DM Help - Rules for a horse-drawn carriage in an encounter?

[Dakaran]

I was hoping that someone might be able to give me some pointers on creating some encounters around a horse-drawn carriage. I'll describe the carriage quickly and then mention the rules I'm looking to get some clarification/help on.

The carriage is a going to be pulled by 2 horses (maybe more if 2 doesn't make sense) and have a driver. Ideally the carriage is supposed to be a simple distance transport carriage to carry 1 driver and up to 16 passengers between towns roughly 8 to 12 hours apart. I'm thinking that people would be sitting in the carriage around 2 to 3 feet off the ground. There would be benches for seating and the sides of the carriage would come up to the top of the bench backs. Storage for peoples goods would be in compartments on the underside of the carriage.

The rules I'm looking to put together revolve around possible things that could happen in some encounters. During one encounter the carriage would be at a stop and then attacked. During another encounter the carriage would be assaulted by mounted enemies. I'll try to number my questions to track this more easily.

#1 & 2 - If a PC needed to swap places with an NPC in the carriage, what would the penalty to speed be? Is it possible to displace a willing NPC?

#3 - If a monster on the ground wanted to climb onto the side of the carriage, what kind of movement issues am I looking at?

#4 If a character were to be dragged/pushed off of the carriage while it's stopped is 1d4 falling damage appropriate?

#5 - If a character were to be pushed/pulled off of a moving carriage should I increase falling damage?

#6 - Does a carriage being pulled by horses take on the speed that a horse could move?

#7 - If a character in the carriage were to be attacked from an enemy on the ground, on a mount, or hanging on the side of the carriage what kind of cover or negatives to the attack rolls would there be?

I know this is a question heavy post, but I would appreciate any help/thoughts. Thanks!

Dakaran

[Oracle_Hunter]

Obligatory "What system?" Post

[Dakaran]

Ah, of course. I knew I'd forget something, haha. I'm playing with 4th edition.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Swapping Positions - the easiest way for PCs to do this is for the second PC to Ready an Action triggered by "PC #1 enters my space." For NPCs I'd simply make it a Standard Action to switch places - no reason to fiddle with Speed Penalties.

Mounting the Carriage - The climbing rules in the PHB should serve fine.

Falling off the Carriage - the falling damage rules in the DMG should serve fine. I'd add in an extra d10 if the Carriage is moving at a fast pace.

Moving the Carriage - don't bother modeling this. Run all encounters with the carriage serving as the frame of reference. Unless you're having a high-speed chase, don't have it move at all.

Attacking the Carriage - the Cover rules in the DMG should serve fine. Also, when hanging off something you grant Combat Advantage.

[Dakaran]

Thanks for the help, Oracle_Hunter. I hadn't thought about granting combat advantage for anyone hanging on the side of the carriage.

If I were to have the carriage moving and some mounted enemies appear to run alongside the carriage and attack it do you think I'd need to be concerned with speeds of the mounted vs. the carriage? Is it just something I don't need to be super concerned with and can just move the enemies around the carriage at their given mount speed?

Thanks!
Dakaran

[Oracle_Hunter]

The bit about granting CA is actually in the Athletics rules. You should re-read the Skill section of the PHB - it answers a lot of the questions you asked.

And yeah, just let mounted creatures move about normally in "chase" scenes. However, if someone gets knocked onto the ground, be sure to effectively "remove" them from the Encounter - they're going to be left in the dust.

[Sipex]

Have rules ready for if a player gets off the carriage (knocked off or otherwise) for any reason. Also, consistently give the melee characters something to do.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Have rules ready for if a player gets off the carriage (knocked off or otherwise) for any reason. Also, consistently give the melee characters something to do.

RAW says that a character getting knocked off something gets a Saving Throw with success leaving them prone at the brink (or unaffected, if moved by Teleport).

Also: I'd also advise against having opponents who have powers that could knock PCs off the carriage - it'll be awkward having to deal with that.

[Sipex]

I'm still saying, have rules ready.

You could do everything to prevent it then your PC jumps off to tackle the guy on the horse.

I had a chase through the desert recently with my PCs (4th edition too) and we ran it as a sort of skill challenge/battle.

The carriage driver had options he/she could execute while driving (incorporating various skills) to give bonuses to the other PCs, attack riders and to grant him successes in the skill challenge (10 successes before 3 failures). They could also switch out of course.

At the end, if they failed they'd lose the carriage (during a chasm jump) and have to fight the boss on foot. If they succeeded they'd fight it alongside the carriage which made things much easier.

The team (ie: not the driver) had to fight off guys (minions mostly) who boarded the carriage or fired at it (every 10 damage gave the driver -1 to his next turn of skill checks).

[Dakaran]

Also: I'd also advise against having opponents who have powers that could knock PCs off the carriage - it'll be awkward having to deal with that.

Yeah, I'm not planning on doing that. The most likely scenario for someone falling off would be one of my players throwing/pushing an enemy off of the carriage. Although to Sipex's point, I think I should have all of the rules and scenarios put together in case one of my players does get a case of idiotness/awesomeness and decides to launch themselves into an opponent and off the side of the carriage.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Yeah, I'm not planning on doing that. The most likely scenario for someone falling off would be one of my players throwing/pushing an enemy off of the carriage. Although to Sipex's point, I think I should have all of the rules and scenarios put together in case one of my players does get a case of idiotness/awesomeness and decides to launch themselves into an opponent and off the side of the carriage.

Easy enough:

Make a Bull Rush attack versus the target. If he succeeds, he takes over the Horse; if he fails, he hits the dirt and is out of the Encounter.

Read up on the Jumping rules too; if they make a long jump as part of their Bull Rush, call it a Charge.

[Dakaran]

Would it be plausible for a PC that, for whatever reason, hit the ground during a "moving" encounter to be able to catch back up? I'm not in front of my books at the moment so I don't know off-hand how fast a horse drawn carriage moves, but could a PC catch-up by using both their standard action and move action to run after the carriage? Or would the carriage be using both a standard and move action to speed down the road and out run any chasing PC? I guess I could always let a PC catch up to a horse of a killed enemy that was mounted if I have the horse stop running after it's rider was dead. Or is that a bit of a stretch? I guess I'm assuming a single mounted rider could out run and catch up to a horse drawn carriage.

[Sipex]

Single horses outrunning a carriage is a good assumption. Also, having horses stop after their masters die/are thrown off is a good idea.

Maybe also include the scenario "You see the carriage heading for a sharp turn ahead in the road. If you run you might be able to catch up after it turns." and have them roll an athletics or acrobatic check to catch up.

[Dakaran]

Single horses outrunning a carriage is a good assumption. Also, having horses stop after their masters die/are thrown off is a good idea.

Maybe also include the scenario "You see the carriage heading for a sharp turn ahead in the road. If you run you might be able to catch up after it turns." and have them roll an athletics or acrobatic check to catch up.

Ooo, I like that! It could be a curvy road and PCs could in theory catch up by cutting corners in addition to the carriage slowing to take a turn in an effort to allow PCs (and maybe enemies) to catch up.

I know I'm probably asking a lot of noob questions, but as I haven't DM'd before hopefully I don't look too dumb. Is there some kind of advantage/disadvantage for PCs on the ground making ranged attacks against a mounted enemy?

[Sipex]

Nope, besides the fact that the mounted enemy can probably get out of range easily.

Also, lots of questions is fine. We're not low on posting space here.

[Jair Barik]

The carriage chase is a classic and from the dramatic point of view it should be enjoyable for the party as it is (by nature) highly 'cinematic'. Some systems (CoC, Shadow Run etc.) do have rules for such encounters but for D&D these homebrew rules sound pretty good. Definitely in agreement on the whole 'don't move the carriage' thing but may I suggest (just to make it less linear) that you have a carriage script? Based on the speed the carriage moves it would be easy enough to say "In round one this will happen, in round two you will see this..." and so on. This could lead to interesting choices and skill checks for the driver such as steering round a log in the path of the carriage or wether to take the left or right fork in a road. This last one may not sound that interesting but if say the players heard earlier in the adventure that 'the bridge was out due to some really bad weather' and knew which path lead to the bridge it would be a good reward for the players having listened. Just my 5cp