Results 1 to 30 of 140
Thread: Parrying
-
2010-11-25, 08:07 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2010
- Location
- Canberra, Australia
- Gender
Parrying
How is blocking with a weapon represented in game? fighting defensively? but you can do that without a weapon.
What happens if you say, "I block incoming attack with my sword?"
are there rules for weapons having inherent AC bonuses that they grant while you are on the defense? has anyone houseruled this?I like being asked difficult and interesting questions, even though sometimes the only answer is "I wish I knew".
-
2010-11-25, 08:14 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2010
- Location
- Vancouver BC Canada
- Gender
Re: Parrying
2 weapon defense, parrying is included in fighting defensively, regular AC, full defense and base dex score (10 is human, which is understated).
That's the crunch anyway, but what you're actually talking about is fluff.
A players ability to parry is represented by their investment in either the above feats or enhancers for those feats or ones that boost AC, or the investment in their dexterity score.
You might think that being an expert swordsman makes you super awesome at parrying things, but that's all included in the current AC and dex systems, there are ways to improve it which lower attack rolls, but that's what being an "awesome swordsman" is all about-- keeping your relative attack bonus while fighting more defensively.
-
2010-11-25, 08:16 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2010
- Location
- Canberra, Australia
- Gender
Re: Parrying
I don't really think thats the case.
Not having a weapon doesn't affect your AC in any way that I know of.
Even if you have no unarmed capability. that implies that you simply don't use your weapon to block attacks, or if you do it is no more effective than if you were totally unarmed. And yeah the existance of the shield bonus from two weapon defense only makes that harder to understand for me, since clearly weapons can be used to stop other weapons from hitting you.Last edited by Hironomus; 2010-11-25 at 08:18 AM.
I like being asked difficult and interesting questions, even though sometimes the only answer is "I wish I knew".
-
2010-11-25, 08:18 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Metro Manila, Philippines
- Gender
Re: Parrying
For the most part, parrying is abstracted into feats like Two Weapon Defense, Combat Expertise, and attack options like Fighting Defensively and Total Defense.
However, there are more active parrying options like the Warblade maneuver Wall of Blades (make an attack roll as an immediate action, if the result as higher than your AC you can use it to replace your AC) and the feat Melee Evasion (which does something similar).
Eberron Red Hand of Doom Campaign Journal. NOW COMPLETE!
Sakuya Izayoi avatar by Mr. Saturn. Caella sig by Neoseph.
"I dunno, you just gave me the image of a nerd flying slow motion over a coffee table towards another nerd, dual wielding massive books. It was awesome." -- Marriclay
-
2010-11-25, 08:22 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2010
- Location
- Vancouver BC Canada
- Gender
-
2010-11-25, 08:23 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2010
- Location
- Canberra, Australia
- Gender
Re: Parrying
Thanks for answering so quickly.
But I am still unsatisfied.
I feel there should be some kind of rule representing the fact that when someone is trying to hit you with a bit of steel it is almost always preferable to have a similar bit of steel to interpose between their bit of steel and your fragile body. Since there apparently isn't, how would I make one?Last edited by Hironomus; 2010-11-25 at 08:24 AM.
I like being asked difficult and interesting questions, even though sometimes the only answer is "I wish I knew".
-
2010-11-25, 08:25 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2010
- Location
- Canberra, Australia
- Gender
-
2010-11-25, 08:25 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2006
- Location
- Poland
- Gender
Re: Parrying
Not having a weapon doesn't affect your AC in any way that I know of.
And it's quite sufficient for abstract game like 3.5.Avatar by KwarkpuddingThe subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing;
Rush in and die, dogs—I was a man before I was a king.
Whoever makes shoddy beer, shall be thrown into manure - town law from Gdańsk, XIth century.
-
2010-11-25, 08:25 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2004
- Location
- The Land of Angles
Re: Parrying
-
2010-11-25, 08:29 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2007
- Gender
-
2010-11-25, 08:31 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2004
- Location
- The Land of Angles
-
2010-11-25, 08:32 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2010
- Location
- Vancouver BC Canada
- Gender
Re: Parrying
A little tip, the run feat, a good con score and improved base speed will always win no matter how long the other guys sword is.
In fact, the bigger the sword the easier it is to dodge, parry, or block the arm. Strength breaks through parries and arm blocks, and moves the sword faster and with more ease to account for dodging.
Monks don't seem to mind not having a weapon, but perhaps that's because they are actually trained in martial arts where as a fighter is trained in weaponry usage.
Anything that isn't already mechanical, is probably fluff.
It's preferable to have steel if you want to hurt them, which is represented in the AoO from untrained unarmed attacks and that's where the lack of AC from the sword comes in, the double hit chance-- scrambling away while not fighting doesn't require a sword to be effective.
-
2010-11-25, 08:33 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2010
- Location
- Canberra, Australia
- Gender
Re: Parrying
That's more what I was looking for. But its not all that abstract. I mean there are rules for far more complicated things. That works for when you are fighting but what about just defending yourself?
But they ARE still both bits of steel, and both can theoretically be used to halt the movement of other bits of steel.
A related point. The defensive enhancement to weaponry. i can't really remember what it does, but doesn't it seem like it is implying that the ability to parry is almost supernatural? I jest of course (unless we are living in a world in which the only presence of the supernatural is an innate ability of all inhabitants to block whilst weilding weapons).I like being asked difficult and interesting questions, even though sometimes the only answer is "I wish I knew".
-
2010-11-25, 08:33 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2010
Re: Parrying
It's poorly reflected in D&D. And it should be based on the swordsman's skill, not the weapon they carry. A 20th level fighter with an AC of 20 is hit just as easily as a 1st with an AC of 20.
Weapon Expertise allows parrying, and it's assumed that fighting defensively does so to a degree, too. Two weapon defence, of course...
Since there apparently isn't, how would I make one?
-
2010-11-25, 08:34 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Gender
Re: Parrying
I tend to agree.
However the one thing that changes is that you lose reach. So the puny 1,5 meter drops to zero (unless you have improved unarmed strike) that is, if you try to punch someone and he has a knife, he gets an AoO. That, in real life, might really be the difference between life and death. You are both commoners (let s face it) and have 1 to 6 HPs. he gets to stab you first because he's armed, and if he succeeds (normal humans, AC 10, is a 50% chance) you get stabbed, which might result in death (1d4+STR or even worse if it is a critical). What I just said (I will diss my own point here) is totally moot though, because we are not talking about street gangsters gutting each others in dark alleys. We are talking sordboys and axe dudes, we are talking soldiers and knights and we want to be able to go into climactic battles on rooftop like the last strip just proved. We want battles where between two equally skilled and high level badass opponents, the one who gets disarmed is in serious trouble and is forced to dodge, duck and tumble like crazy, never mind attacking or winning.
I feel that total defense and fight defensively are two very limited options, and this is why I recommend to use at the very least the level/class based AC (as in Star Wars or Unearthed Arcana). Thus, the gritty veteran of middle age (who has his dex dropped to "just 10-11") still is a force to be reckoned with because of his 20 years of battle experience. It still does not cover the armed vs unarmed part, but it does make the fluff easier to bend to the kind of battle descriptions I am going for.
O.Enjoy my creations
Gatsu, from Berserk (Kentaro Miura's)
A hero: the Tekkaman space-knight.
The villain he has to face: Dobrai, Valdaster Overlord from Tekkaman
Threadwinner of Vs Mage challenges.
Warning: may perform below standards if target has no heat signature (eg: undead mage)
-
2010-11-25, 08:34 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2010
- Location
- Canberra, Australia
- Gender
-
2010-11-25, 08:36 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2007
- Gender
Re: Parrying
Highly generic and adaptable point-buy system. I'm not really enamored with it; almost anything it does, interestingly, I find another more focused system does better - just like D&D, but without the huge number of people to play with. It does have its fans, though.
I'm also going to repeat my earlier statement about Tome of Battle - Iron Heart includes a lot of traditional sword moves poorly represented by D&D.
-
2010-11-25, 08:37 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2004
- Location
- The Land of Angles
Re: Parrying
It's an RPG.
Do a Google search for GURPS. It'll be the first result.
Instead of "armour class", they have defense scores - Block, Parry and Dodge. Block depends on shields, Parry on weapon skill, and Dodge on how quick you are.
If you want to play a character focused on parrying, you buy a high weapon skill and perhaps Improved Defense (Parry).
-
2010-11-25, 08:38 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2010
- Location
- Vancouver BC Canada
- Gender
Re: Parrying
A related point. The defensive enhancement to weaponry. i can't really remember what it does, but doesn't it seem like it is implying that the ability to parry is almost supernatural? I jest of course (unless we are living in a world in which the only presence of the supernatural is an innate ability of all inhabitants to block whilst weilding weapons).
-
2010-11-25, 08:39 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2010
- Location
- Canberra, Australia
- Gender
Re: Parrying
I like being asked difficult and interesting questions, even though sometimes the only answer is "I wish I knew".
-
2010-11-25, 08:39 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2010
- Location
- Vancouver BC Canada
- Gender
-
2010-11-25, 08:40 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2007
- Gender
Re: Parrying
It's not something you do as a matter of course with a weapon. The primary point of having the weapon is to hit someone. Parrying and blocking is done by a dedicated hand - a shield, or parrying dagger (that's right, two-weapon fighting is not usually supposed to be RAAAAAAAAAAAGH KILL EVERYTHING DEATH BY A THOUSAND CUTS!)
-
2010-11-25, 08:41 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2004
- Location
- The Land of Angles
-
2010-11-25, 08:42 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Gender
Re: Parrying
Neverwinter Nights had a "Parry" skill, which I think confused more than a few people who expected something similar to be in D&D.
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
-
2010-11-25, 08:46 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2006
- Location
- Poland
- Gender
Re: Parrying
Recover from what?
"Blocking" with a weapon like portrayed in games and movies would be indeed quite useless, easy to avoid "defense".
However, defensive value of any bigger weapon is obviously significant, to bind, deflect and oppose your opponents weapon.
And of course, it's not really job for D&D to represent fighting in detailed way.Avatar by KwarkpuddingThe subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing;
Rush in and die, dogs—I was a man before I was a king.
Whoever makes shoddy beer, shall be thrown into manure - town law from Gdańsk, XIth century.
-
2010-11-25, 08:46 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2004
- Location
- The Land of Angles
-
2010-11-25, 08:47 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2008
- Location
- Maryland, USA
- Gender
Re: Parrying
Parrying is included in your ac value. If you want to parry more use the combat expertise feat. I've realized from fighting with boffer weapons that it is better to not be there instead of parrying against your opponent. If you don't mind a bit more paperwork I'll suggest playing role master. You can subtract from your attack roll to add the same amount to one attack.
-
2010-11-25, 08:47 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2007
- Gender
-
2010-11-25, 08:50 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2010
- Location
- Canberra, Australia
- Gender
Re: Parrying
No more or less than the average Australian Psychology student But I have used objects to stop people from hitting me with other objects. And usually I have been quite happy with the result.
Also it seems to me that most realistic, real life swordplay consists mostly of blocking. since getting hit typically means you lose. Though I concede I could be wrong, being a mere student and not someone who understands swords and blocking and stuff.Last edited by Hironomus; 2010-11-25 at 08:50 AM.
I like being asked difficult and interesting questions, even though sometimes the only answer is "I wish I knew".
-
2010-11-25, 08:51 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2008
Re: Parrying
I use black for sarcasm.
Call me Rose, or The Rose Dragon. Rose Dragon is someone else entirely.
If you need me for something, please PM me about it. I am having difficulty keeping track of all my obligations.