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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default What class uses VoP best?

    Preface: I'm not here to ask whether or not VoP is good.

    If you had to put Vow of Poverty on a character with the intention of keeping it, what race/class would you use? Any official material allowed, flaws allowed. Nothing pun-pun-esque. If you have to justify it to yourself, assume a campaign where the DM keeps destroying or stealing your gear.

    I'm thinking either an incarnum user of some sort, a psion, or a Tashalatora monk/psywarrior. Probably human for that last one. Adamantine Warforged for the psion, Same for the incarnum user.

    What would Cthulhu you do?

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    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: What class uses VoP best?

    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Bob View Post
    Preface: I'm not here to ask whether or not VoP is good.

    If you had to put Vow of Poverty on a character with the intention of keeping it, what race/class would you use? Any official material allowed, flaws allowed. Nothing pun-pun-esque. If you have to justify it to yourself, assume a campaign where the DM keeps destroying or stealing your gear.

    I'm thinking either an incarnum user of some sort, a psion, or a Tashalatora monk/psywarrior. Probably human for that last one. Adamantine Warforged for the psion, Same for the incarnum user.

    What would Cthulhu you do?
    Druid. It isn't even terribly close; out of all characters, they really just don't need items for anything much. Though yeah, Incarnum works too.
    Campaign Journal: Uncovering the Lost World - A Player's Diary in Low-Magic D&D (Latest Update: 8.3.2014)
    Being Bane: A Guide to Barbarians Cracking Small Men - Ever Been Angry?! Then this is for you!
    SRD Averages - An aggregation of all the key stats of all the monster entries on SRD arranged by CR.

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    Duke of URL's Avatar

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    Default Re: What class uses VoP best?

    I gotta agree with Druid. Not even close, really. All of the things they can't get from VoP itself, they can get from spells (as long as they're allowed a divine focus) and/or wildshape.

    I've never used incarnum or binding, so I can't speak to that.

    (CG) Warlocks and Dragonfire Adepts could possibly work well with VoP -- they aren't all that equipment-dependent, they don't use focuses or material components often, if at all, and their invocations can cover the gaps not provided by VoP (such as flight).


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    Default Re: What class uses VoP best?

    Any class that can cast without material components and/or fight without magical gear. So psionicists, incarnum-users, Binders etc.

    EDIT: And yes, druids
    Last edited by Psyren; 2010-11-18 at 02:22 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: What class uses VoP best?

    Druid sounds like a good option, as well. I'm a fan of my Gnome Druids, mainly because their disadvantages (low STR and low speed) get dropped in Wildshape.

    I'm fairly sure that Warforged have better options than spending a feat on Adamantine plating. Isn't there a Psiforged option?

    There is always the psionic sandwich Headband of Intellect, although you'd have trouble describing how someone taking the Vow of Poverty got the money together to create such a thing.

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    Default Re: What class uses VoP best?

    I would have to say that a Monk is a close second to the Druid. While the Druid can be played without items, spellcasters are usually better with items. A Monk is designed to be played while wielding no weapon and having no armor. Might as well as take away all their items, give them touch of golden ice for added insanity and go for it. Shake hands with everyone you meet.

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    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: What class uses VoP best?

    Quote Originally Posted by LordWolfgang View Post
    I would have to say that a Monk is a close second to the Druid. While the Druid can be played without items, spellcasters are usually better with items. A Monk is designed to be played while wielding no weapon and having no armor. Might as well as take away all their items, give them touch of golden ice for added insanity and go for it. Shake hands with everyone you meet.
    Monk needs items to fly, teleport, enhance their unarmed strikes, increase in size and so on. Monks don't use mundane items but they're total suckers for magic items. Everybody without magic is utterly dependent on magic items; Monks are no less equipment dependent than Fighters or Barbarians in that regard. Sure, they need slightly less mundane items, but that doesn't help much in adventuring. Not to mention, VoP goes quite poorly with the multi-attribute dependency of the Monks; you only get 2 high stats and Monks need 4.
    Last edited by Eldariel; 2010-11-18 at 02:27 PM.
    Campaign Journal: Uncovering the Lost World - A Player's Diary in Low-Magic D&D (Latest Update: 8.3.2014)
    Being Bane: A Guide to Barbarians Cracking Small Men - Ever Been Angry?! Then this is for you!
    SRD Averages - An aggregation of all the key stats of all the monster entries on SRD arranged by CR.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Library Lovers Contest Winner
     
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    Default Re: What class uses VoP best?

    Quote Originally Posted by LordWolfgang View Post
    I would have to say that a Monk is a close second to the Druid. While the Druid can be played without items, spellcasters are usually better with items. A Monk is designed to be played while wielding no weapon and having no armor. Might as well as take away all their items, give them touch of golden ice for added insanity and go for it. Shake hands with everyone you meet.
    One word: flight.


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    Default Re: What class uses VoP best?

    A Monk does better with VoP than a Fighter or Rogue... but that's not saying much really.

    A Soulknife isn't bad with VoP, especially if he goes into Soulbow.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Quote Originally Posted by gogogome View Post
    Cheers to Psyren the MVP "naysayer".
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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: What class uses VoP best?

    Quote Originally Posted by LordWolfgang View Post
    I would have to say that a Monk is a close second to the Druid. While the Druid can be played without items, spellcasters are usually better with items. A Monk is designed to be played while wielding no weapon and having no armor. Might as well as take away all their items, give them touch of golden ice for added insanity and go for it. Shake hands with everyone you meet.
    I DMed a VoP monk. It didn't help him nearly as a WBL budget could have...

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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    AstralFire's Avatar

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    Default Re: What class uses VoP best?

    Unarmed Swordsage can get away with it.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: What class uses VoP best?

    Druid, full stop. Totemist for 2nd place.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

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    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: What class uses VoP best?

    Quote Originally Posted by Duke of URL View Post
    I gotta agree with Druid. Not even close, really. All of the things they can't get from VoP itself, they can get from spells (as long as they're allowed a divine focus) and/or wildshape.
    Druids use holly and mistletoe for a divine focus. It has no monetary value.
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    Default Re: What class uses VoP best?

    Note that a Druid's effectiveness does drop with VoP. For instance, they can't use Shapechange anymore due to the expensive focus.

    (sublime rhyme?)
    Last edited by Psyren; 2010-11-18 at 03:25 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Quote Originally Posted by gogogome View Post
    Cheers to Psyren the MVP "naysayer".
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    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: What class uses VoP best?

    The best classes for Vow of Poverty are those who already solve most of their problems by class features. If you look at a situation and think "I can do that" most of the time, you're probably gonna do alright with the vow. If you look at it and think "I have the perfect widget in my backpack" instead.. stay the heck away. Focusing on armor, weapons, and stat boosters is missing the point, because the Vow actually does a reasonably good job of covering those. Taking the Vow means you don't have a cache of random potions that you've found on your adventures. It means you don't have a Figurine of Wondrous Power when you want something big and mostly expendable to stand in the way of an opponent. It means you don't have a Bag of Holding to lug around that interesting tapestry on the villain's wall. It means you don't have a Healing Belt, or Anklets of Translocation, or Feather Tokens, or Chronocharms, or any of those other neat minor utilities that completely save the day from time to time... sometimes, you just need a tree. If your class features can do that kind of stuff instead, then you can consider taking the Vow. Which means, for the most part, being a full caster, with Incarnum as an honorable mention for having almost as much variety in options.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: What class uses VoP best?

    A Tashalatora Monk 2/ Ardent, Psychic Warrior, or Psion X might be able to get away with VoP.

    Elf (preferably Gray) with the ACFs of Elf Wizard (RotW), Eidetic Spellcaster (Drag #357), and Spontaneous Divination (CC) with the feats Collegiate Wizard (CA) and maybe Aerenal Arcanist (PGtE) might be able to VoP (possibly at 1st level with flaws). As long as you stay away from spells with expensive material components (unless you like going with sacrificing 1XP per 5gp of components) and maybe get Eschew Materials you should be good to go.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: What class uses VoP best?

    Seconding Totemist as the clear runner-up. Psion might be third.
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    Troll in the Playground
     
    Chimera

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    Default Re: What class uses VoP best?

    Shapeshift druid variant, since eq does not carry over.

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    Default Re: What class uses VoP best?

    Binder and Dragonfire Adept don't do too badly, either. Well, if you don't consider Eurynome's Maul or Savnok's Armor "possessions" anyway...

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