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  1. - Top - End - #61
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Zemro's Avatar

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    Default Re: Improved Monster Classes IV

    I'm just finishing off a racial class for the Thorn (MM3) and I'd like to call dips on the Marrashi (MM2) for a future project, since I didn't seem to see it anywhere.

    Until then, some commentary on the Animated Object:
    • I was going to comment on some sort of HP bonus, but it looks like having hardness takes care of that.
    • On movement speeds, they're not all equal choices, so there doesn't seem to be any reason why not to be something with wheels. Differences between various objects is fine, but they should at least be somewhat equal.
    • Sizes are neat, does having powerful build increase slam damage? Otherwise it seems most useful for Animated Objects with classes for weapon proficiencies.
    • Object Powers seem straight forward, giving a different class feel depending on your object type. I'll have to play around with it a bit and see if there's any object types the get better sorts of benefits. Some additional generic ones could be nice, I'm afraid I don't have too many ideas... maybe one to manipulate what sort of object you are?
    • Hidden Life and Never Alive are very neat, I like them. Though I wouldn't mind an option to delay the reanimation from Never Alive a bit, especially if I have to piece myself back together.
    • Distributed Consciousness, also very neat, though it's definitely something you'd have to take a bit of prep time before and between sessions to stat out the objects. Though since it depends on what sort of objects are around, that's difficult. Maybe make them identical and use the generic abilities?
    • Everything else seems straight forward, but I feel as though the class is missing something.

  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: Improved Monster Classes IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Magicyop View Post
    What? That's the whole idea. That's how the original Animated Object works. It is changed based on what type of object it is. It doesn't make any sense for a book to be able to contain stuff, but a backpack without the ability to hold items? That doesn't make sense to me.

    Objects are just so different, they need to have different abilities. It doesn't make any sense for a blanket to play music on itself or for a table to strangle someone.

    I'm sorry, but this sort of thing is necessary to the class. I cannot give blanket abilities for any animated object. That just can't work to make a fun class. A book would have about the same abilities as a boat. I'm not penalizing anyone, I've tried to make sure that most common mundane objects have an ability or two specific only to them.

    EDIT: I guess what I'm saying is that your choice of object is not just fluff. I've tried to make rules for choosing what object you are, and you gain abilities based on that. I'm not giving abilities based on, say, hair color, it's more akin to making abilities based on race. And there are tons of elf or dwarf based PrCs out there.
    The problem inherent with this is that people will end up sacrificing fluff for greater optimization. There's a pretty decent power discrepancy between all the abilities, especially for optimization's sake, and thus one who might want to make a book character might not because it's highly suboptimal. And why can't people get all these abilities? All it takes is a little imagination. A book with a secret extradimensional compartment, maybe- you peel back the paper on the inside of the cover or something along those lines.
    I'm not going to say NO!, but I still don't like it. If anyone should sacrifice fluff, it should be we few- we merry few, we band of homebrewers
    for he in this thread who makes a monster with me
    shall be my brother; be he ne'er so uncreative,
    this thread shall enlighten his condition;
    and playgrounders in SMBG now a-playing
    shall find themselves accurs'd they were not here
    and hold their classes cheap while any here posts
    that designed with us in Improved Monster Classes!
    [/Shakespeare]
    *ehehm*
    Anyways, as I was saying- my refusal to the fluff requirements was a knee-jerk reaction. I wouldn't have done it myself. After all, our goal here is playability, the utmost playability, and things like fluff restrictions make classes less playable. As I've stated again and again with the paladin, if you're going to make fluff restrictions, A: you'd better make them strict & stringent, and B: you'd better make them damn worthwhile. Nobody wants to play a lackluster class with fluff restrictions.
    A great homebrewer would make the animated objects class and find a way to bypass the fluff restrictions without degrading anything in the class. You're not be a great homebrewer: that's fine. In that case, I CAN leave it as it is.
    But wouldn't it be great if you could prove me wrong?
    Last edited by Gorgondantess; 2010-12-01 at 01:56 AM.
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  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Default Re: Improved Monster Classes IV

    Unfortunately, I'm going to have to stop working On Illurien for a few days. I have a 3rd party 4E class that a player has been using, that needs redone, as it's currently too weak for the party it's in. Next session is a Boss battle, and possible end of the campaign so it needs redone before then. I also have to compare it to the power of other characters and do a playtest of the encounter so that I'm sure the players can actually win.
    Last edited by Mystic Muse; 2010-12-01 at 02:59 AM.
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  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Default Re: Improved Monster Classes IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post
    The problem inherent with this is that people will end up sacrificing fluff for greater optimization. There's a pretty decent power discrepancy between all the abilities, especially for optimization's sake, and thus one who might want to make a book character might not because it's highly suboptimal. And why can't people get all these abilities? All it takes is a little imagination. A book with a secret extradimensional compartment, maybe- you peel back the paper on the inside of the cover or something along those lines.
    I find it more interesting if the fluff does govern the powers in this instance. However, I do agree that ANY object, should be awesome. So, rather than Uniform powers, I propose, more powers.
    Find a Boring object? Figure out more powers.
    That said, a rock is pretty much bound to be more boring than a living napkin dispenser. Even if they are mechanically the same.

    Anyways, as I was saying- my refusal to the fluff requirements was a knee-jerk reaction. I wouldn't have done it myself. After all, our goal here is playability, the utmost playability, and things like fluff restrictions make classes less playable.
    How so?
    The original proposition was to to require the player to be certain objects, that way the powers made sense. This way, the play is much more free to be any item or object that they can think of.

    As I've stated again and again with the paladin, if you're going to make fluff restrictions, A: you'd better make them strict & stringent, and B: you'd better make them damn worthwhile. Nobody wants to play a lackluster class with fluff restrictions.
    I disagree on the first note.
    Strict requirements will limit this class.
    'Must be a rope, vine, or rug ' is much less fun for the player than 'Must be flexible like a a rope, vine, or rug.'
    Worthwhile I do agree with.

    You're not be a great homebrewer: that's fine. In that case, I CAN leave it as it is.But wouldn't it be great if you could prove me wrong?
    I see no need to qualify the level of proficiency of the project's individual home-brewers, only their creations. It is one thing to tell someone that their creation is not great, and why, and a completely other thing to tell someone that they them-self are not great.

    Edit: Having given the Animated Object a quick look through, it looks like its going to want more Object abilities, but I have some ideas. I'll post those with my thoughts on it tomorrow, I think.
    Last edited by AugustNights; 2010-12-01 at 07:59 AM.
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  5. - Top - End - #65
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    Default Re: Improved Monster Classes IV

    [QUOTE=Magicyop;9869267]Well, transfers its essence to a new shell, but it doesn't need to have the object at hand. I'll make that more clear, thank you. QUOTE]

    Wait, what do you mean by that?

    <edit> Wow, I fail at quoting. :facepalm:
    Last edited by radmelon; 2010-12-01 at 10:21 AM.

  6. - Top - End - #66
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    Default Re: Improved Monster Classes IV

    Ultroloths are enigmatic, mysterious, and quite literally legendary, as all the knowledge about them is shrouded in myth. They're the bogeyman of the bogeymen- the things that the fiends tell stories about. 3rd edition botched it up and made them some 50's alien knockoff, with a big round head and big eyes. Ultroloths aren't scary because they're big and ugly with big teeth and flaming eyes- "The oldest and most powerful emotion of mankind is fear, and the most powerful fear is fear of the unknown". That's why they have the blank slate face.
    Ok, fair enough. To be honest, i've only read the MM3 and a few passing fluffy bits on the web. However, I don't want to go the route of it being a sweet talker because I have the horrible feeling the class will end up depending on how much NPC contact they get, and how far they're allowed to bluff/be a diplomancer. And I LIKE the auras. I don't mind using a different shade of fluff, though.

    Also, no-one's said anything on the crunch yet. Good? Bad? Any suggestions?
    Last edited by TheGeckoKing; 2010-12-01 at 10:56 AM.

  7. - Top - End - #67
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    Default Re: Improved Monster Classes IV

    Quote Originally Posted by ChumpLump View Post
    I find it more interesting if the fluff does govern the powers in this instance. However, I do agree that ANY object, should be awesome. So, rather than Uniform powers, I propose, more powers.
    Find a Boring object? Figure out more powers.
    That said, a rock is pretty much bound to be more boring than a living napkin dispenser. Even if they are mechanically the same.
    No, no. You know that one power? The one that involves that one thing that the object you want to use doesn't qualify for? Yeah, that one. Murphy's law dictates that that power will be the most powerful one optimization wise.

    How so?
    The original proposition was to to require the player to be certain objects, that way the powers made sense. This way, the play is much more free to be any item or object that they can think of.
    No, this way the player is less free to be ANY item or object they can think of because that one object is a mechanically unsound choice. I know what it's like to be a slave to optimization. This class is a slavedriver's whip, trust me.

    I disagree on the first note.
    Strict requirements will limit this class.
    'Must be a rope, vine, or rug ' is much less fun for the player than 'Must be flexible like a a rope, vine, or rug.'
    Worthwhile I do agree with.
    That was more design philosophy than meant for this class. Strict requirements wouldn't work for this, I agree... and thus there should be no requirements.


    I see no need to qualify the level of proficiency of the project's individual home-brewers, only their creations. It is one thing to tell someone that their creation is not great, and why, and a completely other thing to tell someone that they them-self are not great.
    Um, so what if he's not a great homebrewer? I'm not a great homebrewer. Nobody on this thread is. There are probably 2 or 3 people on this forum who are "great homebrewers".
    The point of that was, if he was really, really good, he could make it just as good without the fluff restrictions. I'm not even sure I could do that, though.

    Ok, fair enough. To be honest, i've only read the MM3 and a few passing fluffy bits on the web. However, I don't want to go the route of it being a sweet talker because I have the horrible feeling the class will end up depending on how much NPC contact they get, and how far they're allowed to bluff/be a diplomancer. And I LIKE the auras. I don't mind using a different shade of fluff, though.

    Also, no-one's said anything on the crunch yet. Good? Bad? Any suggestions?
    Not sweet talker. Where the hell did you get sweet talker? They're just friggin' scary.
    And I don't like the auras. For one, they're bland- nothing really unique- and for two, they don't fit the fluff. If you want a marshal-esque monster, you really shouldn't have done an ultroloth.
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  8. - Top - End - #68
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    Default Re: Improved Monster Classes IV

    Oh dear lord........WHY do I always end up doing scary but not very physically strong homebrew? First the Cheshire Cat, then the Slender Man vestige, now this........I shall try again with the auras, only i'll make then penalties for enemies.
    Last edited by TheGeckoKing; 2010-12-01 at 11:57 AM.

  9. - Top - End - #69
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    Default Re: Improved Monster Classes IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post
    No, no. You know that one power? The one that involves that one thing that the object you want to use doesn't qualify for? Yeah, that one. Murphy's law dictates that that power will be the most powerful one optimization wise.
    Okay. Fair enough. I see what you are saying. Problem is, I'm not positive how to fix it, because I don't feel like doing away with all requirements is the answer here.

    That was more design philosophy than meant for this class. Strict requirements wouldn't work for this, I agree... and thus there should be no requirements.
    But then I feel I wouldn't be able to work in all the abilities that I should. Okay, book with a secret compartment. Mirror with a flute inside? Hollow blanket as a canteen? Glowing chairs? Backpack with runes inscribed on it?

    There comes to a point where I feel like there has to be some kind of limit on what type of object you are, and what abilities you can get as that type of object.

    Furthermore, in regard to the movement speeds, I'm not sure what the issue is, unless I do away with the fluff requirement. The improved movement speed based on the animated object monster in the first place. Can you really picture a living carriage being just as slow as a poor lonely little candle, hopping along on the ground using its one stumpy base?

    Um, so what if he's not a great homebrewer? I'm not a great homebrewer. Nobody on this thread is. There are probably 2 or 3 people on this forum who are "great homebrewers".
    The point of that was, if he was really, really good, he could make it just as good without the fluff restrictions. I'm not even sure I could do that, though.
    I'm not even really going to comment on this, other than to say: Come on. You had to have realized that it would come across as insulting. Which it did.
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  10. - Top - End - #70
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    Default Re: Improved Monster Classes IV

    Wereraptor


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    Prerequisites:

    Race: Any Medium or Small humanoid or giant.
    Special: Must have been injured by the natural attack of another wereraptor and contracted lycanthropy

    HD: d8
    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
    1st|+0|+0|+2|+0|Alternate form (Raptor), Raptor empathy, Lunar body, Raptor Traits, Graceful Leap
    2nd|+1|+0|+3|+0|Alternate form (hybrid), Lunar hide
    3rd|+2|+1|+3|+1|+1 Wis, Raptor teamwork, Shrink
    4th|+3|+1|+4|+1|Curse of lycantropy, Swift blows[/table]


    Skills: (4+Int modifier) Intimidate (Cha) Spot (Wis) Survival (Wis) Jump (Str) Listen (Wis) Hide (Dex) Handle Animal (Wis) Knowledge (Nature) (Int)

    Proficiencies: A wereraptor gains proficiency with their own natural weapons.

    Features:

    Lunar body(ex): Wereraptors retain old racial modifiers and gain the shapechanger subtype. They gain low-light vision if they did not already possess it.
    A wereraptor gains natural armor equal to its con bonus while in raptor or hybrid form. While in humanoid form their natural armor is equal to half their con bonus

    Raptor empathy: A wereraptor can communicate with raptors (and other raptor-like magical beasts) regardless of form and gains a +4 bonus on charisma based checks to influence such animals, however he gains no bonus on influencing magical beasts.

    Alternate Form(su):At first level, a wereraptor can take on a medium raptor form by using a Full-Round Action that provokes an attack of opportunity. At 7 HD this changes to a Standard Action and at 14 HD this changes to a Move Action, at 20 HD this changes to a Swift Action. While in raptor form, a wereraptor cannot use weapons or do anything requiring the use of hands, but gains two talon attacks dealing 1d6+Str damage, moves at a speed of 60 ft and he gains a bite attack that does 1d8+Str damage.

    A wereraptor can transform 1/day/HD, and can remain transformed indefinitely.

    Unlike normal creatures with Alternate Forms the Wereraptor gains the hit points increase from any change to its Constitution.

    For every level in wereraptor, or for every two in another class, the wereraptor's alternate form improves as shown below

    {table=head]Wereraptor level +1/2 other levels|Ability Improvements
    1|+1 Dex
    2|+1 Dex +1 Str
    3|+2 Dex, +1 Str
    4|+2 Dex, +2 Str
    5|+3 Dex, +2 Str
    6|+3 Dex, +3 Str
    7|+4 Dex, +3 Str
    8|+4 Dex, +4 Str
    9|+5 Dex, +4 Str
    11|+5 Dex, +5 Str
    11|+6 Dex, +5 Str
    12|+6 Dex, +6 Str[/table]


    At second level, a wereraptor can assume hybrid form by using a standard action. They can wield any weapons they could use in humanoid form and are able to speak. A wereraptor in alternate form gains a +4 bonus to jump checks.

    Raptor Traits: A wereraptor in raptor form gains scent and gains a bonus on all hide skill checks equal to half his HD. This increases to a hide bounus equal to his full HD if the wereraptor makes a full-round action to hide. At second level his Raptor Traits ability works regardless of form.

    Graceful Leap At first level, a Wereraptor in alternate form can easily jump over certain obsticals. He may charge over climbable objects 5 feet or smaller as long as the wereraptor spends the same amount of movement that he would use to climb it normally.

    Lunar hide: At second level, a wereraptor gains DR/Silver equal to their HD/2 while in alternate form.

    Shrink: At 3rd level, a wereraptor's raptor form can become Small or Medium. In addition their natural armor improves by 1 while in alternate form.

    A wereraptor of 12 HD or more may choose to become Tiny by expending two normal transformations.

    A wereraptor of 16 HD or more may choose to become Diminutive by expending three normal transformations.

    A wereraptor of 20 HD or more may choose to become Fine by expending four normal transformations.

    Raptor teamwork: Starting at third level a wereraptor learns how to more successfully work with others. He gains an extra +1 bonus to aid another rolls that he makes. This also applies to anyone attempting to use aid another on him. The wereraptor also gains a +3 bonus to attack rolls against an opponent he is flanking. This flanking bonus is also given to the other flankers flanking that opponent. These abilities are only useable in raptor form

    Swift blows: At fourth level a wereraptor learns how to observe effectively and take advantage of weakness. He gains a +1 bonus to hit for every consecutive attack of the same type against the target. For example, if you delivered an attack in the previous round, you would gain a +1 attack bonus this round. if you struck the foe with an attack in the round after, it would go to +2 If you connected in the subsequent round, it would be +3, and so on. This caps at 1.5 times the HD of the wereraptor (ie. +6 max at 4HD). This ability is only useable in raptor form.

    Curse of lycanthropy: At 4th level a wereraptor can transmit lycanthropy to other creatures. If a medium or large humanoid or giant is hit by their natural attacks while they are in alternate form, the creature must make a fortitude save (DC10+1/2HD+Con modifier) or contract lycanthropy. For more information on lycanthropy, check the lycanthrope entry in the monster manual.


    Changelog:
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    Edited last skill to have two pathways.
    Small grammar edits.
    Made raptor form have abilities hybrid does not.
    Added 6 more levels.
    Balanced stomach damage and spells per day/maw of the titans by HD.
    made con a more important stat.
    Took ChumpLump's advice and balanced stats, saves, HD, and size.
    Took more advice and edited last two skills, removed improved grab, and made a 6/6 perfection on stats.
    made sneak attack need a jump, took out capstone and added a new one, and fixed size adjustments accordingly.
    Edited size, claw damage, and sneak pounce skill to just flanked opponents.
    Re-did last 2 skills.
    Re did them again.
    Buffed up animal form & changed last ability.
    Made fixes according to ChumpLump's advice (too lazy to write down all now :P)


    Comments:
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    Big. Freakin'. Dino. The simplicity of this class is amusing because it's very narrow, just Charge, Pounce, and tear at a nervous system.


    Hmm? I think it work with the rules now.
    Last edited by Betropper; 2010-12-05 at 06:06 PM.
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  11. - Top - End - #71
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    Default Re: Improved Monster Classes IV

    Table says Swift Blows, text says Raptor Adaptability..?
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    Default Re: Improved Monster Classes IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    Table says Swift Blows, text says Raptor Adaptability..?
    Thanks, fixed.
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    Default Re: Improved Monster Classes IV

    Happy to help!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

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    Default Re: Improved Monster Classes IV

    Valkyrie has been updated, btw.
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    Default Re: Improved Monster Classes IV

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGeckoKing View Post
    To celebrate my first endorsed monster.....

    Ultroloth

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    HD: D8
    {TABLE]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Feature
    1| +1| +0| +0| +2| Yugoloth Body, Weapons of Ruin.
    2| +2| +0| +0| +3| Daemonic Aura I
    3| +3| +1| +1| +3| Basic Yugoloth Magic
    4| +4| +1| +1| +4| Hypnotic Gaze
    5| +5| +1| +1| +4| Daemonic Aura II
    6| +6| +2| +2| +5| Intermediate Yugoloth Magic
    7| +7| +2| +2| +5| Telepathy, Trickster General
    8| +8| +2| +2| +6| Daemonic Aura III
    9| +9| +3| +3| +6| Greater Yugoloth Magic
    10|+10| +3| +3| +7| Immunities, All-Seeing Eyes
    11|+11| +3| +3| +7| Daemonic Aura IIII
    12|+12| +4| +4| +8| Greatest Yugoloth Magic
    13|+13| +4| +4| +8| General's Mount
    [/TABLE]
    Abitity increase??
    Skills: 6+int modifier per level, quadruple at first level. Class skills are Climb, Craft (Any one), Diplomacy, Intimidate, Bluff, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Spellcraft, Ride, Spot, Spellcraft, Concentration, and Knowledge (Taken seperatly).

    Proficiencies
    The Ultroloth has proficiency in all simple and martial weapons, one exotic weapon of your choice (can't be changed after choosing), and light and medium armor.

    Yugoloth Body: The Ultroloth loses all revious racial traits and gains Outsider traits (Basically Darkvison 60ft), with a land speed of 30ft and two claw attacks dealing 1d4 damage. Ultroloths can speak Common, Infernal and Abyssal.

    Weapon of Ruin: All your natural attacks and any weapon you wield count as evil aligned for the sake of over-coming damage reduction.

    Daemonic Aura I: As a born leader of the Yugoloths, you give off strength and power in a measurable aspect not unlike the mortal adventurers called Marshals. To activate your Daemonic Aura takes a swift action, and to dismiss it only requires a free action. You normally activate your Aura by intimidating, cajoling or enticing anyone in range to better serve your purposes. Your aura affects all sentient (3+ INT) allies within 40ft of your person, and is dismissed automatically if you cannot be heard for some reason (Silence spell, Dazed etc). At Level 2, you gain a simple aura - Any ally within range of your aura gains a +1 to attack rolls.
    What type of bonus??

    Basic Yugoloth Magic: Whenever you would gain an SLA from your Ultroloth levels, treat your HD as the spell's CL, and the DC as (10+CHA Mod+ 1/2 HD) when applicable. At Level 3, you gain Invisibility, Desecrate, Scorching Ray and Fear as SLA's useable once per day for every 2HD you have.

    Hypnotic Gaze: As Hypnotic Pattern (the spell), only you add 4 to your CL instead of 2d4 to determine the total HD of creatures affected. At 18HD, your Hypnotic Gaze has no HD limit to how many creatures can be affected.
    ??What action?Is It a sla?(You just say what it does)
    Daemonic Aura II: At Level 5, your aura's range increases to 60ft, and anyone within range of your aura gains +2 morale bonus to all Fortitude saves, and Fast Healing 1. At Level 11, this increases to Fast Healing 2.
    Fast healing 1 is kinda bad, I would give it 1/4 or 1/3 of it's Hd for fast healing as well as the fortitude save .Also why exacly do they get a fortitude save?
    Intermediate Yugoloth Magic: You gain Deeper Darkness, Ray of Enfeeblement and Alter Self as SLA's useable once per day for every 3HD you have.

    Telepathy: You can communicate telepathically with any creature that has a language within 100ft.

    Chatty General: You gain a +5 bonus to Bluff, Intimidate and Diplomacy.
    Wouldnt these 2 abilityies be able to fit in 1??It would be a better one and also make the telepathy have a range of 20ft+10ft/hd
    Daemonic Aura III: Anyone ally within your aura's range gains a +5 bonus to Intimidate checks, and DR 5/Silver. At Level 13, this increases to DR 10/Silver.
    Dr should be 1/2Hd Also shouldnt you just get the intimidate check?(it dosent make sence for someone to get scairer just beacuse he's with you)
    Greater Yugoloth Magic: You gain Gaseous Form, Enervation, Prying Eyes, and Scrying as SLA's useable once per day for every 4HD you have.

    Immunities: You become immune to all poisons and all acids
    Resitances equal to HD would be better

    All-Seeing Eyes: You gain a permanent See Invisibility effect on your person. At 15HD, this becomes True Seeing.

    Daemonic Aura IIII: Firstly, your Aura's range increases to 80ft. Secondly, anyone within your Aura's range gains the benefits of the Bear's Endurance, and See Invisibility spells.
    It a tad powerfull, it practacly a permantent +4 enacement bonus(16000 gp) to all your allies(normally you dont really move far from your oppontents).
    Greatest Yugoloth Magic: You gain Geas, Suggestion (Mass), Wall of Fire and Lesser Planar Binding as SLA's useable once per day for every 5HD you have. As long as you summon the creature within your Aura's range, you may treat your Aura as a Magic Circle for the sake of casting Lesser Planar Binding.

    General's Mount: You aquire a personal mount from the the Gehenna Stables to ride into battle. You gain an animal companion from the Druid Animal Companion List, with your effective Druid Level equal to your HD-6, and the animal you choose must be Large sized or bigger, but it gains the Fiendish Creature template for free, and you gain a +10 untyped bonus to Ride checks.
    It's nice but I dont know, it just dosent seem very interesting. Oh wow a large+ animal but animals arent that great especally at higher levels.


    Comments:
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    As you can imagine, I was going for a Leadership role with the Ultroloth - They lead a bunch of greedy mercs into battle, so they're good at generally being leaders. They also have a bunch of SLA's and small effects so they can hold their own in combat. If I can be bothered later, I might make a Yugoloth General Prc that lets him convert his SLA's into Summon Monster spells, a bit like Druid's ability, and grants him bigger mounts and better Planar Binding spells and stuff.


    Changes:
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    None so far, but i'm sure there's gonna be a few. There always is


    This class is quite balanced and reminds me of a marshal, Maybe you should try to make a bit more like one.Listen to Gorgon
    Gecko King, This is my review, you must of missed it.
    Last edited by monkman; 2010-12-01 at 04:47 PM.
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    Default Re: Improved Monster Classes IV

    You are going to kill me Monkman, but you posted your (good) review just as I finished heavily editing the Ultroloth, and was about to say, so....um.... sorry . It's mostly the same abilities, just made into penalties for your opponents, so it's not too different.
    Last edited by TheGeckoKing; 2010-12-01 at 04:54 PM.

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    Default Re: Improved Monster Classes IV

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGeckoKing View Post
    You are going to kill me Monkman, but you posted your (good) review just as I finished heavily editing the Ultroloth, and was about to say, so....um....sorry . It's mostly the same abilities, just made into penalties for your opponents, so it's not too different.
    No, Im not going to kill you.I'll just have to review the other version.
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    Default Re: Improved Monster Classes IV

    Oh, that's good! The party cleric has a few diamonds, so I would of been OK anyway. And thanks for always reviewing anything I make.

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    Simple Daemonic Aura I (Su): As a born fearmonger, you give off energies in a measurable aspect not unlike the mortal adventurers called Marshals. The main difference is that your aura debilitates your enemies, rather than help anyone. You are far to greedy for that. To activate your Daemonic Aura takes a swift action, and to dismiss it only requires a free action. Your aura affects all sentient (3+ INT) enemies within 40ft of your person. At Level 2, you gain a simple aura - Any enemy within range of your aura gains a -1 morale penalty to attack rolls. While your aura is up, all non-allies automatically become Unfriendly towards you.
    The 1 after the aura should be tooken out.

    Damaging Daemonic Aura: At Level 5, your aura's range increases to 60ft, and any enemy within range of your aura gains -1 morale penalty to all Fortitude saves, and takes 2 points of damage for every round they spend in the aura's range. At Level 11, this increases to 5 points of damage.
    Why would people get a -1 to fortitude,A wisdom or reflex would be better,Also a -1 penalty isnt that big, I would go more 1 penalty/3HD or 1 penalty/4HD for penalty.The damage would be either 1 point/3Hd or 1 point/4Hd

    Aging Daemonic Aura: You gain a +5 bonus to Intimidate checks against ayone within your Aura, and your enemies gain physical penalties as if they were one age category older (they gain no mental bonus). Venerable and Immortal creatures are unaffected.
    This ability is nice but really but the intimidate bonus should scale with hd(1/2HD)Also losing 1 dex,con and str(for most cases) wont really do much.maybe make it lose 1 point/5Hd.What happens when they leave and is there some way to resist it other than being venerable and immortal(saving throw?)?

    Daemonic Fear Aura: Anyone with less HD than you and is within your aura's range that sees you make an attack or make a successful Intimidate check must make a Will Save (DC equal to your SLA's DC) or be panicked for one round. Anyone who fails their will save to avoid being panicked becomes immune to your aura's fear effect for 24 hours.
    I think the code for this is
    Save=10+1/2Hd + cha modifier
    If less than half HD+fail=panicked
    If less than half HD+succes=frightented
    If more than half Hd+fail=Frightented
    If more than half Hd+succes=nothing
    You cannot effect anyone that has more HD than you.

    Bonded in Service: By one way or another, you "aquire" a personal servant from Gehenna to serve your whims. You gain a Mezzoloth as a cohort that is always Friendly towards you, but cannot take the Leadership feat, or any other version of it (Like Undead Leadership). If your Mezzoloth servant would be slain, you may aquire another one by summoning it via a ritual that takes one hour and 500gp worth of reagents.
    Capstone is nice but you dont say how you determin the level or Hd.

    The rest of my comment still stand and for ability increase i would give it cha and maybe some dex or str.
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    Default Re: Improved Monster Classes IV

    Thoes be good comments. Give me a moment, and i'll implement them.
    Edit: Edits have been made, but you won't get a response from me until tomorrow. Until then, good night.
    Last edited by TheGeckoKing; 2010-12-01 at 07:11 PM.

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    Default Re: Improved Monster Classes IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Magicyop View Post
    Okay. Fair enough. I see what you are saying. Problem is, I'm not positive how to fix it, because I don't feel like doing away with all requirements is the answer here.

    But then I feel I wouldn't be able to work in all the abilities that I should. Okay, book with a secret compartment. Mirror with a flute inside? Hollow blanket as a canteen? Glowing chairs? Backpack with runes inscribed on it?
    Just give out the abilities and don't say how it's done- the player can figure it out. And if they can't, no big deal. If you're going to say they have to sacrifice crunch for fluff, well, shouldn't they be able to sacrifice fluff for crunch?

    There comes to a point where I feel like there has to be some kind of limit on what type of object you are, and what abilities you can get as that type of object.
    That's fine. I've already said that's fine. It would be really cool if you could work around that- I would try myself, though I'm not sure I'd succeed- but if you can't, that's fine. Just make it so that it's not a problem, which will likely include at least tripling the amount of abilities you originally had. Or, take my above advice. Or, allow literal upgrades- it's an object, why can't the leg of the chair be drilled into a flute? Or the bed get a storage compartment on the bottom?

    Furthermore, in regard to the movement speeds, I'm not sure what the issue is, unless I do away with the fluff requirement. The improved movement speed based on the animated object monster in the first place. Can you really picture a living carriage being just as slow as a poor lonely little candle, hopping along on the ground using its one stumpy base?
    Regardless, it's flat out unfair. Can you really see a 4'10" tall elf lady be as strong as a 6'6" human? And yet, by the rules, it happens. Just give a movement speed increase upgrade choice and they can pretend it never happened- maybe give another free object power at 1st or 2nd level to balance it out?

    I'm not even really going to comment on this, other than to say: Come on. You had to have realized that it would come across as insulting. Which it did.
    You're also not a supra-genius. Are you insulted now?
    No, I didn't. I'm sorry if it did. Perhaps great wasn't a good word- more like... brilliant? Flawless? I was aiming to get you to try, but apparently that backfired. Anyways, no offense intended whatsoever.
    Last edited by Gorgondantess; 2010-12-01 at 07:06 PM.
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    Default Re: Improved Monster Classes IV

    Valkyrie: I don't really like how some abilities are stances/maneuvers and some are just... there. Duelist is good, storm rider is good, electrical weapons is... OK, but I feel like Lady of the Storm should be a stance as well. Thoughts?
    Also, it shouldn't "lose this ability" under maneuvers. Initiating levels are initiating levels- just use the same text as the Reth Dekala. By the way, I'll be limiting it to 4 disciplines of choice on that one, as well- good call.
    Maneuvers pile up too quickly- they're meant to progress logarithmically. Linear on a 4 level scale is OK- linear on a 9th level scale is not. I'd advise to cut the stances down to 2 and not get maneuvers on those levels. They already progress enough in power as is, anyways.
    Also, can't believe I missed this before- 1st level needs something.

    Living Spell: Don't forget it for the Living Spell. That's your 1st priority right now.

    Cheshire Cat & Arcadian Avenger are added.
    Last edited by Gorgondantess; 2010-12-01 at 07:15 PM.
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    Default Re: Improved Monster Classes IV

    Okay so I've knocked everything back a level until Growth, so it gets maneuvers at 1st now. I've removed the line about losing that ability and I've change lightning weaponry into a boost and lady of the storm into a stance. I also increased the power of lightning weaponry, since it's basically 1/encounter rather than permanent, so it's now 1d6/2HD.
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    Default Re: Improved Monster Classes IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Niezck View Post
    Okay so I've knocked everything back a level until Growth, so it gets maneuvers at 1st now. I've removed the line about losing that ability and I've change lightning weaponry into a boost and lady of the storm into a stance. I also increased the power of lightning weaponry, since it's basically 1/encounter rather than permanent, so it's now 1d6/2HD.
    Ehem.
    "A valkyrie has an initiator level equal to its class level."
    A valkyrie's abilities are significantly more powerful than a warblade or swordsage's.

    Also, too many ability score bonuses- cut it down to either +8 or +6. Also, it still doesn't really get anything at level 1, as it gets no maneuvers and no stances that level.
    Lightning gaze... might want to cut off the limited uses and change it to a simple "if the save is made, immune for 24 hours."
    Looking good, though. We're getting there.
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    Thorn (MMIII Pg 172)



    Class
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    Hit Die: d6

    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Abilities|Ability Boosts

    1st|+0|+0|+2|+2|Body of Thorns, Weapon of Thorns, Training or Talent|+1 Dex. +1 Wis or Cha
    2nd|+1|+0|+3|+3|Protection of the Courts, Sneak Attack +1d6|+1 Dex
    3rd|+2|+1|+3|+3|Slumbering Shots|+1 Dex. +1 Wis or Cha
    4th|+3|+1|+4|+4|Piercing Strikes, Weapon of Barbs, Sneak Attack +2d6|+1 Dex[/table]

    Skill Points at 1st Level: (6 + Int Mod) x4
    Skill Points at each additional Level: 6 + Int modifier

    Class Skills: Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Nature, Nobility and Royalty) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis)

    Proficiencies: Thorns are proficient with all simple weapons, plus the longbow, longsword, rapier, shortbow, shortsword and whip. They are also proficient with light armour, bucklers and light shields

    Body of Thorns: A Thorn loses all other racial characteristics and becomes a creature of the Fey type with the following traits:
    • Small Size
    • Base Land Speed 20ft
    • Low-light Vision
    • A natural armour bonus equal to their constitution modifier


    Weapon of Thorns (Ex): Thorns are trained to use special weapons and ammunition, crafted with many barbs to create a very thorn-like appearance. While wielding such a weapon a Thorn adds his dexterity modifier as a bonus to damage and can freely deal either lethal or non-lethal damage. Additionally he may inflict slashing or piercing damage in place of a weapon's standard damage type. Creatures without this ability take a -2 penalty while wielding a Weapon of Thorns weapon due to the added difficulty and gain no benefits from doing so.

    When without a thorned weapon and within a natural environment a Thorn may use some small power granted by the faerie courts to transform a weapon into a thorned one, or grow thorns from their skin (should they possess a natural armour score) or whatever they strike with for unarmed attacks. This process takes five minutes per individual weapon, or for a batch of 50 ammunition pieces. This only transforms the weapon's appearance, it still benefits from any properties of the material used in its original construction or those imbued with magical enchantments. This process is a supernatural ability and lasts as long as the weapon is in the Thorn's possession, and for up to one minute after it leaves.

    Training or Talent: Upon taking the first level of the Thorn monster class, the Thorn chooses whether his powers come from the natural and wild talents of the Fey or focused training and discipline in their arts. Those that choose talent use Charisma to govern the effects of their special abilities, while Wisdom is used for those choosing Training.

    Ability Boosts: Starting at first level Thorns gain a +1 bonus to dexterity for every class level gained for a total of +4 Dexterity at fourth level. Additionally the Thorn gains a +1 bonus to the ability score he chose as part of his Training or Talent ability (Wisdom or Charisma) at every odd level, giving a total of +2 to that score.

    Protection of the Courts (Ex): Through training and devotion to their courts, Thorns of second level realize a new potential in their blood. They gain DR/cold iron equal to half their HD.

    Sneak Attack (Ex): Like rogues, Thorns naturally excel at combat when they can catch their foes off-guard or otherwise unable to defend themselves properly. At second level they gain Sneak Attack as per the Rogue ability, dealing an extra 1d6 points of damage when they meet the requirements. At fourth level their sneak attack bonus dice improves to 2d6. This stacks with any other sources of sneak attack damage, such as from levels in the rogue class.

    If the Thorn later gains any level in a class that grants a skirmish or sudden strike progression, it can choose to lose the sneak attack granted by this racial class and instead stack its level in Thorn with the levels in that class to determine the ability's effectiveness. So a Thorn 4/Scout 8 could lose the 2d6 sneak attack, and determine his skirmish damage as though he was a 12th level scout.

    When dealing non-lethal damage with his Weapon of Thorns ability any sneak attack, skirmish or sudden strike damage is also dealt as non-lethal damage.

    Slumbering Shots (Su): Drawing from the power of their lineage, third level Thorns and higher can form and fire arrow-like thorn projectiles imbued with the power of slumber. Treat this as a standard action ranged attack that requires a free hand, and deals 1d6 points of piercing or slashing damage with a range increment of 5ft per HD. Thorns with iterative attacks can make multiple shots in a round, but must take a full-round action to do so. A Thorn can make up to 2*HD shots per day, but no more than HD/3 (minimum 1) shots per round.

    Alternately, a thorn can use a slumbering shot in place of a ranged weapon's standard ammunition, taking the form of an arrow, crossbow bolt, or sling bullet. When done as such use the weapon's damage and range increment instead, but the projectile still does slashing or piercing damage (unless fired from a sling, then it may choose to do bludgeoning damage instead). As with standard ammunition, the projectile benefits from the weapon's enchantments.

    Any creature damaged by one of this arrows must succeed on a Fortitude save (DC of 10 + ˝ HD + Cha mod for Talent Thorns or Wis mod for Training Thorns) or be affected as though by a sleep spell (CL=HD), regardless of HD. Even on a successful save the creature must continue to make an additional save each round the projectile remains lodged from the Thorn's Piercing Strikes ability (see below).

    The slumbering shots of a Thorn of at least 10HD can affect creatures normally immune to their sleep effect, though instead of falling asleep on a failed save the magic induces a slow effect as per the spell (CL=HD). However at the end of their turn the creature is entitled to another save, a success suppressing the slow effect one round. The creature continues to make saves until it accumulates a number of successes equal to the number arrows stuck in it from the Piercing Strikes ability.

    Piercing Strikes (Ex): Thorns of fourth level gain additional benefits in combat depending on the type of weapon they are wielding.

    Melee: The spikes and thorns on melee weapons allow the Thorn to bypass defences and deal damage to some of the more protected targets. Successful melee attacks made by the thorn treat their damage done as 50% higher for the purposes of concentration checks made by their targets as a result of the attack. Against creatures normally immune to precision damage, the thorn instead deals half damage with any such attacks (such as sneak attack), if he gain this ability from another source, he can deal full damage to those creatures.

    Ranged: The barbs on thorned thrown weapons and pieces of ammunition cause them to get stuck in the wounds they make, removal of these takes a move action and deals damage equal the the weapon's base die. Alternately a standard action and DC 15 heal check can be used to remove one safely. Having these weapons stuck make movement difficult, and bestows a -1 penalty to attack rolls, armour class, and skills relating to movement (Balance, Climb, Jump, Tumble, Swim) per weapon to a maximum penalty equal to the Thorn's Cha mod for Talent Thorns or Wis mod for Training Thorns until removed. Further saves against the Thorn's slumbering shots ability are made at a penalty of -1 per two stuck slumbering arrow, bolt or bullet.

    Weapon of Barbs (Su): Sometimes a Thorn may find himself faced with a challenge in which his weapon is not sufficient. Those of fourth level may empower a thorned weapon they are wielding, increasing it's enhancement bonus to a maximum of +1 and grant a +1 equivalent weapon special ability. As the Thorn advances in HD their ability to enhance their weapon also increases. At 6, 10, 14, and 18 HD the enhancement bonus provided increases, to a maximum of +5 at 18 HD. The equivalent bonus of provided weapon special abilities similarly increases by +1 at 8, 12, 16, and 20 HD, with a total of +5 equivalent at 20 HD. These special abilities are chosen anew whenever the thorn acquires a new HD and apply to all weapons used with the ability. So a fourth level Thorn could choose Keen, turning weapons into +1 Keen Weapons, but upon gaining another level decide to replace Keen and make his weapons +1 Merciful Weapons.

    This ability takes a swift action to activate but only a free action to deactivate. A thorn can provide this effect for up to a number of rounds per encounter equal to half his Cha mod for Talent Thorns or Wis mod for Training Thorns.


    Subduing Strike Adaptation
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    For those Interested in a Thorn more focused on taking down an opponent without killing them, I have preserved the original Subduing Strikes ability below. A Thorn making use of this variant does not gain sneak attack at second level, nor the improvement at 4th, instead it gains the ability detailed below:

    Subduing Strike (Ex): Continuing to advance in skill with their thorned weapons, Thorns of second level can deal an additional 1d8 points of damage when striking non-lethally. This increases to 2d8 points of nonlethal damage at fourth level. Creatures immune to critical hits are not immune to a Thorn's subduing strikes. If a Thorn gains the ability to strike non-lethally without penalty from another class, he increases his subduing strike damage by 1d8 while striking non-lethally.

    Some of this training is still effective when dealing lethal damage, but to a diminished effect. He can deal half his subduing strike damage when striking a target that he flanks or is denied it's dexterity bonus to AC when dealing lethal damage.

    You may treat subduing strike as sneak attack for the purposes of qualifying for feats and prestige classes. Thorn's with levels in classes that advance sneak attack can choose to advance their subduing strike damage instead of sneak attack. Those that posses both sneak attack and subduing strike damage can deal both in the same attack, so long as the requirements for both are met. Thorns can stack additional types of extra damage dice, but as with steak attack must all the different requirements for what the want to apply (which for subduing strikes is dealing non-lethal damage).


    Changelog
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    December 3rd
    • Rolled DR and NA into one ability, renamed 'Protection of the Courts.'
    • Fixed some spelling errors.
    • Weapon of Thorns updated to quantify pieces of ammunition effected.
    • Subduing strikes tweaked to allow for later advancement through PrCs.
    • Slumbering shots tweak to make less abusable and more straight forward.
    • Weapon of Barbs changed to make it a bit more versatile and effective.

    December 7th
    • Spelling Corrections
    • Minor tweak to Weapon of Thorns
    • Removed said tweaked, attached to Subduing Strikes instead

    December 9th
    • More Weapon of Thorns tweaks
    • Moved proficiencies placement in the text
    • Moved natural armour back to first
    • Subduing Strike's nature clarified along with it's interaction with sneak attack.

    December 10th
    • Made some spelling corrections
    • Opened up the weapon usage with slumbering shots.
    • Small wording change to weapon of barbs to reflect changes to slumbering shots.
    • Increased ability boosts to make 1st level more appealing

    December 12th
    • Weapon of Thorn's enhancement gaining process overhauled.
    • Slumbering Shots also overhauled.
    • Changed wording on slumbering shots from struck to damaged.
    • Added additional utility against constructs and undead
    • Added some scaling to weapon of barbs melee aspect.

    December 13th
    • Another spelling correction
    • Weapon of Thorns imbuement ability duration reduced
    • Subduing strike interaction with damage sources other the sneak attack clarified.
    • Weapon of Barbs melee ability clarified further.

    December 18th
    • Slight change to the effects of having a Slumbering Shot stuck in the target
    • Added Wisdom functionality to Weapon of Barbs.
    • Weapon of Barbs ranged ability tweaked slightly.
    • Subduing Strike relegated to an adaptation, Thorns now gain sneak attack.
    • Subduing Strike has also been tweaked.
    • Capped the penalty to dexterity from Weapon of Barbs at the Thorn's wisdom modifier.
    • Added Training or Talent ability, abilities function off a choice of charisma or wisdom.
    • Added Heal as a class skill in case a Thorn want to remove his weapons safely from a target.
    • Weapon of Thorns enchanting ability clarified.

    December 23rd
    • Updated table to reflect the base class gaining sneak attack

    January 3rd (2011)
    • Added a cap to slumbering shots fired in a round

    January 12th
    • Clarification added to the table on ability boost gains.
    • Clarified how the reselection of special abilities for Weapon of Thorns works.
    • Removed awkwardness from the wording on the ability to transform normal weapon into thorned weapons.
    • Added some additional notes on stacking the Thorn's Sneak Attack with other classes.
    • Fixed spelling errors and awkward wording for Slumbering Shots.
    • Instances of 'chosen ability mod' replaced with 'Cha mod for Talent Thorns or Wis mod for Training Thorns'.
    • Updated Weapon of Barbs's melee benefit to Subduing strikes to reflect that ability's removal.
    • Clarified how the penalties for ranged Weapon of Barbs work.

    February 3rd
    • Weapon of Barbs changed to cover Weapon of Thorns's enhancing effect instead.
    • Weapon of Barbs's previous effect retained under 'Piercing Strikes.'
    • Specified that the enhancing ability provides the bonus for a number of rounds in an encounter, rather then overall. Noticed that aside from the round limit there were no other usage qualifiers.
    • Staggered out the gains from the enhancement ability.
    • Piercing Strikes melee aspect changed to make more competitive.
    • Weapon of Thorns/Barbs can now be used with unarmed strikes.

    February 4th
    • Spelling corrections!
    • Correcting some outdated references to abilities.
    • Slight tweak to the 10HD advancement of slumbering shots.
    • Ranged Piercing Strikes penalty against Slumbering Shots toned down slightly.
    • Weapon of Barbs duration reduced

    February 5th
    • Dex to damage moved to first level.
    • Removed non-essential line and correction some spelling on Weapon of Barbs.
    • Weapon of Barbs interaction with magical weapons clarified.

    February 11th
    • Reduced benefits to Piercing Strikes's melee portion
    • Removed bonuses to slumbering shots for the target having nonlethal damage.

    April 2nd
    • Cleaned up and updated the class to follow current formatting conventions.


    Comments
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    Thorns were interesting, and a bit smaller of a class then I thought when I originally got the concept down. Their thorn weapons were cool, and I liked the fluff and sleeping arrows. Building on that I put him together with a sort of control focus, taking down enemies in a condition to imprison or try them in the Fey Courts afterwords. Subduing Strikes was initially used d8s, since it takes more subdual damage to take someone down, but I reduced it to d6s when I started adding everything else.

    I'm not completely happy with Weapon of Barbs ranged feature, but that's what feedback and suggestions are for.

    The Marrash is mostly complete as well, but I'm heading out tonight and I'm more of a one-at-a-time type guy, so I'm going to finish and work on polishing him up behind the scenes for when the Thorn's finished.
    Last edited by Zemro; 2011-04-02 at 11:17 AM.

  26. - Top - End - #86
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    Default Re: Improved Monster Classes IV

    Well I've removed the multiclassing part, so hopefully that should make it a bit more balanced. Also swapped sonic clap and maneuvers around, so it gets something useable at 1st level. I wouldn't say that a 1d4 sonic clap with DC 10+Cha to negate is broken at level 1, so hopefully it's OK.

    I've also changed the wording on lightning gaze as you requested and downed the stat boosts to a total of +8.
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  27. - Top - End - #87
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    Default Re: Improved Monster Classes IV

    Spoiler
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    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Abilities|Ability Boosts

    1st|+0|+0|+2|+2|Body of Thorns, Weapon of Thorns|
    2nd|+1|+0|+3|+3|Barked Skin, Subduing Strike +1d6|+1 Dex
    3rd|+2|+1|+3|+3|Slumbering Shots|
    4th|+3|+1|+4|+4|Weapon of Barbs, Subduing Strike +2d6|+1 Dex[/table]
    The ability increases would be better not writen on the table(it's kinda ulgy)

    Body of Thorns: A Thorn looses all other racial characteristics and becomes a creature of the Fey type with the following traits:
    • Small Size
    • Base Land Speed 20ft
    • Low-light Vision
    • Proficiency with all simple weapons, plus the longbow, longsword, rapier, shortbow, shortsword and whip.
    • Proficiency with light armour, bucklers and light shields
    • DR/cold iron equal to half its HD.
    Profs should go just under the table,Dr should be in another ability

    Weapon of Thorns (Ex): Thorns are trained to use special weapons and ammunition, crafted with many barbs to create a very thorn-like appearance. While wielding such a weapon a Thorn can freely deal either leathal or non-lethal damage and may inflict slashing or piercing damage in place of a weapon's standard damage type. Creatures without this ability take a -2 penalty while wielding a Weapon of Thorns weapon due to the added difficulty and gain no benefits from doing so.

    When without such a weapon and within a natural environment a Thorn may use small power granted to them by the faerie courts and force the weapon to grow thorns in can take proper advantage of. This process takes five minutes and only changes the weapons appearance, it still benefits from any properties of the material used in its original construction or those imbued with magical enchantments. This is a supernatural ability.
    How long does this last?And what's the point of this ability?

    Subduing Strike (Ex): Continuing to advance in skill with their thorned weapons, Thorns of second level can deal an aditional 1d6 points of damage when striking non-leathaly. This increases to 2d6 points of non-leathal damage at fourth level.
    I would never use this.Why exacly would i want to non leathly hit someone?Most of the creatures arent really things that you want to save,

    Slumbering Shots (Ex): Taking cues from the pixies, Thorns of at least third (Level??) learn to make sleeping arrows. Any creature strick by one of this arrows must succeed on a Fortitude save with a DC of 10 + 1/2 HD + Wis Mod or be affected as though by a sleep spell, regardless of HD. If the creature has unhealed non-lethal damage or the attack itself deals non-lethal damage it recieved a -2 penalty to this save.

    Gathering the necesary ingredients takes a DC 15 survival check in a natural environment and one hour's work for every 20 arrows worth. For every 5 points by which a Thorn beats the DC he can gather an adition 20 arrows worth of ingredients at no extra cost in time. Mixing takes another half-hour and then they can be applied to an arrow as a standard action and last until used.
    This is a little overpowered,You can just make all you+your allies arrows have the sleep properity.At level 3 it can be quite powerfull.

    Melee: Against an offguard opponent a Thorn can use that edge to strip away their defences. Against a target that would be denied its dexterity bonus to AC or that the Thorn flanks, he reduces any natural armour bonus they posses by one per sucessful attack. Their natural armour bonus returns to normal after recieving 5 points of healing for every one point of natural armour removed.
    Unless,You dont really get flat footed enemies and 1 natural armor isnt that much.It also quite useless Vs humanoids.

    Ranged: The barbs on thorned thrown weapons and pieces of ammunition cause them to get stuck in the wounds they make, removal of these takes a move action and deals damage equal the the weapon's base die. Alternately a standard action and DC 15 heal check can be used to remove one safely. Aditionally, the Thorn can form the barbs on pieces of ammunition as part of the same action used to draw them.
    It's alright but in the battle you dont really take out arrows.
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  28. - Top - End - #88
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    Default Re: Improved Monster Classes IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post

    Living Spell: Don't forget it for the Living Spell. That's your 1st priority right now.

    Cheshire Cat & Arcadian Avenger are added.
    Don't worry, I haven't. I've been working on adding descriptions for all the spells, I should have it done before too long.

    I'll add a new featured monster momentarily.
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  29. - Top - End - #89
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    Default Re: Improved Monster Classes IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post
    Um, so what if he's not a great homebrewer? I'm not a great homebrewer. Nobody on this thread is. There are probably 2 or 3 people on this forum who are "great homebrewers".
    The point of that was, if he was really, really good, he could make it just as good without the fluff restrictions. I'm not even sure I could do that, though.
    It doesn´t matter who is what level of homebrewer. That's my point. It doesn't need to be pointed out, because it doesn't matter. The definition of a 'Great Homebrewer is vague' and expressing that you do not believe someone is will most likley read as insulting. If its unnessisary, and insulting, why have it?

    On a different note:
    My suggestions and reviews and discussions or whatever appropriate word will be delayed, as that I've come down with a nasty throat cold, and have found myself inable to keep up in my classes.
    Being sick hasn't helped matters much.

    Edit: And I found time.

    Werebear
    Thanks for your support Crafty Cultist.
    Skills look good.
    For bear alternate form speed, you might list what the Bear's speed is.
    40 feet base land speed, isn't it?
    Thanks for adding the Alternate form spoiler!
    Forager's nose is a fantastic name, and a great ability.
    Bear Hug: Fun! Uhm, but a bit strong. I'd probably bump it down to 2d6 damage + 2d6 per size category above medium. But that's just me. A (And only in Bear Form) caveat for the damage part would be nice. Great example of an ability that has benefits in more than one form, but offers great incentive to be in bear form! Love the suffocation bit, I'd toss in a mention if the creature has the opportunity to take a large breath of air (I assume no) because it changes how fast they suffocate.
    Indominable: Same suggestion of a (And only in Hybrid Form) reminder. Also, fun! Active defense! I like it. The diehard bit is in all forms, yes? May want to specify either way. Also I believe it is spelled “Indomitable.”
    Looks like a very fun class to me, and has a very Bear feel.

    Wereraptor
    This guy needs a name.
    Overhaul calls for Medium and Small or Medium and Large Prereqs.
    If he has 3/4 Bab, he needs 4+ Int Mod skills.
    Still needs: Handle Animal (Wis) and Knowledge (Nature) (Int).
    Being able to Jump as part of a charge should be a different ability than Alternate form.
    That bite attack is huge for Medium, but as a shrinker I see no problem with it... ah but he's a grower. I see wereraptors as shrinkers, but if you like them growing, I'm gunna recommend you reduce the bite attack to only 1 step higher than normal for a medium creature.
    Alternate form needs to specify that Unlike normal creatures with Alternate Forms the Wereraptor gains the hit points increase from any change to its Constitution.
    Can the Wereraptor not Speak in Hybrid form? Why?
    Alternate form needs the actions required to assume its form.

    I think a Progression more akin to this would be better:
    Spoiler
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    {table=head]Wereraptor level +1/2 other levels|Ability Improvements
    1|+1 Dex
    2|+1 Dex +1 Str
    3|+2 Dex, +1 Str
    4|+2 Dex, +2 Str
    5|+3 Dex, +2 Str
    6|+3 Dex, +3 Str
    7|+4 Dex, +3 Str
    8|+4 Dex, +4 Str
    9|+5 Dex, +4 Str
    10|+5 Dex, +5 Str
    11|+6 Dex, +5 Str
    12|+6 Dex, +6 Str[/table]


    Raptor Traits should read
    Raptor Traits: A wereraptor in raptor form gains scent and gains a bonus on all hide skill equal to half his HD. This increases to a hide bonus equal to his full HD if the wereraptor makes a full-round action to hide. At second level his Raptor Traits ability works regardless of form.
    Also I'm still not terribly keen on your choice of hide bonus. But it's balanced. That's just a flavor thing for me. If you like it, keep it.

    Raptor teamwork Should clearly state that it only functions in Raptor form. Something like "(And only while in Raptor Form)." Further, its language is still messy and unclear.

    Swift blows: Same story about clearly functioning only in hybrid form.
    The damage scales a little heavily towards the end, in fact it’s terrifying at the end, more terrifying than it should be, it seems to me.

    Don't assume you’re finished yet! With the overhaul there's always more to do.
    Also, you're lacking a L.1 Power, This would be a fine place for the Jump and Charge thing.

    Animated Object
    My first thought is: Object Power at Every level and more object powers!
    Speed increases should be an Object Power Methinks.
    I like the openess of being able to be any object within a per HD price range.

    As for 'growth' I think it should also be able to grow down.
    What if I want to play an animated Marble?
    Animated Teacup?
    An animated fly-fishhook.
    An animated stuffed Teddy Bear?
    An animated necklace?
    An animated pen-plume?
    Keep in mind that Cats are Tiny Sized, and Halflings are Small.
    Knock over is super fun.
    Hardness, in my mind, should not be fluff based, rather I feel it should follow the DR (Because that's what it basically is) rules. 1/2 HD.
    Hidden Life is fun!
    Like Never Alive. 1/week might be better.
    Distributed Consciousness: How Fun!
    Magic Item: This might be cool to have an alternate ability to allow the 'gold' per HD to be spent on being a magical Item. That way the player could be an animated... Hand of Glory... an easy way to choke that pesky mage.

    Object Power Ideas:
    Breath Weapons
    Slam Damages of different types (Slashing, Piercing)
    Appear as magical item, and have specific Aura
    Hey look, that's a Periapt of Wisdom! Ima put it on! Last words of Josef the Doomed to be Strangled.
    Swim Speeds
    Bonuses on skills like Craft.
    Inspiring Flags
    Work as a shield for someone with enhancement bonus.
    Steal like crazy from the Fiend of Possession...
    Bind people on a pin.
    Flying Books?
    Blinding Light.
    Dwarven Made (?)
    Elven Made (?)
    Halfling Made (?)
    Gnomish Made (Overly complicated, of course)
    Orcish Made (?)
    Goblin Made (Underly complicated, of course)
    Kobold Made
    Gravy Kobold Made (More tasty than Kobold Made)
    Produce Food 1/day, scales to Hero's Feast
    Scrying for Pools of water, mirrors, and crystal balls.
    Illusions for Mirrors, Kyladascopes, and other things...
    Animate a Corpse, Be a psudozombie. (A corpse is an object, after all!)
    Religious Artifact (Like Codex but for Divine Spells)
    Crystalline Resonance (Like Codex but for Psionic Powers)
    Warrior Made (Like Codex but for Maneuvers)
    Soul Crafted (Like Codex but for Incarnum)
    Ect w/ all spell casting types.
    Improved Magic Cupboard (up to 100 gp per day all non magical)
    Speech?
    Ability to hold creatures, and offer them X hours of Air. (Good with Burrow or Swim speed abilities!)
    Ability To Wield Weapons
    Ability to Wear hats (Cloths Rack)
    Ability to Manipulate objects. (If it has 'hands')
    Ability to Take control of someone wearing it (Scarf of possession!)
    Bite Attack, because a hungry treasure chest that isn't a mimic would make me run in fear.
    Alternate form for something malleable?
    Swallow Whole for things with large container space.
    Wardrobes or Make up sets that can Alter-Self/Disguise-Self on others.
    Art sets that can use Arcane Mark.
    Objects able to produce poison.
    Stuffed animals that radiate calming auras.
    High pitched deafening whistles.
    Cradle, Mobile, blanky with sleepy aura.
    Shaving kit, other knifes with sneak attack like damage.
    Animated Tools: Can always Take 10
    ~Healing Kit: Cure Wounds Spell 1/day
    ~Thieves Tools Kit: Knock as Spell 1/day

    I'm sure I can think of some more if you need it.

    I think this is the answer to the Fluff dilemma, with a bazillion options, you could be an optimized object, but you'd need to be something oddball, like a four wheeled cart, with a set of drapes nailed on, and a mirror glued to the front. At this point, if you're DM is allowing you to play this...Drapecartmirror, ask them if you can play a Kobold Divine Minion 1 MMF 3.

    Thorn
    Love Weapon of Thorns!
    Might Specifiy how it can be applied to ammunition (5 minutes per individual arrow, 5 minutes for 20, or 5 minutes for 50?)
    Is Slumbering Arrows a poison? It's ex, so its not exactly magical, so I would assume so. The thing is some classes can apply poison quicker than what is normal (A move action I think is normal), is it possible to hasten the Slumbering Shots Application?

    I'm not completely happy with Weapon of Barbs ranged feature, but that's what feedback and suggestions are for.
    How about a Dexterity penalty untill removed, and twice base die damage if removed without a heal check? Alternatively a bleeding out danger if removed without a heal check? Heal check DC scales with the Thorn? Thorns grow in the creature continually dealing minimal damage each round, until removed, which still deals damage?

    Slumbering Shots (Ex): Taking cues from the pixies, Thorns of at least third [level] learn to make sleeping arrows. Any creature [struck] by one of this arrows must succeed on a Fortitude save with a DC of 10 + 1/2 HD + Wis Mod or be affected as though by a sleep spell, regardless of HD. If the creature has unhealed non-lethal damage or the attack itself deals non-lethal damage it [receives] a -2 penalty to this save.
    Spelling errors, but small ones

    Ultroloth
    On my cue of things to do, sorry.
    Last edited by AugustNights; 2010-12-02 at 07:37 AM.
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  30. - Top - End - #90
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    Default Re: Improved Monster Classes IV

    Quote Originally Posted by ChumpLump View Post
    Animated Object
    My first thought is: Object Power at Every level and more object powers!
    Speed increases should be an Object Power Methinks.
    I like the openess of being able to be any object within a per HD price range.
    I like it. I'll move the movement speed increase to Object Powers.
    As for 'growth' I think it should also be able to grow down.
    What if I want to play an animated Marble?
    Animated Teacup?
    An animated fly-fishhook.
    An animated stuffed Teddy Bear?
    An animated necklace?
    An animated pen-plume?
    Keep in mind that Cats are Tiny Sized, and Halflings are Small.
    Knock over is super fun.
    Hardness, in my mind, should not be fluff based, rather I feel it should follow the DR (Because that's what it basically is) rules. 1/2 HD.
    Hidden Life is fun!
    Like Never Alive. 1/week might be better.
    Distributed Consciousness: How Fun!
    Magic Item: This might be cool to have an alternate ability to allow the 'gold' per HD to be spent on being a magical Item. That way the player could be an animated... Hand of Glory... an easy way to choke that pesky mage.
    You're right about the size! I'll add that.

    Hardness is actually better than DR-- it applies to magical damage too! But perhaps you're right.

    For Never Alive: I'm not sure. I'm not a big fan of 1/week powers, but if you think it's too powerful.

    I love most of your Object Power ideas, and I shall add them in.
    Dwarven Made (?)
    Elven Made (?)
    I had an awesome idea. Instead of giving and relieving them of powerful build in the growth chart, I'll make them grow/shrink in the growth chart, flat out. Dwarven Made could grant Powerful Build, and Elven Made could grant Sleight Build. (Sturdy vs. Elegant.)
    I think this is the answer to the Fluff dilemma, with a bazillion options, you could be an optimized object, but you'd need to be something oddball, like a four wheeled cart, with a set of drapes nailed on, and a mirror glued to the front. At this point, if you're DM is allowing you to play this...Drapecartmirror, ask them if you can play a Kobold Divine Minion 1 MMF 3.
    True that. Good ideas. Thanks for critiquing!

    Hope your cold feels better soon.
    Last edited by Magicyop; 2010-12-02 at 09:04 AM.
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