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    Default Psychic Warrios, and Claws of the Beast (3.5)

    are there any good builds focused on claws of the beast? i see that one only will ever have two attacks with the claws, which does seem to hold the character back a bit, yet unless i go with the TWF route i only get 3 anyway.

    i do not know how many levels we are going, but it is an ECL 6, 32 pb game. i am considering risking getting a DMG thrown at me and being a Half Minotaur Water Orc with 5 levels of PsyWar, but might go for Feral instead of half minotaur
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3SecondCultist View Post
    ...

    You're just going to start randomly setting things on fire, aren't you?
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    ...

    This entire campaign's going to become nothing but partying in a long forgotten world, isn't it?
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    Default Re: Psychic Warrios, and Claws of the Beast (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by gallagher View Post
    are there any good builds focused on claws of the beast? i see that one only will ever have two attacks with the claws, which does seem to hold the character back a bit, yet unless i go with the TWF route i only get 3 anyway.

    i do not know how many levels we are going, but it is an ECL 6, 32 pb game. i am considering risking getting a DMG thrown at me and being a Half Minotaur Water Orc with 5 levels of PsyWar, but might go for Feral instead of half minotaur
    and would it be better to go with bite of the wolf instead of claws of the beast?
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    You're just going to start randomly setting things on fire, aren't you?
    Quote Originally Posted by TechnoScrabble View Post
    ...

    This entire campaign's going to become nothing but partying in a long forgotten world, isn't it?
    At present I am playing Sir Theo Roost, who rides Ardaionn the Giant Eagle and wields the newly improved Sword of Tariel

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    Default Re: Psychic Warrios, and Claws of the Beast (3.5)

    You mean like King of Smack? That one is all about the claw-age.

    This one is easy to read. (Don't post to that thread though.)

    EDIT: What do you mean, "instead?" Use both!
    Last edited by Psyren; 2010-11-30 at 02:46 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Quote Originally Posted by gogogome View Post
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    Default Re: Psychic Warrios, and Claws of the Beast (3.5)

    You might be able to fanagle a way to do bite/1 claw/ wepon attacks.

    I think the claws specify 2 claws and you con't use wepons in those hands. but maby if you grafted a full blade to the one arm? you could do it.

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    Default Re: Psychic Warrios, and Claws of the Beast (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Me

    Something like Elan Monk 2/Psychic Warrior 5/Slayer 10/something 3

    Feats would be something like
    Monk 1: Combat Expertise (Passive Way Fighting style
    1Track
    Flaw Dodge
    Monk 2 Monastic Training (Slayer)
    3 Overchannel
    Psy War 1: Psionic Meditation
    Psy War 2: Talented
    6 Linked Power
    Psy War 5: no idea
    9 Karmic Strike
    12: Rapidstrike
    15: ExK(Metamorphosis)
    18 Improved Rapidstrike (Claws)

    Assuming fractional BAB I get 17 BAB (if the something is 3/4 BAB) or 18 (if full BAB)
    Monk 12 goodies.
    Psychic Warrior 18 Manifester level.
    A build stub I made, haven't had the opportunity to test it, but in paper it seems useful.

    Edit I forgot to add the attack routine at level 20

    Quote Originally Posted by Me again
    Greater flurry with base unarmed strike damage of a 12th level monk (or 17th if I drop money on a monks belt/tattoo) +17/+17/+17/+12/+7/+2 plus claws at +17/+17/+17/+17/+12/+12/+7/+7 (with improved rapidstrike)
    Last edited by Dusk Eclipse; 2010-11-30 at 10:37 AM.
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    Default Re: Psychic Warrios, and Claws of the Beast (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusk Eclipse View Post
    A build stub I made, haven't had the opportunity to test it, but in paper it seems useful.
    Where's your Tashatalora?

    Claws of the Beast has an annoying clause: If you attack with a manufactured weapon or another natural attack, you canít make any claw attacks in that round.

    You could bypass that with Beast Strike, though.
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    Default Re: Psychic Warrios, and Claws of the Beast (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenish View Post
    Where's your Tashatalora?

    Claws of the Beast has an annoying clause: If you attack with a manufactured weapon or another natural attack, you canít make any claw attacks in that round.

    You could bypass that with Beast Strike, though.
    :Headesk: Darn it.... thanks for pointing out that. need to shuffle feats.
    Just call me Dusk
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    Default Re: Psychic Warrios, and Claws of the Beast (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Swindle89 View Post
    You might be able to fanagle a way to do bite/1 claw/ wepon attacks.

    I think the claws specify 2 claws and you con't use wepons in those hands. but maby if you grafted a full blade to the one arm? you could do it.
    Or just use unarmed strike; it can be made with any part of the body. Elbows, knees, feet, headbutts... This is why Tashalatora King of Smack is so effective.
    Last edited by Psyren; 2010-11-30 at 10:54 AM.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Quote Originally Posted by gogogome View Post
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    Default Re: Psychic Warrios, and Claws of the Beast (3.5)

    Yeah, I don't know how many times I've had to point out that clause to people.
    Tarvek needs to die in a fire.

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    Default Re: Psychic Warrios, and Claws of the Beast (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrawn183 View Post
    Yeah, I don't know how many times I've had to point out that clause to people.
    Note they only use careful wording on spells when it nerfs melee

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    Default Re: Psychic Warrios, and Claws of the Beast (3.5)

    That clause shouldn't be needed - expecting to claw things while your hands are full (with a quarterstaff, say, or a shield) is silly.

    But then, RAW frequently is, so I'm glad they spelled it out.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Quote Originally Posted by gogogome View Post
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    Default Re: Psychic Warrios, and Claws of the Beast (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    That clause shouldn't be needed - expecting to claw things while your hands are full (with a quarterstaff, say, or a shield) is silly.

    But then, RAW frequently is, so I'm glad they spelled it out.
    the dumb part is the no other natural attacks. Saying the claws could not hold wepons should have surficed.

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    Default Re: Psychic Warrios, and Claws of the Beast (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    That clause shouldn't be needed - expecting to claw things while your hands are full (with a quarterstaff, say, or a shield) is silly.
    I see nothing silly in holding a shield and clawing someone, assuming your character has two arms, as most are wont to have.

    [Edit]: Or attacking with a sword and a claw, which the rules actually prohibits in this specific case.
    Last edited by Greenish; 2010-11-30 at 12:11 PM.
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    Default Re: Psychic Warrios, and Claws of the Beast (3.5)

    I'd go Feral Half-Minotaur Water Orc, Crusader 4/ Sanctified Mind 1/ War Mind 10/ Sanctified Mind 5. Use Martial Spirit with your Claw/Claw/Gore attack routine, and you can use Battle Leader's Charge with Pounce to get +10 damage to all of your attacks, plus an extra two rake attacks later on. You'll be able to use Expansion and Bite of the Wolf in a few levels, and be sure to get Practiced Manifester. I'd take Power Attack and Leap Attack and wear Armbands of Might, and always Power Attack for -2 for +4 damage, or +8 when Leap Attacking. This build gets full BAB and its manifester level is only behind by one, but you have to spend your skill points carefully in those first five levels to qualify for War Mind.

    You'll need max cross-class ranks in Kn: Psionics with those Crusader levels, and if you don't have at least Int 12 you'll need to leave one of your skillpoints unspent at 4th level to spend at 5th (nothing says you cannot do this), which will put you at 3.5 ranks. At Sanctified Mind 1 you get four skill points, plus that one Crusader point that buys a cross-class rank, which adds 4.5 ranks to it and puts you at the necessary 8 ranks. If your Int score has a negative modifier, you'll need to leave two more Crusader skill points unspent for each -1 Int modifier (4 points if Int 6-7, you won't get enough skill points if Int 4-5). You'll also need two ranks in Kn: History, everyone should have five ranks in Balance, you can trade Ride for Tumble as a class skill which should be at least five ranks, and you'll also want max ranks in Jump. That means you should make Int at least a +0, which can buy the following skills: Crusader 1: Balance 4, Jump 4, Tumble 4, Kn: Psionics 2; Crusader 2: Balance 5, Jump 5, Tumble 5, Kn: History 1; Crusader 3: Kn: History 2, Kn: Psionics 3, Jump 6; Crusader 4: Jump 7, Concentration 1, Kn: Psionics 3.5, one point unspent; Sanctified Mind 1: Kn: Psionics 8. With your War Mind skill points get one rank in Autohypnosis pick up four Psicraft ranks for Practiced Manifester, then max out Concentration and keep it at max ranks, and spend whatever is left in Autohypnosis.

    Your feats should be Multiattack or Combat Reflexes depending on Dex (or both with flaws), Power Attack, Leap Attack, Practiced Manifester, Linked Power, (Improved) Multiattack, Improved Natural Attack: Claws. Get Combat Expertise and Improved Trip via flaws if your Int score is high enough. Say you visited the Otyugh Hole detailed in Complete Scoundrel to get Iron Will for 3,000 gp without spending a feat on it, it's required for Sanctified Mind. Get Expansion and Bite of the Wolf, and whatever other buffs you think you'll want. Force Screen and Inertial Armor are amazing if you get a Monk's Belt, and definitely have Armbands of Might starting out.
    Last edited by Biffoniacus_Furiou; 2010-11-30 at 12:36 PM.

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    Default Re: Psychic Warrios, and Claws of the Beast (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Thread Title
    Psychic Warrios, and Claws of the Beast (3.5)
    Psychic Warios? What will Nintendo think of next?

    Back on topic, the rules on how Monk abilities and natural weapons interact are pretty vague at times, so chances are you could convince a DM to let you use monk abilities with a natural weapon, which makes Tashalatora a decent option if you're actually taking Psychic Warrior levels. That said, the build Biffoniacus_Furiou posted is sans Psychic Warrior and therefore sans Tashalatora, but quite solid. A lot of DMs are wary of both Feral and Half-Minotaur, so trying to take one or both does indeed put you at risk of flying DMGs. Tashalatora Psychic Warrior is probably safer. Also, if you plan on natural attacks, dip enough Totemist to get Chakra Bind Feet. You get two very good options--one gives you, effectively, Pounce with natural attacks (which meshes very well with the rest of Totemist)--and the other gives you bonus Sonic damage and a chance to stun on every attack in a charge. So if you can get Pounce elsewhere--a Lion Totem Barbarian dip, perhaps--I'd go with that last.
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    Default Re: Psychic Warrios, and Claws of the Beast (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenish View Post
    I see nothing silly in holding a shield and clawing someone, assuming your character has two arms, as most are wont to have.
    Even assuming the shield is strapped on your arm, you'd either need a pretty small shield or pretty long arms to bring your hand (and therefore claws) to bear.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Quote Originally Posted by gogogome View Post
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    Default Re: Psychic Warrios, and Claws of the Beast (3.5)

    The important part is that it prohibits you from using your claws in conjunction with the power that gives you a bite attack. Eventually it also is incompatable with Form of Doom as well, but the key is that it prevents you from being able to get three natural attacks early on.
    Tarvek needs to die in a fire.

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    Default Re: Psychic Warrios, and Claws of the Beast (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrawn183 View Post
    The important part is that it prohibits you from using your claws in conjunction with the power that gives you a bite attack. Eventually it also is incompatable with Form of Doom as well, but the key is that it prevents you from being able to get three natural attacks early on.
    That is true, and it sucks. So if you're using a weapon, you're stuck with Bite of the Wolf.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Quote Originally Posted by gogogome View Post
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    Default Re: Psychic Warrios, and Claws of the Beast (3.5)

    If you want natural attacks, you can Tash out Soul Manifester (Minds Eye Web Enhancement). Its a psionic class that advances 10/10 manifesting AND meldshaping. You could get in as a Monk2/Ardent1/Totemist2, or a Monk2/PsyWar4/Totemist2, the former being much better. That'll give you 12 levels of effective monk progression, 12 levels of manifester progression with access to Totem, Hands, Feet, Crown, Arms, and Shoulders binds, and if you do the Ardent chassis, you can take Expanded Knowledge at 9 to pick up Psionic Open Chakra which can be augemented via Midnight Augmentation and the Soul Manifester's augement ability to hit ML17 IIRC to open Waist and Heart? by about level 14.

    Only problem is you HAVE to mostly rely on natural attacks. You're BAB will be terrible even with fractional BAB, since Soul Manifester is only 1/2 BAB.
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    Default Re: Psychic Warrios, and Claws of the Beast (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Even assuming the shield is strapped on your arm, you'd either need a pretty small shield or pretty long arms to bring your hand (and therefore claws) to bear.
    Oh c'mon, you're just being silly. Gauntlets, punching daggers and everything work just fine, and it's not like you need a long reach for your weapon to use it with a shield.

    Gladius, for instance, typically had a blade length of 45-60 cm, according to wikipedia. I guess they had pretty long arms, since their shields weren't that small.


    And then there's the fact you can't claw and, say, use a dagger or spiked gauntlet with your other hand.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yukitsu View Post
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    Praise for avatar may be directed to Derjuin.

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    Default Re: Psychic Warrios, and Claws of the Beast (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenish View Post
    Oh c'mon, you're just being silly. Gauntlets, punching daggers and everything work just fine, and it's not like you need a long reach for your weapon to use it with a shield.

    Gladius, for instance, typically had a blade length of 45-60 cm, according to wikipedia. I guess they had pretty long arms, since their shields weren't that small.

    And then there's the fact you can't claw and, say, use a dagger or spiked gauntlet with your other hand.
    I think we're referring to different things. I was talking about claw attacks in conjunction with sword-and-board, not simply claw + shield.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Quote Originally Posted by gogogome View Post
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    Default Re: Psychic Warrios, and Claws of the Beast (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    I think we're referring to different things. I was talking about claw attacks in conjunction with sword-and-board, not simply claw + shield.
    Ah, I see. Obviously clawing someone with a hand you're holding something with would be difficult, I was just pointing out how the rule you called silly and obvious actually prevents things that do make sense (like one-handed weapon + claw).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yukitsu View Post
    I define [optimization] as "the process by which one attains a build meeting all mechanical and characterization goals set out by the creator prior to its creation."
    Praise for avatar may be directed to Derjuin.

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