[PF/3.5]Pugilist Fighter vs Monk of the Four Winds

[Rasman]

As some of you know, or those that read my signature anyway, I'm working on a character and choosing his class levels. I'm looking for Flavor and Practicality. At first I thought that Monk of the Four Winds, an Alternate Class Feature from the Advanced Players Guide, would be perfect for Armstrong. He'd gain Improved Grapple and substitute Elemental Fist in for Stunning Fist, which is just a flat out Damage Increase since it scales with monk level. Not to mention the 12th level ability that allows 3 Standard Actions in a round that can be anything BUT a full attack action for 6 Ki. Throw in Combat Reflexes and later Greater Grapple and he'd be headed in the right direction.

Then I remembered a Fighter Alternate Class Feature based around boxing, which when watching Armstrong fight, is VERY much what it feels like. There I found the Pugilist Fighter which gives a plethora of feats and abilities like "Combo - The 1st and 2nd Unarmed Strike in a round can be a "Combo" and have their BABs averaged" Or "Iron Jaw - The Pugilist Fighter gains DR = to his Con Modifier against Unarmed Damage and gains a +1 on Saves vs being Stunned" or even "Heavy Hitting - +2 to Non-Lethal Damage."

Monk also increases Unarmed Damage, where as, Pugilist Fighter does not, so I'm torn between, "Hit's Often" and "Hits Hard," for the most part.

My real question is, what direction, or combination thereof, is the most optimal based on this concept?

[Eldariel]

How many sources are you working with? Superior Unarmed Strike [ToB] could give a delayed Unarmed Damage progression to Fighter, making it easily preferable (especially combined with the damage increases from the specialization options and all that PF Fighter gets).

That said, just remember that miss is 0 damage; hitting > not hitting even if hitting involves less painful hits.

[Xyk]

Pugilist fighter is redundant. That's all I wanted to say, sorry I can't help, having virtually no experience with monks and having never heard of PF.

[Grynning]

Pugilist fighter is redundant...

No, it isn't. A pugilist is specifically someone who fights with their fists. A fighter is just someone who fights.

PF stands for Pathfinder.

I'd go with the fighter build, personally. The higher BAB is worth it, as is the lack of MAD.

Are you actually planning on taking Alchemist levels?

[Rasman]

How many sources are you working with? Superior Unarmed Strike [ToB] could give a delayed Unarmed Damage progression to Fighter, making it easily preferable (especially combined with the damage increases from the specialization options and all that PF Fighter gets).

That said, just remember that miss is 0 damage; hitting > not hitting even if hitting involves less painful hits.

I have access to anybook so long as I can prove it exists/show it to my DM. XD

No, it isn't. A pugilist is specifically someone who fights with their fists. A fighter is just someone who fights.

PF stands for Pathfinder.

I'd go with the fighter build, personally. The higher BAB is worth it, as is the lack of MAD.

Are you actually planning on taking Alchemist levels?

lol...exactly

Ironically, I'm not. It just doesn't fit him thematically, although if you look at the thread, you'll find my way around it.

Should I concern myself with the lack of AC though? I mean, he doesn't really wear armor other than his Abs o Steel. That's one of the big reasons I was considering taking Monk, since he'd get a nice AC bonus from Wis.

[Eldariel]

Ironically, I'm not. It just doesn't fit him thematically, although if you look at the thread, you'll find my way around it.

Should I concern myself with the lack of AC though? I mean, he doesn't really wear armor other than his Abs o Steel. That's one of the big reasons I was considering taking Monk, since he'd get a nice AC bonus from Wis.

3.5 classes "Fist of the Forest" and "Deepwarden" seem more fitting; they give you Constitution to AC (Deepwarden is Dwarf-specific and replaces Dex to AC, but with 3 levels in Stoneblessed [Races of Stone], you can enter as a Human and get +2 Constitution as a bonus). Fist of the Forests also advances Unarmed Damage, which is cool. Really, I'd go that route (refluffing Fist of the Forests for him). Maybe Runescarred Berserker or so for the actual Alchemy.

[Rasman]

3.5 classes "Fist of the Forest" and "Deepwarden" seem more fitting; they give you Constitution to AC (Deepwarden is Dwarf-specific and replaces Dex to AC, but with 3 levels in Stoneblessed [Races of Stone], you can enter as a Human and get +2 Constitution as a bonus). Fist of the Forests also advances Unarmed Damage, which is cool. Really, I'd go that route (refluffing Fist of the Forests for him). Maybe Runescarred Berserker or so for the actual Alchemy.

I like Fist of the Forest...I really do...but the RP aspect of it, where you have to scavenge for food and can't sleep in doors...I'd have to totally ignore that...

...I'll have to play with the idea of it...the unarmed Damage increase is ALMOST too good to pass up though...

[Eldariel]

I like Fist of the Forest...I really do...but the RP aspect of it, where you have to scavenge for food and can't sleep in doors...I'd have to totally ignore that...

Which is why I said "refluff". It's the perfect class mechanically for what you want so getting stuck because the fluff doesn't fit seems incredibly wasteful. Since you don't use weapons or armor, mayhap that's a limitation enough? "I WILL SMASH IT WITH MY FIST OR DIE TRYING AND MY SKIN IS HARDER THAN ANY ARMOR!"

[Rasman]

Which is why I said "refluff". It's the perfect class mechanically for what you want so getting stuck because the fluff doesn't fit seems incredibly wasteful. Since you don't use weapons or armor, mayhap that's a limitation enough? "I WILL SMASH IT WITH MY FIST OR DIE TRYING AND MY SKIN IS HARDER THAN ANY ARMOR!"

BEHOLD THE BEAUTIFUL BODY OF THE ARMSTRONG FAMILY, PASSED DOWN THOUGH GENERATIONS OF OUR BEAUTIFUL GENES!!!!

Ok, I'm sold. You destroyed me with Caps Lock and Essence of Armstrong, by Maybelline. Maybe he's born with it, or maybe...it's Maybelline.

[true_shinken]

Why don't you just multiclass Pugilist Fighter/Monk of the Four Winds?

[Rasman]

Why don't you just multiclass Pugilist Fighter/Monk of the Four Winds?

I am...shhhhhhhh...

lol...just now updating the levels on his page