Aid Another Capaicty?

[Hanuman]

Is there a cap on how much aid you can get on a skill check? Like, let's say you get 100 people "aiding" you.....

+200?

[AstralFire]

In many cases, a character’s help won’t be beneficial, or only a limited number of characters can help at once.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/usingSkills.htm

That's the most concrete limitation on it I'm aware of. Which makes sense, otherwise we'd all procreate via orgies.

[Hanuman]

Well, if something takes 9 months to bake, you're probably gonna want it to be your favorite flavor.

But anyway, what's to stop let's say, a party of 4 8th level sorcerers with 18 cha each casting, let's say, unseen servant and the mass version with all their 4th and 1st level spell slots then metamagic usage to expend second level and 3rd?

That totals up to 232, which can aid:

Balance, Bluff (including feint), Climb, Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Disguise, Forgery, Gather Info, Heal, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Perform, Ride, Search, Sense Motive, Spot, Survival, Swim, Use Rope

Now, statistically speaking you will only get roughly 50% of those as successful aids if possible, but that's still 116.

So, for an 8th level group of 18 cha sorcerers with that setup, what's to stop them from let's say, nailing a perform check with a roll of roughly 250+?


This comes to mind: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80DtQD5BQ_A

[Eldan]

So you are building a human pyramid of unseen servants to help you climb a wall. I don't see a problem with that And perform, well, if you have the entire cast of Aida and the London Philharmonic Unseen Orchestra, that gives a nice bonus.

Anyway, it seems to basically boil down to DM fiat.

[AstralFire]

Well, if something takes 9 months to bake, you're probably gonna want it to be your favorite flavor.

But anyway, what's to stop let's say, a party of 4 8th level sorcerers with 18 cha each casting, let's say, unseen servant and the mass version with all their 4th and 1st level spell slots then metamagic usage to expend second level and 3rd?

That totals up to 232, which can aid:

Balance, Bluff (including feint), Climb, Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Disguise, Forgery, Gather Info, Heal, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Perform, Ride, Search, Sense Motive, Spot, Survival, Swim, Use Rope

Now, statistically speaking you will only get roughly 50% of those as successful aids if possible, but that's still 116.

So, for an 8th level group of 18 cha sorcerers with that setup, what's to stop them from let's say, nailing a perform check with a roll of roughly 250+?


This comes to mind: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80DtQD5BQ_A

My first thought was, "I wouldn't allow it."

My second was, "If they want to blow this many resources on magic that actually kind of actually looks like ritual magic so that they can perform the most amazing concert ever, I totally would allow it."

[Emmerask]

Well, if something takes 9 months to bake, you're probably gonna want it to be your favorite flavor.

But anyway, what's to stop let's say, a party of 4 8th level sorcerers with 18 cha each casting, let's say, unseen servant and the mass version with all their 4th and 1st level spell slots then metamagic usage to expend second level and 3rd?

That totals up to 232, which can aid:

Balance, Bluff (including feint), Climb, Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Disguise, Forgery, Gather Info, Heal, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Perform, Ride, Search, Sense Motive, Spot, Survival, Swim, Use Rope

Now, statistically speaking you will only get roughly 50% of those as successful aids if possible, but that's still 116.

So, for an 8th level group of 18 cha sorcerers with that setup, what's to stop them from let's say, nailing a perform check with a roll of roughly 250+?


This comes to mind: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80DtQD5BQ_A

Its limited by the situation and the dms call ^^
You can have only so many persons (or unseen servants) helping you craft an object for example how many exactly would depend on the sice of the object ie a crafting a tank much more then crafting a clock.

Other things like listen the player would need to describe to me how unseen servants may aid in that... atm I have the image of 200 servants all telling the pc to listen in a certain direction "hey boss, listen over there"

[true_shinken]

Obligatory link: nanobots conquer D&D
Can't believe this was'nt mentioned already, really.

[Hanuman]

No matter the roll It's always going to roll on the DC chart as "rocking so hard that angels come to see what the hell you are doing".

Now, humanoids generally need 8 hours of sleep to yaknow, deal with sleep and such.

But if only 12k were to be sunk into magic bedrolls you could recharge the spells within an hour, and if you rotate you'd still always have 3 people out there on stage and have 4 people out there for 20 hours a day.

Is a 23 hour performance day a little ridiculous? Not for a warforged!
Downside is the -2 Cha, which can be fixed with the stat change at level 4 and 8 assuming base stat of 18 -2. Items also provide bonuses.

Ok, so obviously everyone who hears it is going to be a fanatic, most of the time, if they aren't deaf and blind or just totally lame.


Rig up some sort of flying stage via magic or airship or flying whales or ride dragons or whatever (they can help with ride, craft and diplomacy so getting a flying stage is not going to be a problem.


The servants last 1/hour/level yes? So that's 1/3 of 232 or so you'd only gain an average of +77 to your checks at any one time, but for a REALLY good performance I guess you could take a break and use all the servants at once.


So there you go, the perfect band?

Can we optimize this further?

[AstralFire]

Obligatory link: nanobots conquer D&D
Can't believe this was'nt mentioned already, really.

This is amazing.

[Hanuman]

Obligatory link: nanobots conquer D&D
Can't believe this was'nt mentioned already, really.

Hmm this def. buffs the numbers through the roof with Unseen Servant Horde, albeit slightly higher requirements.

But is 40 servants for 20 hours better than 48-96 servants (average 68) serving for 10? You could always have the option for either, but it looks like it works out slightly in the favor of persisted mass unseen servants than it does servant horde.
Though, on a luck factor servant horde does favor you when you're lucky!

[mikau013]

Obligatory link: nanobots conquer D&D
Can't believe this was'nt mentioned already, really.

Obligatory link: How to craft a a Vicstar. (Victory-class Star Destroyer.)
Can't believe this wasn't mentioned already, really.

[Eldan]

Obligatory link: How to craft a a Vicstar. (Victory-class Star Destroyer.)
Can't believe this wasn't mentioned already, really.

So, he's mixing, unless I'm mistaken, d20 modern, D&D, d20 Future, Star Wars d20 and one or two other systems? Well, how could that ever be broken.

[AstralFire]

So, he's mixing, unless I'm mistaken, d20 modern, D&D, d20 Future, Star Wars d20 and one or two other systems? Well, how could that ever be broken.

As much as tsuyo's an amazing optimizer this is definitely one of his less good builds.

[ericgrau]

I think the Player's Handbook says the DM sets the limit based on what's reasonable. IMO it's however many people can comfortably fit around you during the task. Often this means a helper on each side, so 2. You could cram more in but it is likely to do more harm than good. Some tasks might allow more or less workspace, or not benefit reasonably from a helper at all.

[Hanuman]

I think the Player's Handbook says the DM sets the limit based on what's reasonable. IMO it's however many people can comfortably fit around you during the task. Often this means a helper on each side, so 2. You could cram more in but it is likely to do more harm than good. Some tasks might allow more or less workspace, or not benefit reasonably from a helper at all.

It's more like having hundreds of hands that are all coordinated, only touch or impede what they want to, and can stretch. Kind of like a godly doctor octopus mixed with elfen lied. Imagine painting something except you have 100 hands that are coordinated, you could have each hand take a little sprig of bristles, get a tiny bit of paint and just swarm over a canvas like a printer does. basically magical phantom hands which are coordinated as a machine.