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    Default Bringing Gods down a notch...[3.5 and derivatives]

    Ok, this may sound a little out-there, but there is a certain logic to it. Please read yon wall'o'text because I'd really like suggestions and methods of implementation for this but it'll take a moment to explain:

    On Gods...

    I know this might sound alien, but D&D gods are, to my logic, massively overpowered for what they can do...

    I'm not saying that slaying gods should be easy, but just that they have kind of left the myths way behind in power levels.

    Ok, in myth, Gods tend to have a certain level of power, but when you peel the surface off them, especially in the case of the Mesoamerican, AEsir [norse gods] and the Olympians, that tends to come from being something powerful BEFORE you take their role as worshipped beings into account.

    This isn't meant as a discussion of real world religion so we'll stop there on the examples, but suffice to say that even in the case of the latter, where the nearest thing i can find to Gaia in the sourcebooks is a Genius Loci, the gods don't tend to warrant the massive 80 odd HD many of them have.

    And then you factor in the lesser entities. The Vanir are part of the Norse pantheon but these were only the greatest of their kind, with others from their realm hanging around in the world and playing god/devil with mortals. Often, folks would kind of adopt one and make sacrifices to it to get a benefit [good weather, good crops, better butter, winning lottery tickets, whatever].

    Anyway, my reason for this basic introduction is that I'd like to create a set of rules to allow for 'Small gods.' I know there is Legends and Lairs but that's not really what i'm going for. Those act to grant spells but don't have the "hey, I have genuinely impressive abilities" angle.

    What was the point of all that drivel?!

    Ok, so we have that out of the way; what i'm hoping for is suggestions for bringing the Divine Salient abilities and any connected feats down into the realm of normal play, ideally with the goal of making a component based +1 or +2 CR template that could be, say, applied to a Dryad to make that Scarecrow creature from season 1 of Supernatural.

    If it helps, assume that this is intended for E6 play...

    Ideas should ideally include a name, abasic description and maybe some suggestions on the mechanics that it could run off.



    Vanir:

    Vanir are something between full gods and mortals. As close to being gods as it makes little difference to mortals. The trick is that while Vanir are powerful, swift and strong beyond anything that normal mortals can comprehend easily, they are fairly limited in the scope of their "Godlike powers." In general, a Vanir is able to affect only one sphere of influence in an area, often fertility, and they are bound by an eternal hunger for sacrifice to power their magics.

    Vanir is an acquired template that can be added to any creature with an Intelligence score of at least 8 and the ability to speak a mortal tongue.

    Type/Size: the Creature's type and size remain unchanged. It gains the Divine subtype.

    Hit Dice: The Vanir receives maximum hp for each hit dice they possess.

    Defence: A Vanir gains a +1 Luck bonus per 3 HD it possesses on Defence

    Attack: A Vanir retains its original attack forms and gains a +1 Luck bonus per 3 HD it possesses on all attack and damage rolls.

    Special Attacks: The Vanir retains the special attacks of the base creature and Gains the Awesome Blow feat as a special ability, ignoring the prerequisites, representing their baffling strength.

    Special Qualities: A Vanir retains the Special Qualities of the base creature and gains the following:
    Divine: The Divine subtype renders the owner immortal by conventional measures, as long as she gains at least one point of potence per year. Immortal creatures cannot be subjected to death spells and receive two saves against all mortal magics [those cast by those without the Divine subtype]. In addition, Divine creatures can ignore the Symbolic Immunity of other gods by lowering their own...admittedly, a risky option...

    Symbolic Immunity: All Vanir are nigh indestructable except for certain weapons. They gain DR 10 per 5 HD or part thereof and blanket Energy Resistance equal to twice their DR. These resistances can only be negated by a specific material [which may be used as a material component]. For instance, a Vanir Dryad may be vulnerable only to her own oak tree; wood for weapons and leaves as material components...

    Region: A Vanir's ability to affect the region around it is limited by geography. This is limited by the number of towns the Vanir can affect. Divide its HD by 5 and round up. This is it's Vanir rank. A Vanir may affect up to the square of its rank [rank x rank] in towns, the total population of which cannot excees the cube of their rank x 1000 [rank x rank x rank x 1000].

    Abilities: +2 to any two stats, +4 to Charisma

    Feats: Vanir gain Awesome Blow as a bonus feat.

    Epic Feats: Within their realm, Vanir benefit fron the feat Epic Reputation.

    Environment: As base creature

    Challenge Rating: +1, +1 per Divine ability.

    Alignment: Usually Lawful [OCD level habits and ritualism], rarely Good

    Special: In addition, a Vanir gains one of the following powers per rank she possesses. A Vanir gains Potence by accepting sacrifices in a specific format [Knowledge (Religion) DC 15 + HD reveals how to gain the favour of a specific Vanir] and all powers have a passive and Potence driven component. Starving Vanir have been known to arrange sacrifices directly...
    Fecund Realm: The Vanir is a power of the earth and growth, allowing it to spread or deny plenty at its whim.
    Passive: While unable to control the weather or anything else directly, the Vanir's Region adapts to their mood. When they are happy, flowers bloom, leaves are green and animals are docile. Cha based chechs made to instill positive emotions gain a +2 Divinebonus per rank of the Vanir and Random encounters drop to 5% per hour/day. When negative emotions reign, he shadows are darker, the animals seem cruel or non-existant and colours fade. Random encounter frequency doubles and checks to create negative emotions gain a +2 Divine bonus per rank of the angry Vanir.
    Potence: At the cost of one Potence, the Vanir can bless the area with great fertility. animals breed profusely, doubling their numbers or crops produce double their normal yield. This taxes the area, however, and if this blessing is withdrawn, the land produces only half yield for 3 years.

    Deathly Hallowed [Dharkini]:The Vanir is a minor power of death; the reaper or perhaps a minor psychopomp. She can control death and the dead.
    Passive: The Vanir's touch is deathly in and of itself, inflicting a Wound [one negative level] with each successful attack, including those made with weapons. In addition, undead within 60ft obey the commands of the Vanir with no save, much like the Command Undead clerical power.
    Potence: At the cost of a point of Potence, the Vanir can recall one being from the depths of death and restore them to life, whether they wish it or not. The target is restored to full hp, though they are restored in their remains, which is an issue for those who were buried.

    Gentle Mistress: Named because most Vanir of healing of female, this power allows a Vanir to halt disease, heal wounds and cancel poison.
    Passive: Mere contact with a Vanir with this ability grants Fast Healing 1 for 20 rounds [as per the spell Vigour] and as a Standard action, the Vanir can remove any natural affliction from the target including Disease, Ability Damage and Poison, though not negative levels or Ability Drain.
    Potence: By spending a point of Potence as a Full action, the Vanir can cure all aliments and damage on the target, basically restoring them to factory defaults. This includes neutralising curses, curing poison, disease, all ability score reductions and all negative levels and conditions. In addition, the target becomes an anti-carrier for any diseases they possessed at the time, meaning that anyone they touch from that point on becomes immune to those diseases [this is how a minor goddess of healing would go about curing a plague].

    Wise Elder: Kung Fu is as much an art of combat as it is a path to inner enlightenment. What then but a Vanir could be seen as the one standing at the end of such a dual existence?
    Passive: A Vanir has the Martial Study; Grand Master feat even if it does not normally qualify for it and is treated as if having the ranks in Martial Lore necessary for taking the feat. (These virtual ranks only count towards Manuevers known, not any actual checks with the skill.) Additionally any mortal who trains under the Vanir requires only one and a half months of training to acquire the Martial Study; Novice feat and requires one less rank in Martial Lore to take Martial feats.
    Potence: At the cost of one Potence a Vanir may unlock the true potential hidden within every mortal. As a 10 minute action [training montage] that requires contact with the intended recipient of this effect, the Vanir grants the mortal the Martial Study; Master feat even if they don't qualify and gives them a permanent +2 increase to their Str, Dex and Con scores.

    Soul of the Storm: The Vanir controls the local storms, usually in an area that is plagued greatly by such things. Many a tall mountain or tiny, stormwracked isle is home so such a being.
    Passive: The area of the Vanir's Region is prone to storms. As a Standard action, the Vanir can call one up from nothing after a 5 round delay. These storms include high winds [30mph+] and heavy rain, plus thunder and lightning. In winter, the natural storms are destructive and riddled with hailstones. In addition, the Vanir adds +1d6 Lightning damage to its melee attacks per Vanir Rank and may cast Gust of Wind at will as a Spell-like ability.
    Potence: At the cost of a point of Potence, the Vanir can ward an area from storms for an entire year, with the exception of those he calls himself.

    Beauty of the Sun: The Vanir is the essence of life and beauty. It is difficult to deny someone so beautiful anything.
    Passive: The Vanir's Beauty grants it a +7 bonus on all Charisma based skill checks and sheds light rather like the sun, though only as powerfully as a bonfire. As a Standard action, he can dim this down to the light of a candle or intensify it to be bright enough to cause blindness to everyone within 60ft [Save DC 10 + 1/2 HD + Rank + Charisma]. The blindness it causes lasts for about an hour.
    Potence: The sun is the source of all energy and nutrition. By spending a point of Potence, the Vanir can double the nutrition value of all vegetation in the Vanir's Region. While this remains in effect, the Vanir may will, as a free action, any fruit consumed in his Region to heal one hit point for the eater. As this is so valuable to him, the Vanir may well relocate if his sacrifice is not given that year.


    Name:Description
    Passive:
    Potence:

    Well...this what i needed help with...
    Last edited by Mulletmanalive; 2011-01-25 at 05:25 PM.
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    Default Re: Bringing Gods down a notch...[3.5 and derivatives]

    I actually had a design for what I called a "Little God" awhile back. It was intended for use in a unique style of campaign I once ran, where the players were gestalt and were demigods of something highly specific, and the rest of the world was normal and boring.

    The "Little God" Template is basically as follows:
    -Max HP on all HD.
    -A sacred (or profane, alignment depending) bonus equal to 1/3 HD to basically everything (saves, attacks, skills, even hp/level; is not retroactive).
    -Around 3 unique special ability, depending on the demigod's nature. For instance, we had a demigod of thunder and lightning (basically he was Thor). He had the power to infuse anything he wielded with sonic and electric damage, he could throw his weaponry with lightning speed and a thunderous roar, and he had some limited control over storms and weather.
    -No CR or LA change, since the idea was that the Little Gods were exclusively PCs.

    I don't think it's what you wanted, but it's what we used, and it was pretty fun.

    All that I say applies only to myself. You author your own actions and choices. I cannot and will not be responsible for you, nor are you for me, regardless of situation or circumstance.

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    Default Re: Bringing Gods down a notch...[3.5 and derivatives]

    Well, that is more or less what the eventual template will be like.

    My point of interest is specifically creating a bunch of those unique abilities that you mention to allow quick pick and mixing.
    Mine is not so much a Peter Pan Complex as a Peter Pan Doom Fortress and Underground LairTM!
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    Default Re: Bringing Gods down a notch...[3.5 and derivatives]

    Problem is, PrC's allow for most of it already. this Thor guy made by arguskos could have been a stormlord ruled to be supplying his own magic and not dependent on an another source.

    In short it comes to this: "lesser gods" are just them high level guys who, by rules of what is out there and not what you face (because you will always face the strong guys in the game. if you face commoners you probably are one, and not a world-renowned adventurer...), are damn rare and most people not only have no understanding of how they are capable of doing what they do, they also have no way to match up to them.

    Remember-the fact your commoner does not know you can gain XP and level up means that as far he understands-its not that adventurers and villains become extraordinary because of what they do, is that they do it because they are extraordinary.

    And with all respect-if a level 14 sorcerer hangs around a bunch of level 1-5 NPC class guys, they WILL think of him as a demigod or something, capable not only to cast odd magic, but is also a better swordsman then anyone on the town guard and seem to take a silly amount of punishment that will have killed and destroyed the remains of most people in an instant and stand still like nothing happened.

    Naturally around big citys where lots of these guys are around the effect will be reduced, but hi-even being a level 10 knight (tier 5) means you can fight off pretty much the entire town watch simultaneously during a conversion with a friend over lunch without getting off your seat. throw a guy like that in a real medieval town and see him become worshiped for being blessed by god in a few days.

    In short-you need nothing new, the system if actually build directly for that. high level guys are, by definition, a rare event. even if you conclude that for every 4 guys you got 1 of a level higher (and its a lot less then that) then for 20000 level 1s you got 5000 level 2, a 1250 level 3, 312 level 4, 78 level 5, 19 level 6, 4 level 7 and a single level 8...
    Yea, I can see that level 15 necromancer that terrorizes the 3000ish population countryside being though of as some sort of a demigod of death-don't you?


    Quote Originally Posted by Cormag81 View Post
    2117: No matter how good a debater I am out of character there is no way to logically get out of falling after your paladin kills his patron god.

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    Default Re: Bringing Gods down a notch...[3.5 and derivatives]

    Quote Originally Posted by boomwolf View Post
    Problem is, PrC's allow for most of it already. this Thor guy made by arguskos could have been a stormlord ruled to be supplying his own magic and not dependent on an another source.
    At low level, no, they can't be.

    The concept here, if you check the OP again, is for an E6 campaign. For a normal game, your criticisms are well-founded and quite true, but in E6, they don't matter, due to lack of low-level options. While yes, a level 10 Conjurer is going to look like a demigod or something to a Commoner 1, that's not the point of this thread.

    All that I say applies only to myself. You author your own actions and choices. I cannot and will not be responsible for you, nor are you for me, regardless of situation or circumstance.

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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Bringing Gods down a notch...[3.5 and derivatives]

    I thought the general consensus was that Gods were incredibly underpowered for their CR as written.

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    Default Re: Bringing Gods down a notch...[3.5 and derivatives]

    I like the idea of this little endeavor. I can't remember the exact title, but there was a third party book that gave rules and some samples for little gods, and even how to be clerics of them. Nothing fancy, really; basically just things like elementals or fey with some extra bells and whistles. I'll see what I can dig up.
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    Default Re: Bringing Gods down a notch...[3.5 and derivatives]

    Quote Originally Posted by arguskos View Post
    At low level, no, they can't be.

    The concept here, if you check the OP again, is for an E6 campaign. For a normal game, your criticisms are well-founded and quite true, but in E6, they don't matter, due to lack of low-level options. While yes, a level 10 Conjurer is going to look like a demigod or something to a Commoner 1, that's not the point of this thread.
    Well I be damned, I make a perfect argument, only to find I missed a crucial point in the topic.

    I think I'll go cry myself to sleep now.


    EDIT: maybe just make demigods in E6 be an E6 gestalt? (not knowing E6 well enough to know the mechanics behind this.)
    Last edited by boomwolf; 2010-11-19 at 05:16 PM.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cormag81 View Post
    2117: No matter how good a debater I am out of character there is no way to logically get out of falling after your paladin kills his patron god.

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    Default Re: Bringing Gods down a notch...[3.5 and derivatives]

    Quote Originally Posted by boomwolf View Post
    Well I be damned, I make a perfect argument, only to find I missed a crucial point in the topic.

    I think I'll go cry myself to sleep now.
    Nah, 'sall good dude. Your point is well taken, and a very good one that's often overlooked (ie. the nature of powerful adventurers on the political and social landscape), just in E6 all of that changes.

    All that I say applies only to myself. You author your own actions and choices. I cannot and will not be responsible for you, nor are you for me, regardless of situation or circumstance.

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    Default Re: Bringing Gods down a notch...[3.5 and derivatives]

    Right, well finally shrugging off Boomwolf's seeming tirade [I don't care if it was meant that way, it did put me off this], this is the working model:

    I like the word for the name and it's just that, really. Can't find another word meaning "lesser/local deity" that isn't sanskrit and difficult to pronounce.

    Vanir:

    Vanir are something between full gods and mortals. As close to being gods as it makes little difference to mortals. The trick is that while Vanir are powerful, swift and strong beyond anything that normal mortals can comprehend easily, they are fairly limited in the scope of their "Godlike powers." In general, a Vanir is able to affect only one sphere of influence in an area, often fertility, and they are bound by an eternal hunger for sacrifice to power their magics.

    Vanir is an acquired template that can be added to any creature with an Intelligence score of at least 8 and the ability to speak a mortal tongue.

    Type/Size: the Creature's type and size remain unchanged. It gains the Divine subtype.

    Hit Dice: The Vanir receives maximum hp for each hit dice they possess.

    Defence: A Vanir gains a +1 Luck bonus per 3 HD it possesses on Defence

    Attack: A Vanir retains its original attack forms and gains a +1 Divine bonus per 3 HD it possesses on all attack and damage rolls.

    Special Attacks: The Vanir retains the special attacks of the base creature and Gains the Awesome Blow feat as a special ability, ignoring the prerequisites, representing their baffling strength.

    Special Qualities: A Vanir retains the Special Qualities of the base creature and gains the following:
    Divine: The Divine subtype renders the owner immortal by conventional measures, as long as she gains at least one point of potence per year. Immortal creatures cannot be subjected to death spells and receive two saves against all mortal magics [those cast by those without the Divine subtype]. In addition, Divine creatures can ignore the Symbolic Immunity of other gods by lowering their own...admittedly, a risky option...

    Symbolic Immunity: All Vanir are nigh indestructable except for certain weapons. They gain DR 10 per 5 HD or part thereof and blanket Energy Resistance equal to twice their DR. These resistances can only be negated by a specific material [which may be used as a material component]. For instance, a Vanir Dryad may be vulnerable only to her own oak tree; wood for weapons and leaves as material components...

    Region: A Vanir's ability to affect the region around it is limited by geography. This is limited by the number of towns the Vanir can affect. Divide its HD by 5 and round up. This is it's Vanir rank. A Vanir may affect up to the square of its rank [rank x rank] in towns, the total population of which cannot excees the cube of their rank x 1000 [rank x rank x rank x 1000].

    Abilities: +2 to any two stats, +4 to Charisma

    Feats: Vanir gain Awesome Blow as a bonus feat.

    Epic Feats: Within their realm, Vanir benefit fron the feat Epic Reputation.

    Environment: As base creature

    Challenge Rating: +1, +1 per Divine ability.

    Alignment: Usually Lawful [OCD level habits and ritualism], rarely Good

    Special: In addition, a Vanir gains one of the following powers per rank she possesses. A Vanir gains Potence by accepting sacrifices in a specific format [Knowledge (Religion) DC 15 + HD reveals how to gain the favour of a specific Vanir] and all powers have a passive and Potence driven component. Starving Vanir have been known to arrange sacrifices directly...
    Fecund Realm: The Vanir is a power of the earth and growth, allowing it to spread or deny plenty at its whim.
    Passive: While unable to control the weather or anything else directly, the Vanir's Region adapts to their mood. When they are happy, flowers bloom, leaves are green and animals are docile. Cha based chechs made to instill positive emotions gain a +2 Divinebonus per rank of the Vanir and Random encounters drop to 5% per hour/day. When negative emotions reign, he shadows are darker, the animals seem cruel or non-existant and colours fade. Random encounter frequency doubles and checks to create negative emotions gain a +2 Divine bonus per rank of the angry Vanir.
    Potence: At the cost of one Potence, the Vanir can bless the area with great fertility. animals breed profusely, doubling their numbers or crops produce double their normal yield. This taxes the area, however, and if this blessing is withdrawn, the land produces only half yield for 3 years.

    Deathly Hallowed [Dharkini]:The Vanir is a minor power of death; the reaper or perhaps a minor psychopomp. She can control death and the dead.
    Passive: The Vanir's touch is deathly in and of itself, inflicting a Wound [one negative level] with each successful attack, including those made with weapons. In addition, undead within 60ft obey the commands of the Vanir with no save, much like the Command Undead clerical power.
    Potence: At the cost of a point of Potence, the Vanir can recall one being from the depths of death and restore them to life, whether they wish it or not. The target is restored to full hp, though they are restored in their remains, which is an issue for those who were buried.

    Gentle Mistress: Named because most Vanir of healing of female, this power allows a Vanir to halt disease, heal wounds and cancel poison.
    Passive: Mere contact with a Vanir with this ability grants Fast Healing 1 for 20 rounds [as per the spell Vigour] and as a Standard action, the Vanir can remove any natural affliction from the target including Disease, Ability Damage and Poison, though not negative levels or Ability Drain.
    Potence: By spending a point of Potence as a Full action, the Vanir can cure all aliments and damage on the target, basically restoring them to factory defaults. This includes neutralising curses, curing poison, disease, all ability score reductions and all negative levels and conditions. In addition, the target becomes an anti-carrier for any diseases they possessed at the time, meaning that anyone they touch from that point on becomes immune to those diseases [this is how a minor goddess of healing would go about curing a plague].

    Wise Elder: Kung Fu is as much an art of combat as it is a path to inner enlightenment. What then but a Vanir could be seen as the one standing at the end of such a dual existence?
    Passive: A Vanir has the Martial Study; Grand Master feat even if it does not normally qualify for it and is treated as if having the ranks in Martial Lore necessary for taking the feat. (These virtual ranks only count towards Manuevers known, not any actual checks with the skill.) Additionally any mortal who trains under the Vanir requires only one and a half months of training to acquire the Martial Study; Novice feat and requires one less rank in Martial Lore to take Martial feats.
    Potence: At the cost of one Potence a Vanir may unlock the true potential hidden within every mortal. As a 10 minute action [training montage] that requires contact with the intended recipient of this effect, the Vanir grants the mortal the Martial Study; Master feat even if they don't qualify and gives them a permanent +2 increase to their Str, Dex and Con scores.

    Soul of the Storm: The Vanir controls the local storms, usually in an area that is plagued greatly by such things. Many a tall mountain or tiny, stormwracked isle is home so such a being.
    Passive: The area of the Vanir's Region is prone to storms. As a Standard action, the Vanir can call one up from nothing after a 5 round delay. These storms include high winds [30mph+] and heavy rain, plus thunder and lightning. In winter, the natural storms are destructive and riddled with hailstones. In addition, the Vanir adds +1d6 Lightning damage to its melee attacks per Vanir Rank and may cast Gust of Wind at will as a Spell-like ability.
    Potence: At the cost of a point of Potence, the Vanir can ward an area from storms for an entire year, with the exception of those he calls himself.

    Beauty of the Sun: The Vanir is the essence of life and beauty. It is difficult to deny someone so beautiful anything.
    Passive: The Vanir's Beauty grants it a +7 bonus on all Charisma based skill checks and sheds light rather like the sun, though only as powerfully as a bonfire. As a Standard action, he can dim this down to the light of a candle or intensify it to be bright enough to cause blindness to everyone within 60ft [Save DC 10 + 1/2 HD + Rank + Charisma]. The blindness it causes lasts for about an hour.
    Potence: The sun is the source of all energy and nutrition. By spending a point of Potence, the Vanir can double the nutrition value of all vegetation in the Vanir's Region. While this remains in effect, the Vanir may will, as a free action, any fruit consumed in his Region to heal one hit point for the eater. As this is so valuable to him, the Vanir may well relocate if his sacrifice is not given that year.


    Name:Description
    Passive:
    Potence:

    Well...this what i needed help with...
    Last edited by Mulletmanalive; 2010-12-05 at 05:54 PM.
    Mine is not so much a Peter Pan Complex as a Peter Pan Doom Fortress and Underground LairTM!
    Fae-o-matic Want a fae from folklore stated? Give me the lore and I'll do it for you!
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    Default Re: Bringing Gods down a notch...[3.5 and derivatives]

    Looking just at the Symbolic Immunity right now with this:

    Taking a creature with 20 HD (I know this is meant for E6 and I'm not sure if creatures with that many HD exist in E6 since I've never played) it would have DR 40/Source and Energy Resistance 100. Now, the DR is on par with what Deities are seen with normally but isn't Resistance that high kind of odd? I mean, wouldn't that translate to immunity?

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    Default Re: Bringing Gods down a notch...[3.5 and derivatives]

    Yes, but at anything up to about 60, it's still defeatable with magic and there are effects around that half resistances and such.

    I'm kind of one to play up DR and allow the characters to meet the boss early on and discover that their "normal" plan will require some rethinking.

    tbh, DR 40 isn't all that hard to exceed with a power charger or sneak attacker of doom but it's enough to make it seem like charging is a waste of time
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    Default Re: Bringing Gods down a notch...[3.5 and derivatives]

    Ok, next line of questioning:

    - What is a "Mortal tongue"?
    - What does the Divine Subtype grant?
    - Why are they getting luck bonuses and not Divine bonuses (I believe that was the name) like Deities normally get?
    - What exactly does the Region special quality do?
    - You're still working on the specific powers a Vanir gets correct?

    Edit: Thought of some more.

    - When you say "blanket Energy Resistance" does that include Force, Positive and Negative? What about untyped energy like a Warlock's Eldritch blast?

    - Why does the Resistance scale so much faster and higher than the DR?
    Last edited by Tanuki Tales; 2010-11-30 at 10:34 PM.

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    Default Re: Bringing Gods down a notch...[3.5 and derivatives]

    For the specials, a few general ones. I will work on more later.

    Booming Voice:
    The Vanir may yell and deafen all within 20ft per HD for 1 round per two HD, the Fort DC is 10+1/2 HD+Con or Cha mod

    Blinding Radiance:

    The Vanir glows bright, illuminating a 100ft radius per 5HD and blinding any within 5ft per 10HD if they fail a Fort save

    Sky Dancer:

    The Vanir gains a +3 sacred to Balance, Jump, and Tumble per HD

    Walk the Clouds:

    The Vanir may walk on mists, smokes, or clouds.

    Manipulator:

    The Vanir gains a +2 sacred bonus to Bluff and Sense Motive per HD

    Billows of Smoke

    The Vanir is surrounded by an Obscuring mist at will
    Having trouble writing up hard stat blocks but I'm doing a lot of sharing ideas and soft mechanics lately.

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    Default Re: Bringing Gods down a notch...[3.5 and derivatives]

    Just wanted to mention that I am very interested in this. Honestly, I'm still probably going to use the Deities and Demigods versions for actual deities, but I might use these templates for godly creatures.

    Also, what exactly does the Divine subtype do, besides signify they are gods?
    Last edited by LOTRfan; 2010-12-01 at 12:02 AM.
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    Default Re: Bringing Gods down a notch...[3.5 and derivatives]

    I'm of the same mind as LOTRfan personally.

    Magic Blooded
    The Vanir casts as a Sorcerer of 1/2 HD (This can be taken twice for full casting)


    Blessing Bearer
    The Vanir casts as a Cleric of 1/2 HD (This can be taken twice for full casting)


    Favors of the Earth
    The Vanir casts as a Druid of 1/2 HD (This can be taken twice for full casting)


    Untapped Thought
    The Vanir manifests as a Psion of 1/2 HD (This can be taken twice for full manifesting)


    Sublime Warrior
    The Vanir initiates as a Warblade of 1/2 HD (This can be taken twice for full progression)


    Dreamer
    The Vanir may cast dream and nightmare at will


    A few more.
    Having trouble writing up hard stat blocks but I'm doing a lot of sharing ideas and soft mechanics lately.

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    Default Re: Bringing Gods down a notch...[3.5 and derivatives]

    Quote Originally Posted by Bendraesar View Post
    Ok, next line of questioning:

    - What is a "Mortal tongue"?
    - What does the Divine Subtype grant?
    - Why are they getting luck bonuses and not Divine bonuses (I believe that was the name) like Deities normally get?
    - What exactly does the Region special quality do?
    - You're still working on the specific powers a Vanir gets correct?

    Edit: Thought of some more.

    - When you say "blanket Energy Resistance" does that include Force, Positive and Negative? What about untyped energy like a Warlock's Eldritch blast?

    - Why does the Resistance scale so much faster and higher than the DR?
    in order:
    1. Mortal tongue seemed obvious enough, but it was intended to mean anything other than planar specific languages: Aquan, Avian, Terran, Ignian, Celestial, Infernal and Abysal wouldn't cut it [can't think of any others off hand] You need common or dwarven or something or you're not going to be able to gather worshipers.
    2. I'll be able to answer that whenever i get to it. Bear in mind, a subtype doesn't necessarily entail anything save that certain spells can affect them. At bear minimum, it would probably equal a long life [x5 ish]
    3. Mostly because I copied Zeta-Kai's suggestion. I hadn't intended to give them anything offensively, though i was going to combine them with the "solo" template i've already made as a rule.
    4. My intention is for the powers to do specific godly things: bring rains, calm storms, increase fecundity, spread fire, cause calamity, make people horny etc and the Region is the limits of a Vanir's area of effect for that.
    5. Yes, yes I am. Got one about ready to go, infact...
    6. Yes, that's all energy types. No exceptions, including energy that is resisted by "generic energy resistance" which applies to Helfire and Warlock blasts.
    7. Wizard powers get pretty high pretty fast and i was aiming to equal the normal maximum yield of those. My original thought was "double the DR" and I could change it back... [note that the goal was to make the thing unfeasable to kill under normal circumstances rather than just a drudge, hence why there is a weakness in the Energy resistance, which to my knowledge, is unheard of.


    Quote Originally Posted by LOTRfan View Post
    Just wanted to mention that I am very interested in this. Honestly, I'm still probably going to use the Deities and Demigods versions for actual deities, but I might use these templates for godly creatures.

    Also, what exactly does the Divine subtype do, besides signify they are gods?
    It wasn't really intended for big hitters, but some of the things they've chaulked up in Deities and Demigods have powers way beyond what they're described as having [the legendary Heracles is more powerful than a lot of the stories about Baldur [save the latter's impervious skin], for instance, who is a higher ranked god within his pantheon and so got to be munchier in the book.]

    As to the subtype, nothing yet, I'll let you know if it needs to do anything. Probably longevity though.

    @The Mentalist: Nice basic power but I was intending on something a little different. I'm going to post my first example and see if we can't adapt some of your suggestions into primary/passive components [yours are more "godlike" in modern terms than reasons to worship and make sacrifices to them].
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    Default Re: Bringing Gods down a notch...[3.5 and derivatives]

    That seems roughly doable.

    They're more built as blessing factories? Something that can heal your party up for the right price or favor? (among other things of course)

    How's this

    Living Grace

    The Vanir may cast Cure Moderate Wounds at will

    Potence: At the cost of one potence point the Vanir may cast Raise Dead

    That more what you're looking for? If so I'll be back with more.
    Having trouble writing up hard stat blocks but I'm doing a lot of sharing ideas and soft mechanics lately.

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    Default Re: Bringing Gods down a notch...[3.5 and derivatives]

    If they were a god of healing or a fountain spirit, that would be the kind of thing, yeah.

    Though I'd say something like curing disease rather than healing damage. Maybe give them the ability to cast Heal once a week in the passive power.

    I'm thinking a Vanir of Fortune
    Maybe War
    Feasting
    Commerce
    River spirit?
    Thunder/storms...kind of thing you'd pray to for rain
    Fire
    Vanir of the winds?
    Death...

    Some of them might have more generic abilities like spellcasting and so on, especially at high level.
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    Default Re: Bringing Gods down a notch...[3.5 and derivatives]

    Maybe one of Martial Wisdom? I'm just thinking of how some myths (either real world or fictional) claim that Kung fu was taught to man by the gods and it'd be neat to have a Vanir of that.

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    Default Re: Bringing Gods down a notch...[3.5 and derivatives]

    Quote Originally Posted by Bendraesar View Post
    Maybe one of Martial Wisdom? I'm just thinking of how some myths (either real world or fictional) claim that Kung fu was taught to man by the gods and it'd be neat to have a Vanir of that.
    Small world...you've reminded me of a previous idea. This is a pretty perfect way of doing that. Thanks!
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    Default Re: Bringing Gods down a notch...[3.5 and derivatives]

    How about the following blessing(s)

    Mentor of Nature
    Passive: The Vanir may give any creature in it's realm a single level in Druid as long as it wishes. This bonus may only be given once per Vanir at a time.
    Potence: The Vanir may spend a Potence point to give a single creature a level in Druid per divine rank. This requires one month of training per level. This may only be given once.

    Can be re-skinned for Fighter, Cleric, Mage, whatevers. It fits the stories of everyone in a region being trained by a quasi-divine master along with that same quasi-divine mentor taking on an apprentice (potence point ability)
    Having trouble writing up hard stat blocks but I'm doing a lot of sharing ideas and soft mechanics lately.

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    Default Re: Bringing Gods down a notch...[3.5 and derivatives]

    Right, i've put the healing ability up, along with one that allows the Vanir to command the forces of death.

    I'm not sure how to best do the "mentor" thing. Possibly just allowing people to study with them as a Passive, along with a little bit of class ability and the ability to instantly load up a character with "unlocked potential" exactly like The Mentalist's suggestion...

    Damn, now i'm thinking of big green fat dudes on tall towers!
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    Default Re: Bringing Gods down a notch...[3.5 and derivatives]

    Alright, maybe it'll be something like this?

    Wise Elder: Kung Fu is as much an art of combat as it is a path to inner enlightenment. What then but a Vanir could be seen as the one standing at the end of such a dual existence?
    Passive: A Vanir has the Martial Study; Grand Master feat even if it does not normally qualify for it and is treated as if having the ranks in Martial Lore necessary for taking the feat. (These virtual ranks only count towards Manuevers known, not any actual checks with the skill.) Additionally any mortal who trains under the Vanir requires only one and a half months of training to acquire the Martial Study; Novice feat and requires one less rank in Martial Lore to take Martial feats.
    Potence: At the cost of one Potence a Vanir may unlock the true potential hidden within every mortal. As a full round action that requires contact with the intended recipient of this effect, the Vanir grants the mortal the Martial Study; Master feat even if they don't qualify and gives them a permanent +2 increase to their Str, Dex and Con scores.
    Last edited by Tanuki Tales; 2010-12-04 at 05:16 PM.

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    Default Re: Bringing Gods down a notch...[3.5 and derivatives]

    Quote Originally Posted by Bendraesar View Post
    Wise Elder: Kung Fu is as much an art of combat as it is a path to inner enlightenment. What then but a Vanir could be seen as the one standing at the end of such a dual existence?
    Passive: A Vanir has the Martial Study; Grand Master feat even if it does not normally qualify for it and is treated as if having the ranks in Martial Lore necessary for taking the feat. (These virtual ranks only count towards Manuevers known, not any actual checks with the skill.) Additionally any mortal who trains under the Vanir requires only one and a half months of training to acquire the Martial Study; Novice feat and requires one less rank in Martial Lore to take Martial feats.
    Potence: At the cost of one Potence a Vanir may unlock the true potential hidden within every mortal. As a 10 minute training montage action that requires contact with the intended recipient of this effect, the Vanir grants the mortal the Martial Study; Master feat even if they don't qualify and gives them a permanent +2 increase to their Str, Dex and Con scores.
    Fixed that for flavour but it's freakin' perfect

    Perfect!
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    Default Re: Bringing Gods down a notch...[3.5 and derivatives]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
    Fixed that for flavour but it's freakin' perfect

    Perfect!
    Yay! I contributed! >w<

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    Default Re: Bringing Gods down a notch...[3.5 and derivatives]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
    If it helps, assume that this is intended for E6 play...
    I've been considerign running an E6 world, with the players as gods. Essentially, being a god gets you divine rank, and lets you level past 6. Divine rank grants no salient divine abilities (instead the characters just get higher level class abilities). I'd probably tweak a few other things to tone them down (domain spells of only levels you could cast at you level, for instance, and resistance rather than immunity to a few things). A level 12 character with divine rank 6 is rediculously powerful in E6, but can't remake reality like their epic level counterparts.

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    Default Re: Bringing Gods down a notch...[3.5 and derivatives]

    {Scrubbed}
    Last edited by The Glyphstone; 2010-12-05 at 03:35 PM.

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    Default Re: Bringing Gods down a notch...[3.5 and derivatives]

    Quote Originally Posted by RedSun View Post
    {Scrubbed}
    Right...

    Thanks for that I suppose.

    Moving on.
    Last edited by The Glyphstone; 2010-12-05 at 03:36 PM.
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    Default Re: Bringing Gods down a notch...[3.5 and derivatives]

    Bampf... Baby Thor sorted.

    I've been trying to come up with different ideas for this kind of thing...I guess I'm going to have to go plundering other pantheons...

    Would a Wish or Miracle be too powerful for a Potence ability? Perhaps if you could only take it with a prerequisite?
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