Knowladge checks

[bloodtide]

The information gained from a Knowledge skill check came up in my game again. The basic question is, how much information should a knowledge check give you?

I often like to go with one knowledge check equals you get to ask the DM one question. This way the player simply gets the exact information they want. Often the player just wants combat information, so it just slows down the game if the DM wastes the time to give them fluff.

But how does everyone else do it? Do you read off the whole monster page description for a single Knowledge check? What is the limit on the information?
Even the later 3E books, that have Knowledge check charts, do not follow the same format.


Do you automatically tell the player the monsters D&D type?

What about templates? Can a character tell if a monster has a template or not? And if they do, can they tell if the creatures type has changed?

[Christopher K.]

Generally, when someone wants to do a knowledge check at my table, they get to ask me a question, roll a d20, and based on the total check I tell them what their character would know, even if it isn't true. I also give them an additional sentence that could hint at more information they want but not outright tell them.

[Keld Denar]

But how does everyone else do it? Do you read off the whole monster page description for a single Knowledge check? What is the limit on the information?
Even the later 3E books, that have Knowledge check charts, do not follow the same format.

The way we did this in Living Greyhawk is that if you beat the creatures DC, you knew its name and type. For each 5 points past the DC you beat, you, the player, got to pick information. If you didn't particularly care, the DM would just give you random bits of info from it's stat block until you got all of the bits your roll allowed you to get. Typically spellcasters would ask for things like SR and elemental resistances, while melee types with decent knowledge skills would ask about DR, regen, and nasty special attacks they might be experiencing.

Do you automatically tell the player the monsters D&D type?

Not unless they beat the check. I just ask for a given check. You CAN technically metagame this a bit (if its a Know: Dungeoneering check, its an aberration, naturally, but not all Know: Planes are devils...some are demons/other)

What about templates? Can a character tell if a monster has a template or not? And if they do, can they tell if the creatures type has changed?

If the check changes the creature type, yes. Some, like Pseudonatural, change creature type from X to Aberration. This is also visibly obvious. If the PCs encounter a half-fiend dire chicken, it's gonna have flaming red eyes, spikes protruding from it's feathers, and other demon-esque features. If its relevant, and they made the knowledge check, they should get that info.

[bloodtide]

The way we did this in Living Greyhawk is that if you beat the creatures DC, you knew its name and type. For each 5 points past the DC you beat, you, the player, got to pick information.

Make the check scale, the higher the roll, the more information.

Typically spellcasters would ask for things like SR and elemental resistances, while melee types with decent knowledge skills would ask about DR, regen, and nasty special attacks they might be experiencing.

The question here is, do you tell the player the game information? Do you say 'Monster X has a SR of 30' or do you just say 'it is resistant to magic' or such.

Do you say it has regeneration 10 or just say it can regenerate?



The wrinkle here is metagaming. This hard for a lot of players to 'pretend' they don't know something. So if you tell the player the SR is 30, and they know the character can't beat that, then 'suddenly' the character spellcaster just 'randomly decides' that they 'just don't feel' like casting any spells at the monster.

Where as if you just tell them it's 'high', they will think it can be anything from 20-30, and will often still take the chance.

Worst of all might be metagame stacking. The player knows they need a 30, so they use an item, spell or whatever to get the exact boost needed. But with out the number of the SR, they would just guess as what boost to use.

[Eldariel]

Depends on the monster. Just barely passing the check gives you basic knowledge like its obvious abilities (if it's strong, fast, whether it has an obviously thick skin, flight, any overbearing resistances like Resistance from Fire, et cetera). Generally I give information relevant to character's expertise first.

A mage might know of fiends' spell resistance or golems' magic immunity while a fighter would be more like to be aware of things like AC, damage reduction and HP. Elementalist might know energy resistances and such more accurately while a controller might be more aware of the saves. And if you exceed the base DC sufficiently, you'll eventually get all the information.


Abilities defining creatures like Basilisks' stone gaze or Thoqquas' ability to melt rock I generally give with the minimum DC. I generally give the monster's statblock at DC +10 (though of course, I rarely use vanilla creatures so I mostly tell them as much information as they could have).

[Keld Denar]

I don't have a problem giving or getting exact numerical information from a metagame PoV. Stat-blocks themselves are a wholely metagame construct.

Plus, I think it rewards players for choosing certain options. My 15th level wizard has Arcane Mastery (take 10 on CL checks), and the Spell Power High Arcana ability twice specifically so he can override SR without trying. He specializes in being able to overcome a given SR, and knows exactly what power level he can trump with this ability. My DM just gives me SR numbers when I make my check so I know whether or not I can take 10. In game, it makes sense because that what he DOES. Out of game, it makes it much easier because for most things, I don't have to roll SR if I make my knowledge check, so it speeds things up a tiny bit. It has a small benefit, and doesn't detract from RP, and thus isn't really a bad thing.

[Zeta Kai]

Quick Quiz: How many A's are there in KNOWLEDGE?

[Fuzzie Fuzz]

Quick Quiz: How many A's are there in KNOWLEDGE?

It looks like someone failed their Knowladge(Spelling) check...

[Temotei]

It looks like someone failed their Knowladge(Spelling) check...

Or their Spot check on proofreading, but that doesn't pertain to the discussion, I guess.

In Play-by-Post, I let the players ask as many questions as they like. I usually just put Knowledge check results in spoilers, like so:

Knowledge (dungeoneering) [DC 12]:

Spoiler

Show

It's a choker. These nasty little beasts like to, as their name suggests, choke, as you've learned in the past, either from scholarly finds or from experience. Chokers are quick and sneaky--stay far away or beat it down quickly. As always, teamwork makes the dream work.

[dsmiles]

Or their Spot check on proofreading, but that doesn't pertain to the discussion, I guess.

In Play-by-Post, I let the players ask as many questions as they like. I usually just put Knowledge check results in spoilers, like so:

Knowledge (dungeoneering) [DC 12]:

Spoiler

Show

It's a choker. These nasty little beasts like to, as their name suggests, choke, as you've learned in the past, either from scholarly finds or from experience. Chokers are quick and sneaky--stay far away or beat it down quickly. As always, teamwork makes the dream work.

Teamwork makes the dream work. I like that. I may have to use that. My personal favorite (as a selfish neutral or wholly evil character) is ,"There may be no I in TEAM, but there's [edit] sure an I in WIN." I actually use that on at work, too.