[4e] Are any Dragonborn dragon breath feats worth taking?

[Dakaran]

I haven't played as a Dragonborn before, but the race and their racial ability sound interesting. I'm wondering how often someone that takes one of dragon breath enhancing feats actually thinks "Yes, I'm glad I took that". I'm currently working on creating a [4e] Dragonborn Paladin, but I'm also looking at other classes too. I'm actually most curious about the Hurl Breath feat, but I would like to know about others. Has anyone taken that feat and thought it was worthwhile?

Thanks in advance for the input,
Dakaran

[Urpriest]

I've heard good things about Hurl Breath. A breath-focused build can be pretty effective, but it really monopolizes you're resources, and other builds don't really have much use for the other feats (with the possible exception of Breath Admixture on a Sorceror since it expands your Draconic Spellcaster bonus).

[Tankadin]

Litigation has a pretty exhaustive Paladin handbook up in the Character Optimization forum over at Wizards of the Coast that includes all of the Dragonborn racial feats. You should check it out.

As I recall, the only one you "have to have" is the one that lets you slap your Divine Sanction on anyone targeted by your breath attacks (Draconic Challenge, I think). This is pretty cool because it works hit or miss--and your breath attacks are going to miss a lot.

There are a couple of other interesting ones but there are a lot of other Paladin feats that are often mechanically better. A lot of the content updates have made the Paragon and Epic tiers awfully crowded, which makes it harder for me at least to burn extra feats on a relatively inaccurate power. Other classes might have better synergies, however.

[ninja_penguin]

My brain might not be remembering this properly, but wasn't there a divine power feat for Dragonborn that grants temp HP to party members inside the area? It went over pretty well with our group, but the group was heavily melee focused so things that burst or blasted and didn't kill the part off was always well received.

[Dakaran]

My brain might not be remembering this properly, but wasn't there a divine power feat for Dragonborn that grants temp HP to party members inside the area? It went over pretty well with our group, but the group was heavily melee focused so things that burst or blasted and didn't kill the part off was always well received.

Would you happen to know what source book that feat would be in? Isn't there a Divine Power book or something?

[ninja_penguin]

Yeah, that's what I meant. It's in the divine power book. Blessed Breath? I'm going entirely off of memory, so I might be getting it wrong. I could possibly be a paragon thing. I don't remember all of that, and I'm away from the book currently.

[Master_Rahl22]

Enlarged Breath is awesome for a Fighter, so once per encounter you mark everything in a 5x5 square. Other than that, they're generally not the best feats and only worth taking if you're playing some kind of "OMG Dragonborn Dragon Sorcerer DRAGON EVERYTHING" type theme character.

[Kurald Galain]

Well, basically your breath weapon is going to suck unless you take one of those feats. The exception is if you're a (non-hybrid) fighter, because it's an automatic mark on every target.

Sorcerers can get good mileage out of their breath weapon (and especially on hitting themselves with it), and clerics have a feat that heals allies you breathe on. I'm sure there's other examples.

[Mando Knight]

As I recall, the only one you "have to have" is the one that lets you slap your Divine Sanction on anyone targeted by your breath attacks (Draconic Challenge, I think). This is pretty cool because it works hit or miss--and your breath attacks are going to miss a lot.

It'll miss less if you're a Str-Paladin or take the PHB Races: Dragonborn feat "Powerful Breath." Really, it's only +1/+2/+3 behind Implement attacks, so if you're clever, it won't make much of a difference anyway.

Really, the meta-breath feats make Dragon Breath one of the most versatile encounter powers around: Bolstering Breath and Breath of Life make it a minor buff while cutting down on friendly fire, Draconic Challenge unleashes one of the best multi-marks in the game (doesn't require a reaction or attack roll to retaliate for attacks, though the damage is pretty minor), Radiant Breath pretty much removes any chance of the enemy resisting it and keys in with Radiant Mafia groups. In addition, several Dragonborn Paragon Paths have the ability to reuse your Dragon Breath for free when you use an Action Point to act again.

[Dakaran]

Yeah, that's what I meant. It's in the divine power book. Blessed Breath? I'm going entirely off of memory, so I might be getting it wrong. I could possibly be a paragon thing. I don't remember all of that, and I'm away from the book currently.

ninja_penguin, I found the feat you were referring to. It's called Breath of Life and it only damages enemies and gives your allies temp HP equal to your Strength modifier.

[DragonBaneDM]

Enlarged Breath is awesome for a Fighter, so once per encounter you mark everything in a 5x5 square. Other than that, they're generally not the best feats and only worth taking if you're playing some kind of "OMG Dragonborn Dragon Sorcerer DRAGON EVERYTHING" type theme character.

Oh God. My friend plays this.

[dsmiles]

Enlarged Breath is AWESOME for a Fighter, so once per encounter you mark everything in a 5x5 square.

Yes. Yes it is. FTFY

[RebelRogue]

Sorcerers can get good mileage out of their breath weapon (and especially on hitting themselves with it), and clerics have a feat that heals allies you breathe on. I'm sure there's other examples.

Can you hit yourself with a close blast?

[serok42]

Can you hit yourself with a close blast?

You can only hit yourself if you take Hurl Breath as far as I know.

[DragonBaneDM]

Oh, and Dragonborn Scion helps with this kind of character. I believe you get an extra type on your Breath.

[incandescent]

I can't remember the exact build, but a friend of mine who's very good at finding weird options managed to take a paragon path that made his breath an implement attack (for attack and damage). He also took a breath feat that allowed him to recharge it when he took damage of the appropriate type (he was a fire sorcerer and could pierce his own resistance). He could attack up to 3 times a round by using breath, attacking himself and an enemy with an area burst fire attack, and using breath again. and his breath was a blast 5 that damaged everyone and gave all his allies a +1 to attack rolls.

If you can find the appropriate synergies and drop enough feats, you can make your breath a formidable weapon. (but literally every one of his feats had the word "dragon" in it :P)

[tcrudisi]

You can only hit yourself if you take Hurl Breath as far as I know.

Technically true, due to the wording of close attacks. While my D&DI subscription has sadly ended as of a couple of days ago, I remember that the wording of close attacks forbids the caster from being hit. So even if you had a way to throw a close blast or close burst attack and put yourself in the blast/burst, you would be unaffected by it. By RAW. (Since I play LFR, I try to play by strictly LFR rules, so RAW is incredibly important to me.)

Hurl Breath changes this by turning it into an Area Burst, which can affect the caster.

... a paragon path that made his breath an implement attack (for attack and damage). He also took a breath feat that allowed him to recharge it when he took damage of the appropriate type (he was a fire sorcerer and could pierce his own resistance). He could attack up to 3 times a round by using breath, attacking himself and an enemy with an area burst fire attack, and using breath again. and his breath was a blast 5 that damaged everyone and gave all his allies a +1 to attack rolls.

In order: Ninefold Master, Ancient Soul, Enlarged Dragon Breath (blast 5, although this technically doesn't work), and Bolstering Breath.

I believe you were thinking of Hurl Breath due to the reasons outlined above. Burst 2 and Blast 5 are the same size anyway.

The main problem with this combo? It drains your healing surges really quickly. And you have to survive long enough to keep doing it.

[TheEmerged]

Surprised it took that long for Bolstering Breath to come up.

The guy who plays a dragonborn paladin in our group has the Divine Sanction talent, Bolstering Breath, Enlarged Breath, and the paragon-level talent that weakens one target in the burst. Since he's almost always in melee range Hurl Breath wouldn't be worth it. He nearly went with a ranged Warlord that had Hurl Breath instead of Enlarged, though.

[Meta]

fun idea i've been toying with. Mass marking, quite tough, and some pretty good control and damage eventually. Pretty versatile build that will work at all levels and is quite a good pure defender that's going to be able to take the beating it's going to attract. Until level 30, where you're still a really good defender but 4 dragon breaths a turn that knock down monsters' defenses (-5/-3/-3/-3) and dazes means you don't need too

Dragonborn Paladin|Swordmage
Ninefold Master
Arcane Sword

Max Cha and Con

Feats:

1 - Paladin Armor Proficiency
2 - Draconic Challenge
4 - Versatile Expertise
6 – Improved Defenses
8 - Unknown
10 - Draconic Spellcaster
11 - Hero’s Poise
12 – Hurl Breath
14 - Corrosive Breath
16 - Arcane Admixture (Lightning Dragon Breath)
18 – Thundering Breath
20 – Bolstering Breath
21 – Dissolving Breath
22 – Concussive Breath
24 – Resounding Thunder
26 – Epic Will
28 – Oncoming Storm
30 – Duel Implement Spellcaster

Powers:
Virtuous Strike
Swordmage At-will that will never be used

Encounter:
Valorous Smite
Dimensional Vortex
Avenging Smite
Dragon Aura
Castigating Strike replaces Valorous Smite
Surprising Transposition replaces Dimensional Vortex
Trail of Adversity replaces Avenging Smite
Restricting Smite replaces Castigating Strike

Daily:
Majestic Halo
Energy Theft
Unyielding Faith
Knight’s Defiance
Corona of Blinding Radiance replaces Unyielding Faith
Dragon Tempest replaces Majestic Halo
Discipline the Unruly replaces Knight’s Defiance
Quicksilver Blade replaces Energy Theft

Utility:
Virtue
Armanthor’s Step
Call of Challenge
Countering Breath
Indomitiable Ally
Failure Is No option

Gear:
Soulwarding Plate Armor
Rhythm Spiked Shield
Longsword
Brooch of Vitality
Iron Armbands of Power
Boots of Quickness
Foe Caller Gauntlets
Coif of Mindiron
Ring of Free Time
Shadow Band
Diamond Cincture
Eberron Shard of Lightning