if a character has a really high wisdom...

[randomhero00]

would he ever make a deal with a devil? even if he were desperate or power hungry. I mean the saying is that they always get you in the end. Right?

This is purely based on how you'd roleplay the stat. Let's say high, 30 wisdom.

[AslanCross]

Don't high-level evil clerics do this all the time?

[Mongoose87]

I think they'd only do it if they were convinced it was the best way. They'd probably be more likely to spot tricks the devil attempts.

[randomhero00]

Don't high-level evil clerics do this all the time?

Honestly, don't know. Do they? Although I suppose their soul is automatically going to Hell so it doesn't matter.

What if you soul wasn't going to auto go there though and you had that wisdom and were evil ish?

You need power, but is that too risky? Would your wisdom prevent it? Also keep in mind with stats in the 30s you have the possbiltity of becoming a god yourself. So you wouldn't neccessarily want to give your soul away...

[Psyren]

Redcloak is an example of high-Wis evil. He's doing what he does because he sees it as the only way.

He has very much sold his soul as well (just not literally.)

[Dracons]

Even the wisest and smartest people in the universe make mistakes.

Look at the DnD gods? Far higher wisdom then the average pc, and they still make mistakes.


Same with creatures.

Besides, being that wise may be more likely to do so, as they'd at that point have already seen through every lie and or loophole, and know how to retain their soul after the deal with the devil.

[randomhero00]

Still would they risk their immortal soul? The wisest answer (to a person with probably 14 wis) is to wait, and see what happens. No need to rush when it comes to forever...

[Flickerdart]

30 Wisdom strikes me as the clever folk hero who swindles the devil in question and gets what he wanted in the end. So yes, he would make the deal - but he'd have the answer to the single improbable loophole ready before the contract was even written.

[Psyren]

Well, an evil cleric is in a unique position. Either he gives it his all to serve his patron, or he goes with the "wait and see" approach and displeases his very petty and vindictive god.

If you're a cleric of Talos, or Malar, or gods forbid BANE, and you're tiptoeing around not trying to advance your patron's goals... you're pretty much screwed. So you may as well go full bore.

Now some deities reward subtlety - Mask and Shar for instance - but they are just as likely to encourage your peers to screw you over due to some labyrinthine plot that neither you nor the patsy who ousted you is fully aware of.

[Dracons]

Still would they risk their immortal soul? The wisest answer (to a person with probably 14 wis) is to wait, and see what happens. No need to rush when it comes to forever...

A person with a 14 wisdom wouldn't risk it, because they don't know how to apporch it or what to expect.

A person with a 30 wisdom, Fully knows what to expect, completely understands everything the devil is trying to do, maybe even know the devil better then the devil knows themself, and will easily get what he wants out of the deal, and leave the devil with the hopes of having a soul, that the 30 wisdom person has already figured out how to not only keep his soul, but get rewarded for it.

[randomhero00]

A person with a 14 wisdom wouldn't risk it, because they don't know how to apporch it or what to expect.

A person with a 30 wisdom, Fully knows what to expect, completely understands everything the devil is trying to do, maybe even know the devil better then the devil knows themself, and will easily get what he wants out of the deal, and leave the devil with the hopes of having a soul, that the 30 wisdom person has already figured out how to not only keep his soul, but get rewarded for it.

Well a person with 14 wisdom can be a lawyer and write a pretty complicated contract. So I don't know about that. 14 is above average.

I agree about the last part, but alas, DMs never seem to :)

[Talon Sky]

30 Wisdom strikes me as the clever folk hero who swindles the devil in question and gets what he wanted in the end. So yes, he would make the deal - but he'd have the answer to the single improbable loophole ready before the contract was even written.

Or has ranks in Perform (Fiddle). :D

I think a high wisdom score simply increases their chances of outwitting the devil in question....but it depends heavily on the situation. If you're power hungry and have 30 Wis, I'm sure you could figure out a better way then selling your soul.

[RebelRogue]

Wis is not Int! Writing/figuring out a complicated contract would be Int-based, and so would outwitting someone (paired with Cha, probably - Wis as a tertiary stat at most).

[Dracons]

Wisdom is knowing something. To figure it out. Not problem solving per se, but to see beyond it.

You can know fire is hot. You can know it hurts. Even the most highly intelligent person should know this. But not having that wisdom that it will always hurt and burn, they keep putting the finger in it.


Wisdom is being able to figure people and stuff out before it logically happens.

[The Dark Fiddler]

Writing/figuring out a complicated contract would be Int-based, and so would outwitting someone (paired with Cha, probably - Wis as a tertiary stat at most).

Wis would help to spot any loopholes and such in the contract you (or the devil) wrote up, as well as note any consequences of the contract.

Of course, the distinction between the mental stats are murky at best sometimes.

[Godskook]

Personally, I view wisdom as mental constitution, and like constitution, its almost purely a defensive stat. I don't expect a wisdom 30 individual to outwit anyone, but at the same time, I fully expect them to not be outsmarted. With that much wisdom, their mind is a fortress.

[snoopy13a]

would he ever make a deal with a devil? even if he were desperate or power hungry. I mean the saying is that they always get you in the end. Right?

This is purely based on how you'd roleplay the stat. Let's say high, 30 wisdom.

What if the deal is:

Hey devil, I see that you have a donut. I have a bagel, want to trade?

I see no ill-effects from that deal (unless the donut is poisoned or something ).

[Lord Vukodlak]

Do not confuse evil deities with devils. They aren't the same thing Clerics of evil deities are very likely promised a reward in the after life for faithful service to there god. Whether or not this is true depends on cosmology, in say faerun your soul belongs to the god you worship.

[Esser-Z]

Yes, because he's wise enough to find his own loophole.

[Kaun]

Personally, I view wisdom as mental constitution, and like constitution, its almost purely a defensive stat. I don't expect a wisdom 30 individual to outwit anyone, but at the same time, I fully expect them to not be outsmarted. With that much wisdom, their mind is a fortress.

I am sort of on this line of thinking.

I see Wisdom as an understanding of what is; so those with high wisdom would be able to spot the pit falls and loop holes of what is presented to them.

I see Inteligence as the creative spark; the ability to create a new idea or stratergy out of nothing, the ability to comprehend information and to twist it to their own needs but not necessarily able to spot the failings of their own therioes.

I see Charisma as the salesmens smile; the ability to take an idea and convince others of its value.

So with reguards to a high wisdom chr makeing a deal with the devil, it is possible but it is more then likely they know exactly what their getting them self into.

[dspeyer]

Still would they risk their immortal soul? The wisest answer (to a person with probably 14 wis) is to wait, and see what happens. No need to rush when it comes to forever...

Wisdom allows you to weigh high stakes, even your own soul.

[Dracons]

Not to mention it's been proven time and time again, that even an idiot can get his soul back due to a loop hole or something, even if they're unaware. (Homer Simpson's soul belonging to Marge due to his marriage contract and not to Satan, Elliot Richards using his last wish for a selfless wish saved his soul, whatever deal that Szass Tam did against Bane, Ghost Rider, Spawn, all beings that for the most part only had normal wisdom and made deals with their souls.

They all ended up keeping it, much to the hatred of their dealers.

Just signing the contract with your blood doesn't make it binding.

Hell, in the game if you feel that the contract hasn't been fillfilled to the letter (and that's what counts) you can challenge it against a pit fiend judge.


Sometimes selling your soul is what it takes. It's just the high wisdom people know exactly how to sell it just right, to get it back without harm immeditly.

[randomhero00]

Personally I associate wisdom with cleverness and therefor the most important stat in dealing with contracts. Now you'd need a decent int to write it up, and a decent cha to convince the demon/god to agree, but its the wis that's most important.