[3.5] Help With Metamagic Choices

[Koury]

So, I am currently playing a Wizard in a game here and we are progressing fairly rapidly. Looking ahead, I see that I have a metric ton of Metamagic Feats coming my way.

My feat schedule, to wit:

Human - Collegiate Wizard
Wizard 1 - Martial Study (Wind Stride)
1st - Sculpt Spell
3rd - Maximize Spell
5th - Easy Metamagic (Maximize)
W5 - Improved Initiative
(6th) Metaphysical Spellshaper 1 - Metamagic School Focus (Conj)
7th -
(7th) MSS 2 -
9th -
(9th) Incantatrix 1 -
11th -
(12th) Incant 4 -
13th -
15th -
(15th) Incant 7 -
17th -
(18th) Incant 10 -
19th -

For the record, yes, there are houserules and ACFs in the above list.

Anyway, so... A little help with what to fill these millions of feat slots with? I'm making a sort of mailman Wizard. Build is Conjuror 5/Metaphysical Spellshaper 3/Incantatrix 10/??? 2 with a fair amount of houseruling about the obvious problematic abilities.

Thoughts? Questions?

[Godskook]

Arcane Thesis: Orb of Fire sounds like a good idea, since that's the single-best orb to apply metamagic to, despite the energy type, since Daze is such a great status effect.

[nedz]

Its hard to know what to suggest when you have so many houserules.
E.G.
Sculpt Spell has a pre-req of any other Metamagic Feat ?
How is Improved Initiative a Wizard Bonus Feat ?

[mootoall]

You should pick your favorite spell and get an Arcane Thesis on it.

[Koury]

Its hard to know what to suggest when you have so many houserules.
E.G.
Sculpt Spell has a pre-req of any other Metamagic Feat ?
How is Improved Initiative a Wizard Bonus Feat ?

Switch Sculpt and Max then. I'm wrote that from memory.

As for so many houserules, what? There is an increased feat rate. I got Metamagic School Focus instead of MpS's ability burn metamagic thing. Thats about it, as far as matters there.

Improved Initiative is a Fighter Bonus Feat (as is Martial Study, which I used to get Tumble as a class skill), which I am using the SRD ACF to exchange my regular Wizard Bonus Feats for.

EDIT: Regarding Thesis and Orb of Fire. Can I throw Energy Sub onto a Searing Orb of Fire and not lose the bonuses from Searing?

[Andion Isurand]

As far as first level only feats go, I prefeer Keen Intellect from Oriental Adventures 3.5 (Dragon Magazine 318)... which allows you to use your Int modifier instead of your Wis modifier for Will saves, as well as Heal, Sense Motive, Spot and Survival skill checks. It effectively makes Wisdom another dump stat.

Instead of Improved Initative, I would go for the Spontaneous Divination ACF from Complete Champion at 5th level. Be sure to read the errata.

I would take the 6th level of wizard to Improve your base scores, unless you are using fractional BAB and saves.

If you are going for orb of fire, I would think about taking Blistering Spell (PH2) to apply a penalty to their attacks and checks as well as Radiant Spell (Dragon 314) to possibly blind the target that fails a reflex save against your fire spell.

[Thurbane]

Arcane Thesis: Orb of Fire sounds like a good idea, since that's the single-best orb to apply metamagic to, despite the energy type, since Daze is such a great status effect.

Would Energy Substitution or Searing Spell help with the energy type? There are a few other metamagics that make (part) of the damage untyped, I believe...

[Keld Denar]

Energy Sub replaces the [Fire] descriptor with another descriptor, making the spell an invalid target for Searing Spell. Sorry.

[Koury]

Energy Sub replaces the [Fire] descriptor with another descriptor, making the spell an invalid target for Searing Spell. Sorry.

But Metas are applied in the most beneficial order... So, making a Searing Orb of [Element] would check like this:

Searing - Is spell of Fire type? - Yes
Energy Sub - Is spell appropriate to sub types? - Yes

Spell fires off.

[/last ditch effort to make it work]

[Thurbane]

Energy Sub replaces the [Fire] descriptor with another descriptor, making the spell an invalid target for Searing Spell. Sorry.

Iactually meant one or the other, not both...

[Endarire]

Metamagic and You: A Thesis

[faceroll]

Arcane Thesis: Orb of Fire sounds like a good idea, since that's the single-best orb to apply metamagic to, despite the energy type, since Daze is such a great status effect.

Actually, it's the best orb BECAUSE it's fire damage, thanks to the searing spell feat.

[Galsiah]

Well, definitely Quicken, Empower, and Twin. Maybe Extend, Chained, and Persist if you are so inclined. Maybe put Easy Metamagic on Quicken, Twin, and Persist to get extra gouda on your spells

[faceroll]

Arcane Thesis: Orb of Fire sounds like a good idea, since that's the single-best orb to apply metamagic to, despite the energy type, since Daze is such a great status effect.

Actually, it's the best orb BECAUSE it's fire damage, thanks to the searing spell feat.

Energy Sub replaces the [Fire] descriptor with another descriptor, making the spell an invalid target for Searing Spell. Sorry.

That's why you pick up energy sub: aid and use energy admixture with the orb.

But Metas are applied in the most beneficial order... So, making a Searing Orb of [Element] would check like this:

Searing - Is spell of Fire type? - Yes
Energy Sub - Is spell appropriate to sub types? - Yes

Spell fires off.

[/last ditch effort to make it work]

What's the point? Searing Spell makes fire damage damage normally immune enemies. If you aren't doing fire damage, nothing happens. There is a devil (fire immune). You shoot a searing energy sub fire orb. It now does lightning damage. Why bother with the searing part, again?

[Koury]

Well, definitely Quicken, Empower, and Twin. Maybe Extend, Chained, and Persist if you are so inclined. Maybe put Easy Metamagic on Quicken, Twin, and Persist to get extra gouda on your spells

I'm going to take Quicken and Easy MM (Quicken). I'll take most of the others too (with the exception of Persist. I'm am trying to limit myself a little, despite how it may look.)

Suggestions on the order? There are a number of levels where I get two feats and can grab the feat and Easy MM at the same time.

EDIT:

What's the point? Searing Spell makes fire damage damage normally immune enemies. If you aren't doing fire damage, nothing happens. There is a devil (fire immune). You shoot a searing energy sub fire orb. It now does lightning damage. Why bother with the searing part, again?

Doesn't Searing do 1.5x damage also?

[Karsh]

What you should actually do (and Cindy does) is take Energy Substitution: Cold and Piercing Cold Spell, and use Piercing Cold Substituted Orbs of Fire.

Quicken Spell, Invisible Spell, Twin Spell, Fell Drain, Reach Spell (if you're not going Archmage for those last 2 levels), Chain Spell (combined with Reach Spell, suddenly you have crazy good buff spells hitting the entire party at once) coupled with Persistent Spell (Persistent Greater Ironguard, anyone?).

Don't forget that the Incantatrix has the ability to apply metamagic to other people's spells for free with a Spellcraft check. Use Simulacrums of yourself to pile on metamagic for early morning buffs and giggle with delight as magic weapons shatter harmlessly on your skin.

EDIT: Also, don't forget Energy Admixture.

A Cold Admixed Cold Substituted Piercing Cold Empowered Maximized Twinned Orb of Fire (Invisible, Fell Draining) does 2 ranged touch attacks that each do 180+15d6 cold damage and a negative level (half against creatures with Cold Immunity).

It's rocket tag, but with liberal use of Celerity and Imbue Familiar with Spell Ability/Quicken Spell, you can solo kill a Xixecal with cold damage at level 18. (I proved this somewhere about a year ago, no clue what the thread was called though)

[Koury]

Don't forget that the Incantatrix has the ability to apply metamagic to other people's spells for free with a Spellcraft check. Use Simulacrums of yourself to pile on metamagic for early morning buffs and giggle with delight as magic weapons shatter harmlessly on your skin.

As far as normal Incantatrix cheese, I don't have access to much of it. I'm mostly in the class for the wealth of metamagics I get out of it.

Capstone was changed to, essentially, "Subtract one level from a metamagic'd spell."

An Empowered Fireball is normally a level 5 spell. This makes is a 4.
A Maxed Empowered Fireball is normally a level 8 spell. This makes it a level 7.

Its always minus 1, no matter how many metas are stuck on.

[Andion Isurand]

I wouldn't take easy metamagic for quicken spell.
I would just use Arcane Spellsurge to get quickened spells.

[Koury]

I'm pretty sure thats Sorc only, isn't it?

[Andion Isurand]

No, unless there was some errata for Dragon Magic that I missed.

[Koury]

No, unless there was some errata for Dragom Magic that I missed.

Oh, right. Its just only USEFUL for Sorcs, since my normal casting time spells move to swifts and I still only get one per round. Unless I'm trying to summon (which I'm not).

[Andion Isurand]

Then use those tumble ranks to improve the AC you get from an all out defense as a standard action.

If you spread out the improvements that ELH offers at rank totals of 25 and 45 etc etc....

TUMBLE SKILL (synergy: Balance & Jump)

RK = Ranks
SB = Synergy Bonus
FD = Fighting Defensively AC Bonus
AOD = All-Out Defense AC Bonus

RK // SB // FD // AOD

00 // +0 // +02 // +04
05 // +2 // +03 // +06
10 // +2 // +03 // +07
15 // +3 // +04 // +08
20 // +3 // +04 // +09
25 // +4 // +05 // +10
30 // +4 // +05 // +11
35 // +5 // +06 // +12
40 // +5 // +06 // +13
45 // +6 // +07 // +14

You can also use the Heroics spell to grant yourself the Combat Expertise and Improved Combat Expertise and use them in conjunction with Fighting Defensively using your standard action.

[Keld Denar]

Searing Spell > Piercing Cold, since Searing Spell affects creatures with the [Fire] subtype. Piercing Cold does not do the same for the [Cold] subtype.

[Karsh]

Searing Spell > Piercing Cold, since Searing Spell affects creatures with the [Fire] subtype. Piercing Cold does not do the same for the [Cold] subtype.

Huh, I never knew that. Wonder why?

[faceroll]

Doesn't Searing do 1.5x damage also?

No.
4
5
6
7
8
9
0

[Koury]

No.

Huh. Wonder why I though that. It doesn't make sense either way for it to do that as Empower is a +2.

[faceroll]

Huh. Wonder why I though that. It doesn't make sense either way for it to do that as Empower is a +2.

It might be because it turns fire spells from 1.5x vs. cold subtype to 2x.

[Andion Isurand]

If you make yourself undead and then buff yourself with the Icefane Corpse spell... then you can heal yourself for the same amount of damage you would have otherwise taken from cold effects, including your own.

Icefane Corpse. Dungeon Magazine 109, page 51.
http://www.obsidianportal.com/campai...icefane-corpse

Gaining the fire subtype via Mantle of the Fiery Spirit would only increase the amount you heal from this combo, especially if you hit yourself with peircing cold spells.

[Godskook]

Actually, it's the best orb BECAUSE it's fire damage, thanks to the searing spell feat.

1.Considering that Energy Admixture has Energy Substitution as a pre-requisite, energy type is not the primary concern here *anyway*.

2.Searing spell isn't that awesome. Handy, sure, but if orb of sound was the one with the Save or Daze effect, I'd be reccomending that one instead, and if I *REALLY* wanted it to deal fire, I'd see point #1.

[Keld Denar]

Eh, Orb of Sound only does d4s, and Orb of Force caps at 10 dice instead of 15. Orb of Force also doesn't have a rider effect, and Orb of Sound's rider effect is crappy (deafened is about the least painful status effect unless your vision is based on sound).

Orb of Fire really is the best. Almost nothing is immune to daze.