Ways to boost initiative on a noncaster

[true_shinken]

Hey guys.
I'm looking for ways to boost Initiative on noncasters. For now I have:

• Marshall's Motivate Dexterity
• Factotum's Brains Over Brawn
• Thug feat - +2 Initiative, +2 Spot
• Improved Initiative - +4
• Eager/Warning/Initiative weapon - total +9
• Quick Recconeiter feat - +2
• Guerrila Scout feat - +2

That's from memory. Anything else?

[Andion Isurand]

I thought that the guerrilla scout feat only gave a +1 bonus to initiative.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Sandals of the Vagabond give you a nice +2 or +4 to initiative in addition to stopping either the fatigued or exhausted condition for only a few thousand GP and can be found in Complete Champion.

Ring of Anticipation from Drow of the Underdark lets you roll twice for initiative, choosing the better of the two rolls along with giving bonuses to spot and listen.

[WinWin]

The Dread Commando prc grants a team initiative bonus.

[Hanuman]

Swordsage?

[HunterOfJello]

X stat to Y bonus thread


Also, I know there's one trait that improves Initiative by +2, I think it decreases AC by 1 or something, i forget.

[Swooper]

Factotum 3 gives you int to all str/dex/con based ability checks. Initiative is specifically a dex based ability check.

You're welcome.

[Siosilvar]

Factotum 3 gives you int to all str/dex/con based ability checks. Initiative is specifically a dex based ability check.

You're welcome.

[*]Factotum's Brains Over Brawn[/LIST]

Hmm...


Anyway, Danger Sense in CAdv lets you re-roll initiative. Admittedly, it is only once per day. So does Lucky Start from Complete Scoundrel.

[Emmerask]

Moment of alacrity, +20 ini

[WinceRind]

Swordsage, but it's a fairly small bonus unless you go Swordsage for many levels.

And then there's also a feat nobody mentioned yet... Quick Reconnoiter or something from either PHB2 or Complete Adventurer. It gives you bonuses to listen and spot ( I think +2), lets you use them as a free action actively instead of having to spend a standard action, and offers you +2 to initiative.

I might be wrong about the +2 bonus to Spot/Listen...

But, yeah, it's +2 initiative, and the pre-reqs are 5 ranks in Listen and Spot as far as I remember.

[Thurbane]

Armor of the Watching Master (set) +2 untyped
Belt of Battle +2 competence
Bracers of the Blinding Strike +2 competence
Eager weapon enhancement +2 untyped
Roaring armor enhancement +4 competence
Rod of Alertness +1 insight
Soulbound weapon enhancement +2 insight
Warning weapon enhancement +5 insight

[grarrrg]

And then there's also a feat nobody mentioned yet... Quick Reconnoiter...

Factotum 3 gives you int to all str/dex/con based ability checks. Initiative is specifically a dex based ability check.

Hey guys, thanks for the help and all, but I think the OP got these already...

Son(s) I am dissapoint.


Oh, and, um... Items that boost your Dexterity.

[Swooper]

Hmm...

Damn, teaches me to properly read the OP, eh?

[FMArthur]

Hit And Run Tactics is a Fighter ACF from Drow of the Underdark. You get +2 to Initiative and your Dex to damage against flat-footed foes. You give up your heavy armor and shield proficiency for it, but can't gain them back via multiclassing - it specifies you have to take the respective feats for it.

I never use heavy armor anyway, so this is something I've grown accustomed to attaching to every Fighter (dip) build I make.

There's also the Markings of the Hunter feat in Races of Stone that lets you roll twice for initiative and choose the better roll. It's Goliath-only and requires Auspicious Marking. Probably doesn't stack with Ring of Anticipation due to wording, either.

You could also take Leadership, or even chain Leaderships, and have your cohorts use White Raven Tactics... I don't think this should even be listed for completeness's sake, to be honest.

[Thurbane]

Also, I know there's one trait that improves Initiative by +2, I think it decreases AC by 1 or something, i forget.

Aggressive: +2 to Initiative (untyped), -1 to AC (also untyped).

Also, if you don't count them as casters, Binders get -

• Pact Augmentation: up to +10 insight to Initative
• Balam (vestige): up to +5 insight to Initiative
• Anima Mage - Vestigial Awareness: +2 Initiative

[FMArthur]

Iaijutsu Master (OA) adds Charisma to Initiative at 2nd level. They also get a guaranteed surprise round at 10th level if they are within melee range of an enemy.

[Hanuman]

Iaijutsu Master (OA) adds Charisma to Initiative at 2nd level. They also get a guaranteed surprise round at 10th level if they are within melee range of an enemy.

..........................................what.

How does charisma improve initiative? Quick wit?

[Godskook]

..........................................what.

How does charisma improve initiative? Quick wit?

My view of the mental scores has always been that each compares to the physical ones as such:

Int->Str
Wis->Con
Cha->Dex

Given that, it makes perfect sense. Cha is the score of social flexibility, or social dexterity, if you will. That quick thinking leads to quick action should follow rather logically.

[Hanuman]

My view of the mental scores has always been that each compares to the physical ones as such:

Int->Str
Wis->Con
Cha->Dex

Given that, it makes perfect sense. Cha is the score of social flexibility, or social dexterity, if you will. That quick thinking leads to quick action should follow rather logically.

Wait what? No?

Dex uses reflexes which are mental already!

Intelligence assumes conscious thought and neocortex processing which is actually reflexes, dex is just connecting it to the body in the right way.

Wis is the refinement of one's mental processes beyond simple logic, and rules over subconscious processes.

Cha COULD be related to Dex in terms of fluidity and as Dex and Int blur lines so do Dex and Cha, but how do you explain how someone's tact improves their initiative?

OH

This mechanic is based off of the assumption that Cha relates to Wis, and that wis relates to sense motive and spot and therefore you can use your sense of social flow to understand when someone is about to turn hostile.

That's a pretty crude mechanic, doesn't really account for "you open a box and a spider jumps at your face" kind of thing.

[Roga]

I see it as, you're so stony and imposing that you'd give the spider, or any one else, a penalty to initiative. It's simply easier to give yourself a bonus then to make everyone calculate a penalty.

Yondalla's Sense out of Races of Wild gives you your Wisdom Mod to Initiative with your dex. Halfling only.

There's also a crap ton of feats in Oriental Adventures and Rokugon that add a bonus here and there, and a Scorpion one that adds Intelligence to Initiative I believe.

[gorfnab]

Lunatic Insight feat - Heroes of Horror - +2 morale bonus on initiative

[Killer Angel]

That's from memory. Anything else?

Blooded. It's a regional feat from Player's guide to Faerun: +2 to initiative and spot and you cannot be shaken (if I remember correctly)

[Endarire]

Optimized Initiative Compilation

[Hanuman]

I see it as, you're so stony and imposing that you'd give the spider, or any one else, a penalty to initiative. It's simply easier to give yourself a bonus then to make everyone calculate a penalty.

Yondalla's Sense out of Races of Wild gives you your Wisdom Mod to Initiative with your dex. Halfling only.

There's also a crap ton of feats in Oriental Adventures and Rokugon that add a bonus here and there, and a Scorpion one that adds Intelligence to Initiative I believe.

That's pretty damn imposing if you can get a golem to do that.

[Thurbane]

Optimized Initiative Compilation

Nice guide...but it seems to missing a fair chunk of things already brought up in this thread?

[Eloel]

My view of the mental scores has always been that each compares to the physical ones as such:

Int->Str
Wis->Con
Cha->Dex

Given that, it makes perfect sense. Cha is the score of social flexibility, or social dexterity, if you will. That quick thinking leads to quick action should follow rather logically.

This is the first time I've seen that pair-up.
To me, Cha is Str's mental equivalent. It's your ability to force people to do things, mentally.
Int has always been Dex for me too, Int is pretty much the ability to think quickly, imo. A 3 Int guy can think of most things a 18 Int guy can. He just takes WAY too long to be practical.

[true_shinken]

This is the first time I've seen that pair-up.
To me, Cha is Str's mental equivalent. It's your ability to force people to do things, mentally.
Int has always been Dex for me too, Int is pretty much the ability to think quickly, imo. A 3 Int guy can think of most things a 18 Int guy can. He just takes WAY too long to be practical.

For the Iaijutsu Master, Charisma is a measure of ki. He channels ki to draw his sword faster and hit harder - he channels ki to act faster as well.

[Runestar]

Then along comes a dire tortoise and puts your high initiative to shame...

[Eloel]

For the Iaijutsu Master, Charisma is a measure of ki. He channels ki to draw his sword faster and hit harder - he channels ki to act faster as well.

Wait, what does that have to do with what you quoted?

[FMArthur]

I don't see why a Marshal can order everyone in 60ft to react faster but an Iaijutsu Master can't just tell himself to.

edit:
I was just reading up on the awful Draconic Auras on page 87 of Dragon Magic, and the Senses Draconic Aura improves your and your allies' Initiative by your aura bonus, as well as Spot and Listen. You can get this as a +1 aura by taking the Draconic Aura feat (same book, only requires 3rd level), you can replace a Marshal's Major Aura with this as you like (extending its range from 30ft to 60ft), and a Dragon Shaman from PHII has access to this particular aura by default. It's super weak, but I guess a Iaijutsu Focus-focused Marshal would be interested in it because he's likely to want to take 3 levels of Marshal anyway.