both fluff-wise and mechanically. It might be worth a dip for Vindicator's shield and Martial Weapon Proficiency, but I don't see the rest of its abilities as beneficial to my character. Also, I don't think Travel Domain Devotion is available in Pathfinder Society play (being a 3.5 feat).

    Quote Originally Posted by Grynning View Post
    You could go swashbuckler-y with a cleric if you pick the right domains I think. Travel and Liberation would both work pretty well, or Feather (Animal subdomain) if you want to fly. Going Elf wouldn't hurt too much; Int and Dex will still be helpful to get you skill points and some AC. Just buy up your wis to 16 with the point buy, dump Str and get weapon finesse. You won't be super-damaging in melee, even with your buff spells on, but you'll still be a cleric and able to help out the party when needed.

    You can have these stats at level one with a 20-pt buy (after racial mods):
    STR 8
    DEX 14
    CON 12
    INT 12
    WIS 17
    CHA 12
    I'm wary of dumping strength because I did intend for this character to be a damage dealer. Why buy wisdom up to 17 at the get go, if I'm only ever going to get 6th level spells? Especially since I plan to use my spells to buff myself and my allies, so I don't really have to worry about save DCs.

    Edit: I guess I should clarify what exactly I'm looking for. I want to be a Divine Gish, using my spells to buff myself and become something of a monster in combat. I want to go sword and board for flavor reasons, and would be open to changing that if need be. And without Travel Domain I doubt I'll be able to work in the mobility I'd envisioned, so that isn't necessary.
    Last edited by Kalaska'Agathas; 2010-11-17 at 06:33 PM.
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    Default Re: [Pathfinder Society] Clericzilla

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalaska'Agathas View Post
    I'm not sure if the Holy Vindicator is really what I'm looking for, both fluff-wise and mechanically. It might be worth a dip for Vindicator's shield and Martial Weapon Proficiency, but I don't see the rest of its abilities as beneficial to my character. Also, I don't think Travel Domain is available in Pathfinder Society play (being a 3.5 feat).

    I'm wary of dumping strength because I did intend for this character to be a damage dealer. Why buy wisdom up to 17 at the get go, if I'm only ever going to get 6th level spells? Especially since I plan to use my spells to buff myself and my allies, so I don't really have to worry about save DCs.

    Edit: I guess I should clarify what exactly I'm looking for. I want to be a Divine Gish, using my spells to buff myself and become something of a monster in combat. I want to go sword and board for flavor reasons, and would be open to changing that if need be. And without Travel Domain I doubt I'll be able to work in the mobility I'd envisioned, so that isn't necessary.
    Travel Domain is not a feat. I think you're thinking of Travel Devotion, which is awesome in 3.5, but nobody suggested it.

    Wisdom gives you more spells per day. AkA more buffs you can cast...which you need if your party is more than just you.

    Sword and board is never going to do a lot of damage unless you have a way to pick up sneak attack and TWF, which is not going to happen, you don't have enough feats. Heroics and the War domain can give you some, but not enough to really matter. If you want to do damage, get a two hander and power attack. I was thinking you just wanted to be sword and board for style and to boost defense a little.

    It sounds more like you want to be a ranger with a sword and board, which is possible in PF, but without some form of sneak attack it's going to be very weak damage wise. Maybe multiclass Ranger/Rogue?

    Or maybe a Paladin? Cleric/Paladin Holy Vindicator is the only real good "Divine Gish" supported in a PF only game.
    Last edited by Grynning; 2010-11-17 at 06:39 PM.
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    A Guide to Commonly Misunderstood 5th Edition Rules

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    Default Re: [Pathfinder Society] Clericzilla

    Quote Originally Posted by Grynning View Post
    Travel Domain is not a feat. I think you're thinking of Travel Devotion, which is awesome in 3.5, but nobody suggested it.

    Wisdom gives you more spells per day. AkA more buffs you can cast...which you need if your party is more than just you.

    Sword and board is never going to do a lot of damage unless you have a way to pick up sneak attack and TWF, which is not going to happen, you don't have enough feats. Heroics and the War domain can give you some, but not enough to really matter. If you want to do damage, get a two hander and power attack.
    Oops, I meant Travel Devotion (and I must have misread Rixx's post).

    And I know sword-and-board isn't going to deal as much damage as a two-handed power attacker, but I figured one-handed power attacking would work, and the shield would give me extra survivability (I intend to use a Chain Shirt until I can get a Mithral Breastplate). Is this not the case?

    Also, what buffs are good for a Pathfinder Melee Cleric? Divine Power seems to have been hit with the nerf-bat, compared to 3.5 - what else should I be looking at? I've never played a Cleric before, so all help is appreciated.

    Edit: I don't really want to play a Paladin - I want to focus a bit more on spellcasting than a Paladin would allow. And the Holy Vindicator doesn't really appeal to me.
    Last edited by Kalaska'Agathas; 2010-11-17 at 07:07 PM.
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    Default Re: [Pathfinder Society] Clericzilla

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalaska'Agathas View Post
    And I know sword-and-board isn't going to deal as much damage as a two-handed power attacker, but I figured one-handed power attacking would work, and the shield would give me extra survivability (I intend to use a Chain Shirt until I can get a Mithral Breastplate). Is this not the case?

    Also, what buffs are good for a Pathfinder Melee Cleric? Divine Power seems to have been hit with the nerf-bat, compared to 3.5 - what else should I be looking at? I've never played a Cleric before, so all help is appreciated.

    Edit: I don't really want to play a Paladin - I want to focus a bit more on spellcasting than a Paladin would allow. And the Holy Vindicator doesn't really appeal to me.
    Well, most any "gish" build is going to lose a little bit of casting, but with Pally 2/Cleric 6/HV 4 you'd only lose 3 casting levels at level 12, which isn't horrible. And the class does buff your shield and healing a little, though I agree that the flavor is kinda dumb (especially the stigmata bit, a little too old-school Christian for D&D IMO).

    If you want to stick with straight Cleric, I'd say pick a deity that has a sword as their Favored Weapon, since I just remembered that PF clerics do automatically get proficiency with that. For optimal damage potential, I'd say Gorum for the greatsword. For rapier, there's Cayden Cailean or Besmara. No PF deities have the longsword, strangely. If you go with rapier, there's little reason NOT to use a shield of some kind, so there you go.

    As far as buffs go, Divine Power is still pretty good, but it's 5th level, so depending when you start, it might be a while. The domain power for War is not bad, just gives a bonus to damage rolls, and you can use it on yourself. Magic Weapon and Vestment of course, Protection from (alignment) is still pretty good, though it no longer grants universal immunity to mind-affecting Shield of Faith. Aid is pretty good, as is the new Channel Vigor spell. Righteous Might still rocks. I'm not making a complete list, but there's still plenty of buff options for clerics, is the point.

    For your current concept, I'd go with a cleric of Besmara with the Trickery and War domains (Chaotic Neutral pirate-type) or a cleric of Cayden Cailean with the Strength and Travel (or Liberation) domains (more good-ish).

    If you want to hit harder, Gorum with Strength and War. You can get both Divine Power (lvl 4) and Righteous Might (lvl 5) as domain spells.

    Either way, keep in mind that buffing someone else may often be better than buffing yourself. The fighter gets more out of Enlarge Person or Bull's Strength than you do almost every time. Clericzilla is a generally a TO idea and not usually a party-friendly way to play, unless the group is otherwise lacking in front-line melee.
    Last edited by Grynning; 2010-11-17 at 08:38 PM.
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    Default Re: [Pathfinder Society] Clericzilla

    Iomedae has longsword as favored weapon.

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    Default Re: [Pathfinder Society] Clericzilla

    Ah, must've missed that one, I thought it was odd. I know the PF rules changes pretty well but I've paid zero attention to their fluff; all my groups either use homebrewed settings or Eberron.
    Last edited by Grynning; 2010-11-17 at 10:41 PM.
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    Default Re: [Pathfinder Society] Clericzilla

    So, I'm thinking I'll use a Longsword and Buckler because if I want to I can forgo the Buckler's AC bonus and two-hand the Longsword. The build I'm considering would be either straight Cleric or Cleric 11/Holy Vindicator 1 for the Holy Vindicator's Vindicator's Shield ability. One question on that, does it have a duration? Or do I get to simply channel energy into it once and have it last all day? Also, is it worth 1 fifth and 1 sixth level spell per day?

    As far as Deities and Domains go, I'm thinking Besmara, Trickery (or Thievery), and War. The character would be Chaotic Neutral, spontaneously cast Cure spells, and channel Positive Energy.

    I'm thinking of taking the traits Reactionary and Adopted (Human Bonus Feat) or Magical Lineage (some spell which I'll often want to extend).

    For my feats (I'll get 6, or 7 with the Adopted trait) I'm thinking Extend Spell, Power Attack, Alignment Channel (if I go Holy Vindicator), Selective Channel, and maybe Lunge. What else should I look into?

    And finally, for my race and stats, I'm thinking Elf and the following stats (before racial modifiers):
    STR 14
    DEX 12
    CON 12
    INT 10
    WIS 15
    CHA 12

    I would then put my two stat increases into WIS.

    What do you think of this?

    Edit: Insufficient Charisma for Selective Channel. And Adopted doesn't work that way.
    Last edited by Kalaska'Agathas; 2010-11-18 at 03:03 AM.
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    Default Re: [Pathfinder Society] Clericzilla

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalaska'Agathas View Post
    So, I'm thinking I'll use a Longsword and Buckler because if I want to I can forgo the Buckler's AC bonus and two-hand the Longsword. The build I'm considering would be either straight Cleric or Cleric 11/Holy Vindicator 1 for the Holy Vindicator's Vindicator's Shield ability. One question on that, does it have a duration? Or do I get to simply channel energy into it once and have it last all day? Also, is it worth 1 fifth and 1 sixth level spell per day?
    IIRC, it would seem the Vindicator's Shield lasts all day until you get hit the first time ... or get attacked the first time. I don't have the book in front of me, but from what I recall that's how it works. Is it worth a 1 5th and 1 6th level spell? IMHO, no. Granted, I'm taking that prestige class for my cleric but I'll be taking it to 10 levels.

    If you're going the trickery domain, maybe a level of rogue could be a nice flavor for you but again ... you'll loose 1 5th and 1 6th lvl spell plus the jump from Cleric 11 to Cleric 12 gives you +1 BAB, +1 Fort, +1 Refl, +1 Will.

    Good luck,

    Dizlag

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    Default Re: [Pathfinder Society] Clericzilla

    I don't see anything in the text of Vindicator's Shield that suggests it only lasts through one hit.

    Quote Originally Posted by PFSRD
    Vindicator’s Shield (Su)

    A vindicator can channel energy into his shield as a standard action; when worn, the shield gives the vindicator a sacred bonus (if positive energy) or profane bonus (if negative energy) to his Armor Class equal to the number of dice of the vindicator’s channel energy.
    I don't think a level of Rogue would synergize well with the combat strategy I'm going for with this character.
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    Default Re: [Pathfinder Society] Clericzilla

    Just as a note, but channeling negative energy and taking rebuke undead makes a LOT of PF modules much easier to defeat if you're going to be in PFS. There's not much need for spontaneous healing spells or weak AOE healing when you can get a wand of cure light wounds as a Prestige reward after your first adventure. Of course, if it doesn't fit with the character you had in mind, that's your own decision.

    Rather than a buckler you might as well use a large shield for +1 more AC, and just drop the shield when you want to 2-hand the longsword. For feats, Cleave might be a good early option rather than Extend.
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    Default Re: [Pathfinder Society] Clericzilla

    I don't see anything in the text of Vindicator's Shield that suggests it only lasts through one hit.
    You need to read the very next sentence ... "This bonus lasts for 24 hours or until the vindicator is struck in combat, whichever comes first."

    I just did a search for it and found a quote of the entire entry here. It's a nice PrC. And I'll second Akal Saris saying you should just get a large shield and drop it if you want to go 2-hander style.

    Dizlag
    Last edited by Dizlag; 2010-11-18 at 01:19 PM.

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    Default Re: [Pathfinder Society] Clericzilla

    Can I interest you in the Plant domain?

    With the Growth Subdomain (from APG) you get Enlarge person as a Swift action 3 times (plus your widsom modifier) per day. This will give you more damage with your weapon, 10 foot reach (for those silly AoO when people run through all of those threatened squares of yours)...

    And since it's a swift action you can also cast bulls strength on yourself the same round and simply turn into the hulk!

    Plus with plant domain you get Barkskin (natural armor enhancement, which will take away the minuses for being enlarged) and Righteous Might at later levels... which is Enlarge person on Steroids!

    My next Clericzilla will have this domain. It's almost better than the war doman as far as damage is concerned.

    I suppose you could refluff Barkskin as actually turning your skin green... then it would literally be like you are turning into the Hulk.

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    Default Re: [Pathfinder Society] Clericzilla

    Quote Originally Posted by Dizlag View Post
    You need to read the very next sentence ... "This bonus lasts for 24 hours or until the vindicator is struck in combat, whichever comes first."

    I just did a search for it and found a quote of the entire entry here. It's a nice PrC. And I'll second Akal Saris saying you should just get a large shield and drop it if you want to go 2-hander style.

    Dizlag
    Hmmm, I wonder why that line isn't in the PFSRD... I'm using the buckler because of flavor reasons, but I'll look into the large shield.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sillycomic View Post
    Can I interest you in the Plant domain?

    With the Growth Subdomain (from APG) you get Enlarge person as a Swift action 3 times (plus your widsom modifier) per day. This will give you more damage with your weapon, 10 foot reach (for those silly AoO when people run through all of those threatened squares of yours)...

    And since it's a swift action you can also cast bulls strength on yourself the same round and simply turn into the hulk!

    Plus with plant domain you get Barkskin (natural armor enhancement, which will take away the minuses for being enlarged) and Righteous Might at later levels... which is Enlarge person on Steroids!

    My next Clericzilla will have this domain. It's almost better than the war doman as far as damage is concerned.

    I suppose you could refluff Barkskin as actually turning your skin green... then it would literally be like you are turning into the Hulk.
    I think I'd rather have the Tactics domain, frankly, because spells like Plant Growth and the rest don't really fit my concept.
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    Default Re: [Pathfinder Society] Clericzilla

    So it seems Besmara is not available for Pathfinder Society Organized Play. That means I can't get Trickery and War domains together. So should I go with Cayden Cailean and the Strength and Travel domains? Or is there another option for a Martial Cleric?
    No levelled malice
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